JFK Files

The Nal wrote: »

Nope. He had contact with them, mainly around business dealings. As did hundreds of successful businessmen. The jury found him not guilty in under an hour. It was a joke.

Nope. Thats the address Oswald had stamped on them. Which was Carlos Bringuiers old office address, which is why Oswald put it on there, to annoy Bringuier, to provoke him to hit him so to gain sympathy from the Fair Play for Cuba Committee. We've already covered this.

The Bannister, Ferrie, Shaw link is all Garrison. And all widely refuted. "The whole thing was silly" according to Mark Lane.

Garrisons case was based almost entirely on Perry Russo (that one witness I assume you're referring to) who admitted to lying.

"I then asked him was Clay Shaw at this party, he replied do you want to know the truth, I stated yes, he said I don't know if he was there or not. "

Actually the court case lasted over a month, i believe? The Jury took an hour to allow him to go free. From what i know the verdict was they believed Jim Garrision had proven a 'conspiracy' but had not proven beyond all doubt Clay Shaw was guilty or knowingly was part of the conspiracy to kill John Kennedy. Unfortunately a News reporter broke the news early of an investigation and this forced Jim Garrision to bring Shaw to court early. If given more time he could have unraveled the entire thing. Is not refuted there is plenty of eyewitnesses who saw Oswald, Ferrie, Oswald even Ruby together. The Warren Commission just disbelieved everyone and just left it at that.

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

David Ferrie was murdered just seven days after the news Jim Garrison was investigating him. Innocent men don't commit suicide or worse get someone to murder them.

Theres absolutely no evidence for that. He died of an aneurysm, possibly accelerated by stress.

Or are the coroners in on it too?

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

I remember reading they did not show the rifle or identify till many hours later., You see the timeline outlined here with this link, the carcano explanation was a day later.
https://kennedysandking.com/john-f-kennedy-articles/669

OK but you said 24 hours? Whats happened to that assertion?

There are pictures and video taken of it on the day. Within a couple of hours. Which have been analysed thoroughly.

THE HSCA:

Over the years, skepticism has arisen as to whether the rifle found in the depository by Boone is the same rifle that was delivered to the Warren Commission and is presently stored in the National Archives. The suspicion has been based to some extent on allegations that police officers who first discovered the rifle identified it as a 7.5 millimeter German Mauser. (77) The controversy was intensified by the allegation that various photographs of the rifle, taken at different times, portray inconsistencies with respect to the proportions of the various component parts. (78)

To resolve the controversy, the committee assembled a wide range of photographs of the rifle: a police photograph taken where it was found in the depository; a motion picture film taken by a television station showing the rifle when it was found by the police; a series of photographs of a police officer carrying the rifle from the depository; photographs taken as the rifle was carried through the halls of Dallas Police Department; and photographs taken later by the FBI and Dallas Police Department. (79)

The examination by committee photographic consultants determined that all photographs were of the same rifle. Both a study of proportions and a comparison of identifying marks indicated that only one rifle was involved. (80)

Page 51 here

https://www.archives.gov/research/jfk/select-committee-report/part-1a.html

Tipsy McSwagger

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

David Ferrie was murdered just seven days after the news Jim Garrison was investigating him. Innocent men don't commit suicide or worse get someone to murder them.

It's blatant obvious you are getting all your info from the movie JFK.

The Nal wrote: »

Yeah at a glance to a non expert but it was confirmed very quickly, ie within the hour, that it was a Carcano. This isn't up for debate.

Where are you getting this 24 hours thing from?

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I remember reading they did not show the rifle or identify till many hours later., You see the timeline outlined here with this link, the carcano explanation was a day later.
https://kennedysandking.com/john-f-kennedy-articles/669

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

It proven Clay Shaw was a CIA employee.

Nope. He had contact with them, mainly around business dealings. As did hundreds of successful businessmen. The jury found him not guilty in under an hour. It was a joke.

