GO'H National Champion

S.L.F.

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

All set out pretty clearly in the rules.

Nice

I take back Dublin marathon being greedy when I see a prize for first 10 and even money for women and the price of the t-shirts *if they did actually pay that.


Still think they should allow transfers or postponement though under certain conditions like injury or unfortunate events around family sickness etc.

jamule

Jaysus he has to milk it even if it was a sham, why would he not.

He only won because Scullion was racing Freddie and he blew up. No whinging or moaning from Scullion though.

Djoucer

Come on Chivito, you're better than what ifs.

GOH beat Scullion on the day. You can only beat those who show up on the day and GOH beat every single of one of them that was eligible for Nats.

You're actually criticising the lack of coverage of previous marathons to justify your view that GOH doesn't merit this time around. Bizarre.

S.L.F.

S.L.F. wrote: »

Nice

I take back Dublin marathon being greedy when I see a prize for first 10 and even money for women and the price of the t-shirts *if they did actually pay that.


Still think they should allow transfers or postponement though under certain conditions like injury or unfortunate events around family sickness etc.

They need to sort out the trophy for the Irish Women's Championship as well.

Chivito550

Djoucer wrote: »

Come on Chivito, you're better than what ifs.

GOH beat Scullion on the day. You can only beat those who show up on the day and GOH beat every single of one of them that was eligible for Nats.

You're actually criticising the lack of coverage of previous marathons to justify your view that GOH doesn't merit this time around. Bizarre.

Appreciate other people’s take on it. Just think the whole thing was a bit of a farce personally, and is best forgotten.

If everybody knew clearly that Freddy wasn’t eligible before the race started, then it’s fairly obvious that Scullion would have won that race.

The whole thing was a shambles.

RuMan

Chivito550 wrote: »

Appreciate other people’s take on it. Just think the whole thing was a bit of a farce personally, and is best forgotten.

If everybody knew clearly that Freddy wasn’t eligible before the race started, then it’s fairly obvious that Scullion would have won that race.

The whole thing was a shambles.

Bit OTT, some real negativity around athletics.

Don't think anyone is claiming any Irish marathoner is world class but winning a National Championship still has some merit.

Lots of other sports here where winning a national title is celebrated.

Giving a Kenyan the title in the 1st place was a shambles but it's been sorted out and we'll done GOH, 1st Irishman home and consequently National Marathon Champion.

Chivito550

RuMan wrote: »

Bit OTT, some real negativity around athletics.

Don't think anyone is claiming any Irish marathoner is world class but winning a National Championship still has some merit.

Lots of other sports here where winning a national title is celebrated.

Giving a Kenyan the title in the 1st place was a shambles but it's been sorted out and we'll done GOH, 1st Irishman home and consequently National Marathon Champion.

Winning a national title is a big deal, you’re right. It could be argued though it’s clearly not a massive deal for some in the marathon when the likes of Pollock, Seaward, Hehir opted not to run it. It’s the nature of the event though, and the big city marathons will take precedence for many. But it certainly wasn’t a particularly deep field. But fair play to Gary for running such a great PB. He got the best out of himself, but I do believe Scullion was very hard done by.

It was a shambles. No two ways about it.

kit3

Chivito550 wrote: »

Winning a national title is a big deal, you’re right. It could be argued though it’s clearly not a massive deal for some in the marathon when the likes of Pollock, Seaward, Hehir opted not to run it. It’s the nature of the event though, and the big city marathons will take precedence for many. But it certainly wasn’t a particularly deep field. But fair play to Gary for running such a great PB. He got the best out of himself, but I do believe Scullion was very hard done by.

It was a shambles. No two ways about it.

Scullion certainly knew GOH was in the race. GOH beat him fairly. As has been said before, you can only race those who are there - why the begrudgery ?

Chivito550

For what it’s worth, away from all the rubbish that has happened this week, I think GO’H’s performance was absolutely remarkable, at the age of 43, so soon after a previous PB in Berlin. With 6 to be selected in the marathon for the European Championships in the marathon next year, and with Gary now national champion, a sub 2:18 in any marathon next year should see him in the team for Berlin. Would that make him the oldest ever Irish athlete to compete in Olympics, Worlds or Europeans?

