General Rugby Discussion II

prawnsambo

rudiger2.0 wrote: »

I've never understood why they don't change the goalposts to NFL style ones with one post on the ground which is behind the try-line and bends forward.

I remember that being discussed here before. The consensus iirc, was that they were vastly more expensive to install. OK for big stadiums and clubs, but probably out of the reach of smaller clubs, schools etc. And you make a change like that, it has to be universal.

salmocab

rudiger2.0 wrote: »

I've never understood why they don't change the goalposts to NFL style ones with one post on the ground which is behind the try-line and bends forward.

I would say having it just behind the line might actually be more dangerous as defensive lines might be standing just in front of it and someone smashing into the defence could slip through and not have time to stop themselves or smash someone backwards into it. Obviously this can happen currently but the defence on the line is more often and is generally desperate stuff and if the post is off the field people will negate it in their thinking.

Squidgy Black

salmocab wrote: »

I would say having it just behind the line might actually be more dangerous as defensive lines might be standing just in front of it and someone smashing into the defence could slip through and not have time to stop themselves or smash someone backwards into it. Obviously this can happen currently but the defence on the line is more often and is generally desperate stuff and if the post is off the field people will negate it in their thinking.

NFL ones tend to be back behind the boundary line though, it'd take an almighty hit to drive someone back from the try line into the boundary line to hit the post which would have a pad around it anyways.

salmocab

Squidgy Black wrote: »

NFL ones tend to be back behind the boundary line though, it'd take an almighty hit to drive someone back from the try line into the boundary line to hit the post which would have a pad around it anyways.

Yeah I was working on the assumption that he meant the in goal area as the posts still need to be over the try line.

Eod100

blackwhite wrote: »

Looks like Pichot is throwing his toys out of the pram after failing to get the top job.

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-union/international/agustin-pichot-world-rugby-election-quits-a9511566.html


If he was truly driven by a desire to improve rugby globally then he'd know that you'll make more of a difference inside the tent, than outside p*ssing in.

Looks very much like he wanted it exactly his way, or not at all

And the price of Australia backing him was Argentina withdrawing from hosting RWC 2027

Losty Dublin

rudiger2.0 wrote: »

I've never understood why they don't change the goalposts to NFL style ones with one post on the ground which is behind the try-line and bends forward.

American Football posts were initially H shaped posts and placed at the rear of the end zone. In the mid 30's the NFL moved the posts onto their goal line encourage teams to kick more goals in an attempt to make kicked goals easier to open up scoring at games. They used single pole posts in the 60's to try and open up the end zone a little as non attacking teams were using the posts as dummy defenders, then in the 70's the posts went back out of the end zone a la college football.

So the question now may need to be this; is rugby materially affected in a negative way by the current design of goal posts and can Gridiron style posts improve the game as it is. T-shaped Gridiron posts are curved inwards so they will need to be placed in goal. Interestingly, Canadian Football still have their posts on the pitch as kicked scores are integral to their game a la rugby. Curiously, a few Gridiron clubs apparently still use similar posts to rugby. If the latter two points are correct then it strengthens the status quo.

Eod100

Not sure what Top 14 owners are at here.

Proposing 2 pools of 12 teams and 8 French teams in Champions Cup..

https://twitter.com/RugbyramaFR/status/1260615057047785474

The Lost Sheep

molloyjh wrote: »

I'm not trying to compare competitions. I'm simply saying that when you look at the number of games and the structure of them it's hard to see how they could possibly make money. They simply dont play enough. 15 SR games plus KOs & a domestic league that's running alongside the RC for around 8 weeks is not enough to sustain the game. Maybe more games with a greater focus on geographically smaller zones might help spark more interest in the likes of Aus in particular.

sometimes you have to have less to earn more. I dont see how more games would get them more money from TV, fans aren't turning up in such numbers to warrant more games. Australian rugby suffering at all levels age grade, schools etc which is having a knock on effect to viewing figures for pro game.

blackwhite wrote: »

Looks like Pichot is throwing his toys out of the pram after failing to get the top job.

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-union/international/agustin-pichot-world-rugby-election-quits-a9511566.html

If he was truly driven by a desire to improve rugby globally then he'd know that you'll make more of a difference inside the tent, than outside p*ssing in.

Looks very much like he wanted it exactly his way, or not at all

he is but to an extent you can see why. With Beaumont elected we've had 2 englishmen, an Irishman, a welshman and a Frenchman as world rugby chairman. It was a major chance to have in main role someone who can realistically say they are from a disadvantaged country in rugby terms.
Someone who could actually say they were involved from outside the bubble. Yet once again a European from the 6 nations was elected

rudiger2.0 wrote: »

I've never understood why they don't change the goalposts to NFL style ones with one post on the ground which is behind the try-line and bends forward.

cost too high. No real desire to.