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Even Oswald Free Cuba leaflets got printed right next door to Guy Bannister office.

Nope. Thats the address Oswald had stamped on them. Which was Carlos Bringuiers old office address, which is why Oswald put it on there, to annoy Bringuier, to provoke him to hit him so to gain sympathy from the Fair Play for Cuba Committee. We've already covered this.

The Bannister, Ferrie, Shaw link is all Garrison. And all widely refuted. "The whole thing was silly" according to Mark Lane.

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

What did Garrision do wrong?

Garrisons case was based almost entirely on Perry Russo (that one witness I assume you're referring to) who admitted to lying.

"I then asked him was Clay Shaw at this party, he replied do you want to know the truth, I stated yes, he said I don't know if he was there or not. "

Tipsy McSwagger

branie2 wrote: »

Oswald wasn't given a nitrate test to see if he had used the rifle.

From my post 352 where I shut a certain poster up. And yes LHO was given a test to see if he fired a weapon that day.

Well you can’t get nitrates on your skin from firing a rifle. This is because there is no gap between the chamber and the barrel of a rifle where gasses can escape and thus stick to skin. On the other hand there is a gap between barrel and cylinder on a revolver and Oswald had a positive result of firing a revolver recently, the one he shot Officer Tippit with.

branie2 wrote: »

And Clay Shaw

David Ferrie was murdered just seven days after the news Jim Garrison was investigating him. Innocent men don't commit suicide or worse get someone to murder them.

branie2

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

What did Garrision do wrong? It proven Clay Shaw was a CIA employee. Eyewitnesses saw him least 1 time with Oswald, just not enough evidence there to convict him. Oswald was spotted with David Ferrie and Guy Banister numerous times. Even Oswald Free Cuba leaflets got printed right next door to Guy Bannister office.

Same building.

And Clay Shaw

The Nal wrote: »

A few of the links youve posted

Which ones?

The Nal wrote: »

Don't bother, really. You're going down a black hole. Theres nothing there. None of Garrisons stuff is worth it. Even lunatic CTs ignore what Garrison did now.

What did Garrision do wrong? It proven Clay Shaw was a CIA employee. Eyewitnesses saw him least 1 time with Oswald, just not enough evidence there to convict him. Oswald was spotted with David Ferrie and Guy Banister numerous times. Even Oswald Free Cuba leaflets got printed right next door to Guy Bannister office.

Same building.

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

What not working?

A few of the links youve posted

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

nope. still not working

What not working?

branie2 wrote: »

Oswald wasn't given a nitrate test to see if he had used the rifle.

The smoking gun is the bullet.

This is the Carcano bullet hitting the wrist with bone. This is ignoring all the other injuries sustained. The bullet cap is completely shattered. How can this bullet be the same bullet that hit Kennedy and Connolly?

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Here is the two rifles side by side with each.

Mauser 7.65 rifle with no scope. Rifle at the police station with scope.

nope. still not working

branie2

Oswald wasn't given a nitrate test to see if he had used the rifle.

Here is the two rifles side by side with each.

Mauser 7.65 rifle with no scope. Rifle at the police station with scope.

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ohnonotgmail wrote: »

unfortunately they were never stamped 7.65 mauser on the barrel so we are back to square one.

Don't bother, really. You're going down a black hole. Theres nothing there. None of Garrisons stuff is worth it. Even lunatic CTs ignore what Garrison did now.

I found a mauser variant that looks a little like a carcano (though considerable longer)

unfortunately they were never stamped 7.65 mauser on the barrel so we are back to square one.

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

You're a person who is clearly in denial. You can't even accept Connolly testimony you're a lost cause. There is no timeline when the rifle was shown to the News Reporters and onlookers. Do you not know a Carcano rifle and Mauser resemble each other on first look to a layman. We would have to look over this rifle over to be sure it was not a Mauser they are showing off, anyways either way you have yet to explain how Police officers can mistake identifying markings on the rifle they found? The Warren Commission own ballistic experts disagree with their findings, but this is the fault of Mark Lane and conspiracy minded people is this your belief. Nobody has replicated the magic bullet theory. You're peddling lies. According to you doctors who operated on Kennedy, the Ballistic experts, the eyewitnesses and police officers got it wrong, we should just trust the panel of politicians who wrote the Warren Commission report instead?