Chivito550

kit3 wrote: »

Scullion certainly knew GOH was in the race. GOH beat him fairly. As has been said before, you can only race those who are there - why the begrudgery ?

Both were running for gold. Scullion thought he had to beat Freddy, Gary didn’t think he needed to beat Freddy. Scullion probably would have run differently if he knew Freddy wasn’t in the running. Doesn’t take a genius to work this out. No begrudgery. It’s just simply unfairness. They didn’t start the race with the same information as each other.

squinn2912

Chivito550 wrote: »

kit3 wrote: »

Scullion certainly knew GOH was in the race. GOH beat him fairly. As has been said before, you can only race those who are there - why the begrudgery ?

Both were running for gold. Scullion thought he had to beat Freddy, Gary didn’t think he needed to beat Freddy. Scullion probably would have run differently if he knew Freddy wasn’t in the running. Doesn’t take a genius to work this out. No begrudgery. It’s just simply unfairness. They didn’t start the race with the same information as each other.

Didn't Scullion beat Freddy by quite a distance in a half. Surely he fancied his chances even if Freddy went out really hard

kit3

Chivito550 wrote: »

Both were running for gold. Scullion thought he had to beat Freddy, Gary didn’t think he needed to beat Freddy. Scullion probably would have run differently if he knew Freddy wasn’t in the running. Doesn’t take a genius to work this out. No begrudgery. It’s just simply unfairness. They didn’t start the race with the same information as each other.

He also had to beat Gary. Comes across as begrudgery.

Chivito550

squinn2912 wrote: »

Didn't Scullion beat Freddy by quite a distance in a half. Surely he fancied his chances even if Freddy went out really hard

I’m sure he did fancy his chances, even if the half is a totally different distance. Not really the point im trying to make though.

Scenario 1: Both Scullion and O’Hanlon know that Freddy is not eligible. Maybe Scullion tries to beat Freddy anyway, but the likely scenario is he focuses on winning the National title, doesn’t go off way too fast and die a horrible death in the final few miles.

Scenario 2: Both Scullion and O’Hanlon think that Freddy IS eligible. O’Hanlon said himself on liveline that he’d have run differently had he known Freddy was part of the national field. He’d have therefore likely have gone off more aggressively.

Either way, the misinformation had a significant bearing on how the national championship race unfolded.

All athletes should be on a level playing field, and have access to the same correct information. It is quite clear that Scullion was at a disadvantage here. I’m actually amazed that some think this is perfectly ok. It’s not. It’s thoroughly an unfair way to treat athletes before a championship race.

kit3 wrote: »

He also had to beat Gary. Comes across as begrudgery.

If he only had to beat Gary he’d have run differently. A 2:18 high runner is not the same beast as a low 2:16 guy.

As for the begrudgery, think what you like.

squinn2912

Well that is a fair point. The fact that the atheletes were the last people who were considered is poor form. I think you are directing anger/frustration towards the race directors and I understand that. Unfortunately it appears that the atheletes themselves have had to lose because of shortcomings in the communication and very late changes to rules. Has it come out why the rules were changed so late on in the first place? Knee jerk decisions rarely work out well. I've met Gary and think he's a lovely fella and couldn't be happier for him, but he, like the other runners, didn't deserve to be dragged through this will he get it/won't he get it fiasco. I have sympathy for all three who are involved.

Chivito550

squinn2912 wrote: »

Well that is a fair point. The fact that the atheletes were the last people who were considered is poor form. I think you are directing anger/frustration towards the race directors and I understand that. Unfortunately it appears that the atheletes themselves have had to lose because of shortcomings in the communication and very late changes to rules. Has it come out why the rules were changed so late on in the first place? Knee jerk decisions rarely work out well. I've met Gary and think he's a lovely fella and couldn't be happier for him, but he, like the other runners, didn't deserve to be dragged through this will he get it/won't he get it fiasco. I have sympathy for all three who are involved.