Clegg

Interested to see how this unfolds. Ospreys have a number of players on dual contracts. Might be some tension over selection between club and country. But should mean some more big overseas signings. Ospreys certainly can't get any worse at least.

https://twitter.com/ospreys/status/1260615767218946048?s=19

Eod100

Clegg wrote: »

Interested to see how this unfolds. Ospreys have a number of players on dual contracts. Might be so e tension over the dual contracted players. But should mean some more big overseas signings. Ospreys certainly can't get any worse at least.

https://twitter.com/ospreys/status/1260615767218946048?s=19

Wonder what company hope to get out of it. Must think they can get decent return on their investment

pickarooney

Eod100 wrote: »

Wonder what company hope to get out of it. Must think they can get decent return on their investment

AWJs blood

blackwhite

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

he is but to an extent you can see why. With Beaumont elected we've had 2 englishmen, an Irishman, a welshman and a Frenchman as world rugby chairman. It was a major chance to have in main role someone who can realistically say they are from a disadvantaged country in rugby terms.
Someone who could actually say they were involved from outside the bubble. Yet once again a European from the 6 nations was elected

The position is a figurehead role - sole Executive power is not vested in the role - Executive power in World Rugby is shared across the Executive Committee and the World Rugby Council. At Council and Executive level the position has the same vote weighting as any other member, unless a casting vote is needed.
The Chairman can try to influence policy and direction, but so can any other member of the Executive. They don't have the power to appoint members to the Executive, and don't have the power to force any decision through.

Influence and power as Vice-Chairman isn't much less than as Chairman - he's been involved at a very senior level for quite some time, and is just throwing a strop that he didn't get the top title this time out.

The Lost Sheep

blackwhite wrote: »

The position is a figurehead role - sole Executive power is not vested in the role - Executive power in World Rugby is shared across the Executive Committee and the World Rugby Council. At Council and Executive level the position has the same vote weighting as any other member, unless a casting vote is needed.
The Chairman can try to influence policy and direction, but so can any other member of the Executive. They don't have the power to appoint members to the Executive, and don't have the power to force any decision through.

Influence and power as Vice-Chairman isn't much less than as Chairman - he's been involved at a very senior level for quite some time, and is just throwing a strop that he didn't get the top title this time out.

I know the role doesnt have that power but as the chair of the role and as a figurehead it can help lead change.
Yes hes thrown a strop but it was an opportunity to have the main role from somewhere new. For the first time not from one of the 6 nations and it's from a country that up until 20 years ago could have been considered tier2
Understandable for a lot of frustration that the man elected was yet another man from one of the 5 nations

ScrubsfanChris

RugbyWorld did a twitter poll on making the post "NFL style"
It was a pretty unanimous no :pac:

Nothing wrong with the way they are now, it's just another quirk of the game. Like being able to score a try without actually being on the pitch. LINK

Eod100

EPCR looking into 24 team competition for next season and this season's final to be played in October.

https://twitter.com/RuaidhriOC/status/1260964691213520901

Buer

I assume if they're going to have 24 teams, it would be 8 pools of 3? I'm not sure how that would be played over 8 weekends though. That would be 4 pool games followed by 3 knockouts, reducing the current format by 2 matches and partially facilitating the completion of this season's competition.

Burkie1203

Buer wrote: »

I assume if they're going to have 24 teams, it would be 8 pools of 3? I'm not sure how that would be played over 8 weekends though. That would be 4 pool games followed by 3 knockouts, reducing the current format by 2 matches and partially facilitating the completion of this season's competition.

Home and away QFs.

Given the volume of rugby that everyone seems determine to squeeze in, this is bizarre. The determination to finish this season means Europe next season would hold 11 weekends so some teams will inevitably play games thru all international windows to fulfil domestic fixture lists.

I wonder if the 8 teams from pro14 will include teams from all 4 European unions

Eod100

With 8 teams from each league, does that mean those leagues won't be finished and European places sorted by whoever is top 8 and top 4 for Pro14?

Burkie1203

Eod100 wrote: »

With 8 teams from each league, does that mean those leagues won't be finished and European places sorted by whoever is top 8 and top 4 for Pro14?

Pro14 still talking about BCD games in a few months before a grand final. So nothing determined yet

Podge_irl

Buer wrote: »

I assume if they're going to have 24 teams, it would be 8 pools of 3? I'm not sure how that would be played over 8 weekends though. That would be 4 pool games followed by 3 knockouts, reducing the current format by 2 matches and partially facilitating the completion of this season's competition.

You would still need 6 weekends for pools of 3 to play 4 matches.

Burkie1203

Podge_irl wrote: »

You would still need 6 weekends for pools of 3 to play 4 matches.