You're rambling, Im presenting fact that you're ignoring.

Do you really believe thats a Mauser they're holding up in the police station a couple of hours after? There is a timeline so thats about 4 major things you've gotten very wrong in the same amount of posts. Basic stuff. It was on TV that day for a start. Not 24 hours later.

So according to you, it said "Mauser" or whatever on the barrel in the TSBD, but didn't in the police station? Are there 3 rifles now? Because thats 100% a Carcano they have in the picture I posted. No markings on the barrel.

Heres the same rifle being taken out of the TSBD earlier that day in front of dozens of random witnesses.

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Now look at the rifle the guy at the police station is holding up in the air. If you put a scope on the Mauser it would resemble the gun shown.

Yeah at a glance to a non expert but it was confirmed very quickly, ie within the hour, that it was a Carcano. This isn't up for debate.

Where are you getting this 24 hours thing from?

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

your image link is broken.

One other thing you need to explain. If the rifle used was a 7.65 mauser how were the rounds used 6.5?

They must've planted the gun but forgot to plant the correct rounds. And hoped that the bullets couldn't be identified. For a conspiracy this size they didn't do the basics well. Now we have three rifles.

See this is where CTs fall apart. Not a shred of evidence. And then they ignore facts when presented with them and move on to something else. "Oh ...but. but.... the doctor said this....., errr.... Clay Shaw......."

your image link is broken.

One other thing you need to explain. If the rifle used was a 7.65 mauser how were the rounds used 6.5?

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

a blind man wouldn't confuse them

This is a Mauser 7.65 top and Oswald rifle alleged rifle below.

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Now look at the rifle the guy at the police station is holding up in the air. If you put a scope on the Mauser it would resemble the gun shown.

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

You're a person who is clearly in denial. You can't even accept Connolly testimony you're a lost cause. There is no timeline when the rifle was shown to the News Reporters and onlookers. Do you not know a Carcano rifle and Mauser resemble each other on first look to a layman. We would have to look over this rifle over to be sure it was not a Mauser they are showing off, anyways either way you have yet to explain how Police officers can mistake identifying markings on the rifle they found? The Warren Commission own ballistic experts disagree with their findings, but this is the fault of Mark Lane and conspiracy minded people is this your belief. Nobody has replicated the magic bullet theory. You're peddling lies. According to you doctors who operated on Kennedy, the Ballistic experts, the eyewitnesses and police officers got it wrong, we should just trust the panel of politicians who wrote the Warren Commission report instead?

a blind man wouldn't confuse them

The Nal wrote: »

I

More Jim Garrison madness. The wackiest of the wacky. Even Mark Lane said that. Really not even worth discussing.

You've still ignored the JFK bullet wound pic, the bullet wipe, the bullet yaw wound to Connolly amongst other things. You have no interest in acknowledging anything that doesn't fit in with your tremendously broad and vague conspiracy theories. You're literally ignoring fact to suit yourself.

You're a person who is clearly in denial. You can't even accept Connolly testimony you're a lost cause. There is no timeline when the rifle was shown to the News Reporters and onlookers. Do you not know a Carcano rifle and Mauser resemble each other on first look to a layman. We would have to look over this rifle over to be sure it was not a Mauser they are showing off, anyways either way you have yet to explain how Police officers can mistake identifying markings on the rifle they found? The Warren Commission own ballistic experts disagree with their findings, but this is the fault of Mark Lane and conspiracy minded people is this your belief. Nobody has replicated the magic bullet theory. You're peddling lies. According to you doctors who operated on Kennedy, the Ballistic experts, the eyewitnesses and police officers got it wrong, we should just trust the panel of politicians who wrote the Warren Commission report instead?