I don’t think rules were changed late on. From listening to Liveline it appears that the new rules were not communicated effectively by the AAI. That’s where the problem lies.

None of the athletes are to blame in any of this. It’s a very regrettable situation.

S.L.F.

Chivito550 wrote: »

I don’t think rules were changed late on. From listening to Liveline it appears that the new rules were not communicated effectively by the AAI. That’s where the problem lies.

None of the athletes are to blame in any of this. It’s a very regrettable situation.

I'd say poor aul Freddie probably didnt even say one word in protest and he got a right going over on FB etc.

He was probably happy out walking off into the sunset with his winnings for 4th.

Djoucer

I do agree with Chivito regarding Scullion. His race report is a great read and mentions he changed his tactics after learning Freddy was in Nats champ. So he did run his race different but it's a what if.

Which is a shame.

RuMan

Does GOH not deserve credit for asking about Freddie pre race ? Surely Scullion could have done the same if he was serious about the title. I lost the title chasing a guy who my competitor knew wasn't even in the race is a bit weak.

Chivito550

RuMan wrote: »

Does GOH not deserve credit for asking about Freddie pre race ? Surely Scullion could have done the same if he was serious about the title. I lost the title chasing a guy who my competitor knew wasn't even in the race is a bit weak.

Are you serious?

Testosterscone

Djoucer wrote: »

So he did run his race different but it's a what if.

Which is a shame.

The one thing I will say about Scullion is that he isn't afraid to go after it. This wasn't the first time he went with the pace as he has previously gone after it in London going through half way with the lead Brits on 2.12 pace only to suffer badly before he clicked his big performance this year.

Testosterscone

RuMan wrote: »

Does GOH not deserve credit for asking about Freddie pre race ? Surely Scullion could have done the same if he was serious about the title. I lost the title chasing a guy who my competitor knew wasn't even in the race is a bit weak.

Gary didn't ask, he missed the twitter post from AAI posted the night before saying freddie was eligible

jamule

Testosterscone wrote: »

The one thing I will say about Scullion is that he isn't afraid to go after it. This wasn't the first time he went with the pace as he has previously gone after it in London going through half way with the lead Brits on 2.12 pace only to suffer badly before he clicked his big performance this year.

And he did go after it. He wanted to be national champion, he felt good and went for it. He didn't seem to put out over it, which is good , because he will be back faster and stronger.

Testosterscone

jamule wrote: »

And he did go after it. He wanted to be national champion, he felt good and went for it. He didn't seem to put out over it, which is good , because he will be back faster and stronger.

It wasn't just about the title. The new rules regarding European Qualification were also on the line (sub 2.18 win of the National title secures a spot on the team) he had publicly stated that before the race as a target so he had to go after Freddie as he assumed his Qualification depended on it.

http://www.athleticsireland.ie/news/european-selection-opportunity-at-dublin-marathon

ger664

S.L.F. wrote: »

I'd say poor aul Freddie probably didnt even say one word in protest and he got a right going over on FB etc.

He was probably happy out walking off into the sunset with his winnings for 4th.

By not been Irish he surely misses out on a nice bit of change for the time bonus.

S.L.F.

ger664 wrote: »

By not been Irish he surely misses out on a nice bit of change for the time bonus.

I thought that was specifically for 'Irish' runners as in Irish citizens or is it the time rule in Ireland runners as well?

ultrapercy

Chivito550 wrote: »

I’m sure he did fancy his chances, even if the half is a totally different distance. Not really the point im trying to make though.

Scenario 1: Both Scullion and O’Hanlon know that Freddy is not eligible. Maybe Scullion tries to beat Freddy anyway, but the likely scenario is he focuses on winning the National title, doesn’t go off way too fast and die a horrible death in the final few miles.

Scenario 2: Both Scullion and O’Hanlon think that Freddy IS eligible. O’Hanlon said himself on liveline that he’d have run differently had he known Freddy was part of the national field. He’d have therefore likely have gone off more aggressively.

Either way, the misinformation had a significant bearing on how the national championship race unfolded.

