GO'H National Champion

RayCun

Testosterscone wrote: »

Either AAI were ignorant in which case there are serious issues with our governing body have no involvement in our National Championship

Is it AAI's responsibility to ask DCM which athletes they are paying for the flights of, or DCM's responsibility to send AAI a list of all athletes they are paying the flights for?
Probably neither!

Should AAI be tracking athletes to see when they leave the country? Does Valdas Dopolskas have to let them know if he goes anywhere? Who else?

Testosterscone

Hyzepher wrote: »

So if the longest you can get a visa for is 6 months then having to reside in Ireland for 6 months PRIOR to the race would make it impossible for Freddie to race for national title

Unless he ran for Ireland, then he could go where he pleases

walshb

ted1 wrote: »

€1,000 to many people is a bit much to just leave. It has not being many days. it was 2 working days. sure people are awarded Olympics medals years after events, didn't Rob Heffernan not receive a medal years after an event. should he have just turned it away?

if GOH had of known that Freddy was in the running, would he have made more of an effort? or did he feel that he had a comfortable lead and held back?

Well, sometimes it's more about manners and what is the right thing to do here. Decorum, morals and all that play a part. IMO they got it wrong. They then got it more wrong by this out of order u-turn.

Pighead

ted1 wrote: »

if GOH had of known that Freddy was in the running, would he have made more of an effort? or did he feel that he had a comfortable lead and held back?

His whole gameplan would have changed. His whole strategy for the race revolved around beating Sergiu and Stephen.

RayCun

Testosterscone wrote: »

Ah come on Ray, Freddy was at the elite meeting the night before along with Garry. The same meeting where the rules for Gary's singlet were apparently confirmed (according to himself)

Yes, but if you were there and saw Freddy at the meeting, how would you know DCM had flown him in?

average_runner

Carry on Athletics Ireland!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

average_runner

RayCun wrote: »

Is it AAI's responsibility to ask DCM which athletes they are paying for the flights of, or DCM's responsibility to send AAI a list of all athletes they are paying the flights for?
Probably neither!

Should AAI be tracking athletes to see when they leave the country? Does Valdas Dopolskas have to let them know if he goes anywhere? Who else?

Surely whoever did the paper work to enter him in the national championship would know the rules?

RayCun

ted1 wrote: »

if GOH had of known that Freddy was in the running, would he have made more of an effort? or did he feel that he had a comfortable lead and held back?

He only passed Ciobanu and Scullion in the last 5k, and he ran a PB as it was.

Duanington

Pighead wrote: »

His whole gameplan would have changed. His whole strategy for the race revolved around beating Sergiu and Stephen.

With the greatest of respect for Gary - and I was out on the course towards the end and saw first hand the effort he was putting in ( chasing down Stephen), it was immense and up there with the best I've ever seen, I highly doubt he'd have been able to go out after the group Freddy was in.

Murph_D

RayCun wrote: »

If you were the guy in DCM who decided to pay for Freddie's flight back from Kenya, would you think, "oh, better let Athletics Ireland know about this"? Probably not, you have other things to be doing, championship eligibility is between the club and AAI to sort out.

This whole thing though does make me wonder about the "ordinarily resident" criteria I was talking about earlier. If people are having trouble with "6 months continuous residence before the competition", how much harder would it be to track "183 days of the previous 365"? Who is going to track that? How would it be verified?

Well apparently the Revenue Commissioners track this kind of thing all the time with certain Irish individuals who choose to be tax exiles, so it's not an extraordinary measure.

I assume this can be verified easily enough using passport stamps and other immigration records.

Duanington

RayCun wrote: »

He only passed Ciobanu and Scullion in the last 5k, and he ran a PB as it was.

He was behind Scullion with a mile to go ....a good 10 seconds behind I would have guessed

RayCun

average_runner wrote: »

Surely whoever did the paper work to enter him in the national championship would know the rules?

I'm not following this on the radio, so I may be missing information, but it seems both his club and AAI thought he was eligible. Whether that's because they thought he had been continuously resident, or because they thought that he counted as ordinarily resident, I don't know. Or maybe both parties assumed that the other was checking :pac:

Pighead

Duanington wrote: »

With the greatest of respect for Gary - and I was out on the course towards the end and saw first hand the effort he was putting in ( chasing down Stephen), it was immense and up there with the best I've ever seen, I highly doubt he'd have been able to go out after the group Freddy was in.

Yeah, who's to know how it would have turned it out. It actually could have resulted in a worse time for him had he known that he was competing against Freddy. He does think he can go quicker than he did on Sunday though. Think he said he is injury free for the first time in years right now.

RayCun

Murph_D wrote: »

Well apparently the Revenue Commissioners track this kind of thing all the time with certain Irish individuals who choose to be tax exiles, so it's not an extraordinary measure.

I assume this can be verified easily enough using passport stamps and other immigration records.

Yeah, it would mean outsourcing the eligibility checking though - change the rule to say "eligible for an Irish passport OR has been deemed resident for tax purposes..."

ThisRegard

Hyzepher wrote: »

So if the longest you can get a visa for is 6 months then having to reside in Ireland for 6 months PRIOR to the race would make it impossible for Freddie to race for national title

Don't know about his type of visa, but with others I'm sure you can renew when in the country?

Chivito550

Pighead wrote: »

His whole gameplan would have changed. His whole strategy for the race revolved around beating Sergiu and Stephen.

No chance GOH was getting near 2:15/2:16. Freddy or no Freddy, Gary wasn’t getting within an asses roar of that sort of time.

ooter

RayCun wrote: »

Yes, but if you were there and saw Freddy at the meeting, how would you know DCM had flown him in?