4 pools of 6. 5 games plus knockout QF SF Final

Or else the old format 6 pools of 4. Pool winners plus 2 best RU.

salmocab

It would seem to me that reducing the amount of games given what they’re trying to jam in would be the thing to do.

Burkie1203

salmocab wrote: »

It would seem to me that reducing the amount of games given what they’re trying to jam in would be the thing to do.

TV money. That's what they are chasing especially if games are BCD. Everyone is going to want their slice of the pie

salmocab

Burkie1203 wrote: »

TV money. That's what they are chasing especially if games are BCD. Everyone is going to want their slice of the pie

Yeah I get that but there are only so many weekends, it’s a finite resource. They want to finish up this years competitions one way or another including the 6N play all of next years fixtures and still do a Lions tour. There just aren’t enough weekends for all that. Something has to give.

Burkie1203

salmocab wrote: »

Yeah I get that but there are only so many weekends, it’s a finite resource. They want to finish up this years competitions one way or another including the 6N play all of next years fixtures and still do a Lions tour. There just aren’t enough weekends for all that. Something has to give.

4 pools of 6 = 5 games followed by QF SF Final
Thats the only way 8 weekends works unless

Cut to 16 teams. 4 pools of 4. Pool winners into SFs

Or 20 teams. 4 pools of 5. 4 pool games followed by home and away QF, a SF and final


6 pools of 4 = 6 games followed by QF SF Final

8 pools of 3 means weekends where some teams dont play. So not viable.


The logistics of this will be interesting regardless. How will Match officials, TV crews, match squads travel to games.


If Pro14 gets back for 20/21 season all games will be reffed by local officials most probably

irishbucsfan

6 pools of 4, home or away. Top 2 teams qualify from each. Top 4 seeds get a bye.

Seeds 5-12 play in second round.

Seeds 1-4 play winners of those in quarter final

Semi final

Final

That’s 7 weekends if they need a rush job. Send em my number, I’m giving it away for free.

Panda Killa

World rugby has cancelled all international games in July

b.gud

I think all the competitions insistence on getting last seasons games played out is quickly becoming unmanageable.

I decided to take a look at it from the perspective of an Irish plater and the potential games they could play in a season in a regular season it would look something like this

Competition| Regular season games| Knock out games
Pro14| 21 | 3
Champions Cup| 6 | 3
November internationals| 3|
6 Nations| 5|


Total 35 + 6

Based on rumours and proposals here's what the 2020/21 season could look like for the same player

Competition| Regular season games| Knock out games
2020 Pro14 | 2 | 1*
2021 Pro14| 21 | 3
2020 Champions Cup| 0 | 3
2021 Champions Cup| 4 | 3
November internationals| 3|
2020 6 Nations| 2|
2021 6 Nations| 5|


* The Pro 14 rumours have been a bit all over but I took this number as being base on 2 inter-pros and a final that have been previously rumoured

Total 40 + 10

That is a huge jump in terms of strain on a player, not to mention the question of when the f**k are all these games going to be played.

I don't have a solution for how to fix this and I understand that all teams and competitions are suffering financially which is why they are trying to get games played but I think at a certain point world rugby are going to have to step in and say look guys these are extraordinary times and you are all going to have to give way a bit

salmocab

b.gud wrote: »

I think all the competitions insistence on getting last seasons games played out is quickly becoming unmanageable.

I decided to take a look at it from the perspective of an Irish plater and the potential games they could play in a season in a regular season it would look something like this

Competition| Regular season games| Knock out games
Pro14| 21 | 3
Champions Cup| 6 | 3
November internationals| 3|
6 Nations| 5|


Total 35 + 6

Based on rumours and proposals here's what the 2020/21 season could look like for the same player

Competition| Regular season games| Knock out games
2020 Pro14 | 2 | 1*
2021 Pro14| 21 | 3
2020 Champions Cup| 0 | 3
2021 Champions Cup| 4 | 3
November internationals| 3|
2020 6 Nations| 2|
2021 6 Nations| 5|


* The Pro 14 rumours have been a bit all over but I took this number as being base on 2 inter-pros and a final that have been previously rumoured

Total 40 + 10

That is a huge jump in terms of strain on a player, not to mention the question of when the f**k are all these games going to be played.

I don't have a solution for how to fix this and I understand that all teams and competitions are suffering financially which is why they are trying to get games played but I think at a certain point world rugby are going to have to step in and say look guys these are extraordinary times and you are all going to have to give way a bit

Did you miss finishing last years 6N?
Sorry I misread your post, it’s madness though.

MarinersBlues

The international game must take precedence.

Scrap the 2020 champions cup and pro14.
Carry over the international games and scrap the extra derbies in the pro14.

That's a start, and only works if the sesaon starts in September