All athletes should be on a level playing field, and have access to the same correct information. It is quite clear that Scullion was at a disadvantage here. I’m actually amazed that some think this is perfectly ok. It’s not. It’s thoroughly an unfair way to treat athletes before a championship race.



If he only had to beat Gary he’d have run differently. A 2:18 high runner is not the same beast as a low 2:16 guy.

As for the begrudgery, think what you like.

If my arse had been made out of choclate or as they say nowadays, being made out of choclate, Id have eaten it (eating?) Sometime whence.Its not though so hungry I am and anchored.

kit3

ultrapercy wrote: »

If my arse had been made out of choclate or as they say nowadays, being made out of choclate, Id have eaten it (eating?) Sometime whence.Its not though so hungry I am and anchored.

Chivito550

ultrapercy wrote: »

If my arse had been made out of choclate or as they say nowadays, being made out of choclate, Id have eaten it (eating?) Sometime whence.Its not though so hungry I am and anchored.

Smashing argument that. Really adds to the discussion.

Chivito550

In case others missed it, here’s Scullion’s report on the Dublin Marathon:

http://runningguidance.com/racing/dublin-marathon/

He states quite clearly his goal was to win the National title and run inside 2:18 to gain selection for Europeans, with 2:17:30 being the realistic target based on his training and current fitness. His plans changed completely when he learned of Freddy’s eligibility the night before the race, and he ran a 66 minute half from 8-21 miles to try close the gap on him, and he blew up to 6:10-6:40 mile pace in the closing stages. His race would not have panned out like this if all athletes were presented the correct information before the race.

Gary O’Hanlon was very lucky indeed.

What time was the elite's meeting at the night before?

As per his TV3 interview Gary was in bed asleep at 7pm the night before with his phone off and knew nothing of the change in rules :rolleyes:

Chivito550

[Deleted User] wrote: »

What time was the elite's meeting at the night before?

As per his TV3 interview Gary was in bed asleep at 7pm the night before with his phone off and knew nothing of the change in rules :rolleyes:

Which has eventually benefited him, in a twisted sort of way.

A sham from start to finish it was.

kit3

Chivito550 wrote: »

Which has eventually benefited him, in a twisted sort of way.

A sham from start to finish it was.

It's over

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=L0MK7qz13bU

Chivito550

kit3 wrote: »

It's over

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=L0MK7qz13bU

Good to see that some people here think it’s ok that not all competitors were on a level playing field.

While I accept Gary O’Hanlon is an incredibly popular figure among the everyday road runner, that doesn’t mean he should have an unfair advantage over a competitor.

walshb

Chivito550 wrote: »

Which has eventually benefited him, in a twisted sort of way.

A sham from start to finish it was.

The chap ran his heart out at 43 for a PB..

All the rest is ifs and buts...

kit3

Chivito550 wrote: »

Good to see that some people here think it’s ok that not all competitors were on a level playing field.

While I accept Gary O’Hanlon is an incredibly popular figure among the everyday road runner, that doesn’t mean he should have an unfair advantage over a competitor.

Not at all what I said. I just think that maybe you've exhausted ways of saying the same thing - Scullion (in his race report), while naturally disappointed, is far more pragmatic about it than you.

Chivito550

walshb wrote: »

The chap ran his heart out at 43 for a PB..

All the rest is ifs and buts...

No disputing his brilliant run.

This is an AAI issue, where some athletes are being fed incorrect information, which changes the context of the race for those athletes. For something like this to happen at a national championship event is unacceptable. Scullion has taken it in good spirits, but it is clear from his blog that the AAI tweet that Freddy was eligible changed his tactics completely, given he was going for the national title to secure the European slot. Gary is lucky he didn’t see the tweet and so had the correct information retrospectively.

The fact GOH’s victory is being celebrated in the wider media makes this all the more laughable.

You wouldn’t expect Leinster Juvenille meet to be organised with such incompetence, let alone a national championship.

walshb

Chivito550 wrote: »

The fact GOH’s victory is being celebrated in the wider media makes this all the more laughable.