Surely at least 1 person from raheny knew Freddie had gone back home?

Duanington

Pighead wrote: »

Yeah, who's to know how it would have turned it out. It actually could have resulted in a worse time for him had he known that he was competing against Freddy. He does think he can go quicker than he did on Sunday though. Think he said he is injury free for the first time in years right now.

Given that he PBd on a course that isn't quick, having PBd a few weeks previous...the trend is certainly upwards. I agree, I think he could have been in trouble going out after Freddy rather than chasing down the two lads like he did, I couldn't believe it when I heard he'd gone past Scullion, I was there with a mile to go and just thought the gap was too big.

It was a top class run, its a shame about the comments he made about Freddy afterwards ( albeit he was probably pretty emotional) and the farce around the title changing hands. Watching the comments from the masses on social media afterwards was pretty eye watering too

Pighead

Chivito550 wrote: »

If you think Gary would have run 2:15 or 2:16 you are deluded. Freddy or no Freddy, Gary wasn’t getting within an asses roar of that sort of time.

Cool your jets. As I said above, if he had known he was competing against Freddy it may well have resulted in a worse time.

Birdie Num Num

The legacy of this is born out of a typical Irish issue whereby rules are made and then tweaked, adjusted or overlooked to accommodate.

The residency issue should never have been restricted to just winning a title it should also have applied to finishing 2nd, 3rd or scoring on a team before it was changed. The singlet rule should be clear and there should be no flexibility on it for Championship races. You are either competing in team colours or not. If not you're ruled out of Championships. It's simple.

Chivito550

Pighead wrote: »

Cool your jets. As I said above, if he had known he was competing against Freddy it may well have resulted in a worse time.

Yeh tone was harsh so I got in with a ninja edit to come across a bit sounder. Too late though, you were too fast for me.

RayCun

ooter wrote: »

Surely at least 1 person from raheny knew Freddie had gone back home?

Oh, I'm sure. Did the person from Raheny talking to Athletics Ireland know that Freddie had gone back home? Apparently not!

Maybe the system needs a checkbox on the member registration page, "Is this athlete entitled to an Irish passport?" and that is flagged when championship entries are received, so that other proof of eligibility can be asked for.

Murph_D

RayCun wrote: »

Yeah, it would mean outsourcing the eligibility checking though - change the rule to say "eligible for an Irish passport OR has been deemed resident for tax purposes..."

Yes, but not necessarily. The Revenue would hardly be interested in committing resources to monitoring a runner. Freddy's prize money hardly rivals the likes of Denis O'Brien! The AI could inspect the passport themselves, or entrust the job to a solicitor or other suitably neutral legal professional, garda, parish priest, etc?

Annie get your Run

Birdie Num Num wrote: »

It's simple.

It should be simple, it seems as far from that as possible though! Personally I'd be pointing the finger of blame squarely at AI, they make the rules (and then change them), they should be responsible for ensuring both the clubs and the athletes in question (it's not like there are very many who might be affected) know about them - added to that should they not also be ensuring whoever is running the championship races is also aware.

RTE six one are on their way to interview Gary now it seems.

walshb

Tubridy hopefully doesn't get a sniff of this...

Pherekydes

Presumably Freddy is on the 'Athlete Whereabouts' system?

Like how complicated does this have to be?

Oiriallach

A lot of people have moved to Ireland from other countries in recent years and now live here "permanently", as in they work full-time here or, in the case of juvenile athletes, are in full-time education here. Several of them are active members of Irish athletics clubs. Some of these people now have Irish passports and some don't (and do not currently meet the criteria for applying for Irish citizenship).

Are those who are not entitled to hold Irish passports barred from medalling in national championships unless they have not left Ireland at any time during the six months immediately prior to the championships? It seems that that is now the case according to the last night's clarification from the AAI, which implies that "unbroken residency" is required.

Birdie Num Num

Annie get your Run wrote: »

It should be simple, it seems as far from that as possible though! Personally I'd be pointing the finger of blame squarely at AI, they make the rules (and then change them), they should be responsible for ensuring both the clubs and the athletes in question (it's not like there are very many who might be affected) know about them - added to that should they not also be ensuring whoever is running the championship races is also aware.

RTE six one are on their way to interview Gary now it seems.

That's exactly my point. It should be simple and they should make rules and stick to them and communicate them. I am not saying the rule is ideal, right or wrong. ...The singlet issue is always coming up and it should be as clear as day. You must be wearing a club singlet for Championship races and no exception but exceptions are continuously made.

RayCun

Pherekydes wrote: »

Presumably Freddy is on the 'Athlete Whereabouts' system?

Probably not. He's not eligible to represent Ireland, he's not in receipt of Irish funding... he wouldn't be in the Irish testing pool.

RayCun

Oiriallach wrote: »

A lot of people have moved to Ireland from other countries in recent years and now live here "permanently", as in they work full-time here or, in the case of juvenile athletes, are in full-time education here. Several of them are active members of Irish athletics clubs. Some of these people now have Irish passports and some don't (and do not currently meet the criteria for applying for Irish citizenship).

Are those who are not entitled to hold Irish passports barred from medalling in national championships unless they have not left Ireland at any time during the six months immediately prior to the championships? It seems that that is now the case according to the last night's clarification from the AAI, which implies that "unbroken residency" is required.

yes, that's the rule.

There are probably a lot of ineligible athletes out there, where neither they, their club, or AAI know that they are not eligible