You wouldn’t expect Leinster Juvenille meet to be organised with such incompetence, let alone a national championship.

It sounds like you are annoyed that he is being credited here.

Separate the two....the cock up and the celebration. They can exist on their own.

Working class heroes

walshb wrote: »

It sounds like you are annoyed that he is being credited here.

Separate the two....the cock up and the celebration. They can exist on their own.

One led, or at least contributed to, the other.

RuMan

Chivito550 wrote: »

In case others missed it, here’s Scullion’s report on the Dublin Marathon:

http://runningguidance.com/racing/dublin-marathon/

He states quite clearly his goal was to win the National title and run inside 2:18 to gain selection for Europeans, with 2:17:30 being the realistic target based on his training and current fitness. His plans changed completely when he learned of Freddy’s eligibility the night before the race, and he ran a 66 minute half from 8-21 miles to try close the gap on him, and he blew up to 6:10-6:40 mile pace in the closing stages. His race would not have panned out like this if all athletes were presented the correct information before the race.

Gary O’Hanlon was very lucky indeed.

If Sculllion had beaten GOH he'd be National Champion but he didn't so he's not.

If we're just going to indulge in speculation i'll say if a fit Paul Pollack , Mick Clohisssey and Sean Hehir were running then scullion wouldnt have got a medal so in fact Scullion was very lucky indeed !

average_runner

RuMan wrote: »

If Sculllion had beaten GOH he'd be National Champion but he didn't so he's not.

If we're just going to indulge in speculation i'll say if a fit Paul Pollack , Mick Clohisssey and Sean Hehir were running then scullion wouldnt have got a medal so in fact Scullion was very lucky indeed !

Hehir pb in dublin is 2:19:xx

Pollock would be injured.Clohisssey time not Sure for dublin?

Scullion would of taken them on in dublin

RuMan

average_runner wrote: »

Hehir pb in dublin is 2:19:xx

Pollock would be injured.Clohisssey time not Sure for dublin?

Scullion would of taken them on in dublin

Like Jim Hogan chasing Bikila in many ways.

ThebitterLemon

That was an excellent article by SS, I was really surprised that he gets absolutely no funding!

TbL

ooter

Won the Lanzarote Marathon today.

squinn2912

ooter wrote: »

Won the Lanzarote Marathon today.

What was his time? I know he took 8 mins off the record he set

Working class heroes

squinn2912 wrote: »

What was his time? I know he took 8 mins off the record he set

The fcucker beat me in a photo finish.🤔

El Caballo

squinn2912 wrote: »

What was his time? I know he took 8 mins off the record he set

2:27

Ultraman100

Working class heroes wrote: »

The fcucker beat me in a photo finish.🀔

they ran outta fotos by the time i finished..

Ultrababy

Ultraman100 wrote: »

they ran outta fotos by the time i finished..

Short on t-shirts too!;)

Ultraman100

Ultrababy wrote: »

Short on t-shirts too!;)

dont think so..tee shirts given out b4 the race

RayCun

This was all discussed at the AAI congress a few weeks ago. The minutes are out now, the relevant bit would be

During Congress 2016 the competition rule was amended to:
Title Holder Individual or Team
(to be defined as referring to top 3 finishers individual or team members in track & field, indoor, cross
country and road.)
An athlete must be a holder of, or eligible to hold an Irish Passport.
An athlete must be a member of an affiliated club on the Island of Ireland.
And, Or
An athlete must reside on the island of Ireland for a minimum of 6 consecutive months immediately prior to the relevant championship.

The Competition Committee have added the following clarification points to assist:
(i) To be able to compete in the Championship an athlete must fulfil the conditions to become a medal winner (both individual and team) as stated above.
(ii) Considering the minimum of 6 consecutive month’s residency aspect, force majeure/compassionate grounds will be considered based on application in advance of the Championship.
(iii) It is the responsibility of the athlete’s club to ensure the athlete fulfils all the conditions of eligibility to compete in the Championship. Evidence may be requested if required. Any breaches of this will leave the club liable to a penalty.