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

The percentage you have come up with too high. I have watched numerous JFK tv and documentary films over the years. Saw Eyewitnesses interviewed by newsman and reporters, and many of them were asked,’ how many shots you hear? While I agree the majority of eyewitnesses heard at least 3 shots,’ about 40 per cent of the eyewitnesses heard 4 shots or more. I would say the statistic is lot closer to 60%-40%

Its been compiled. By people who have examined every witness. Not just someone whos watched a few documentaries. The number is 81%. The number of people who heard 4 shots is 5%.

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Disingenuous of you to say he was not sure his always confident he was not shot with the same bullet. Please don’t be saying things that are not true!

Where did I say that? I said he wasn't sure about the number of shots or which one he was hit with.

Did you not watch his interviews? Like the ones I posted? Or his testimony to the WC? He says hes not sure, repeatedly.

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Connolly, does not believe the same bullet could have hit him and Kennedy.
The Zaprauder home video,, appears to show a second or two delay between the rifle shots.

So we're taking the opinion of a man who had his back to the president (the worst view in the plaza) and was shot himself over hard facts. They react at the same time.

And just to really prove the point, heres Myers model being proof tested.

Hint - hes spot on.

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

The four policemen first on the scene find a Mauser 7.65 rifle. There is no reports of finding a Carcano Italian made rifle at the scene. The rifle change occurred many hours (24 hours later) after Oswald was captured as a suspect.

Ill ask again, how do you explain the Carcano being held up in the TSBD on TV and the Carcano being paraded through the police station within a couple of hours of the shooting? Some sort of time travel or Men in Black thing?

Here it is. This is not a Mauser. This is a Carcano. A couple of hours after the assassination. Are you saying thats a Mauser?!

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

The Warren Commission own ballistic experts could not at any time replicate the magic bullet damage. The WC ballistic experts strongly disagreed the bullet found suspiciously on a stretcher at Parkland Hospital (with no blood on the bullet) was the bullet that caused the damage to Connolly and Kennedy.
We even have photographs of the tests and the damage to the bullets. So the bullet that was recovered at Parkland Hospital was not fired that day.

The Warren Commission is gospel when it suits you isnt it? :rolleyes:

Its been replicated several times since and comes out close to pristine. As below, something else Ive posted that you haven't bothered to watch.

From 25 mins.

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Never mind their denial Jack Ruby knew Oswald. Eyewitnesses have come forward even Oswald best friend revealed Oswald knew Jack Ruby and was seen hanging out with Guy Bannister, David Ferrie and Ruby at local hangouts.

More Jim Garrison madness. The wackiest of the wacky. Even Mark Lane said that. Really not even worth discussing.

You've still ignored the JFK bullet wound pic, the bullet wipe, the bullet yaw wound to Connolly amongst other things. You have no interest in acknowledging anything that doesn't fit in with your tremendously broad and vague conspiracy theories. You're literally ignoring fact to suit yourself.

This is the supposed movement of the bullet. U turning, different directions that's some bullet.

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This is the magic bullet in a standing position. There is a slight chip at the front, but noway this bullet could have caused 7 wounds and remain in this condition.

The Nal wrote: »

Thats not false. Thats correct. 81% of people heard three shots.

You're stuck in The Warren Commission and Rush to Judgement in 1966. 51 years of research has happened since. Read up man!

The percentage you have come up with too high. I have watched numerous JFK tv and documentary films over the years. Saw Eyewitnesses interviewed by newsman and reporters, and many of them were asked,’ how many shots you hear? While I agree the majority of eyewitnesses heard at least 3 shots,’ about 40 per cent of the eyewitnesses heard 4 shots or more. I would say the statistic is lot closer to 60%-40%

Latest stats we have where the shots came from. Stephen Galanor compiled eyewitness accounts, from this his learned 52 eyewitnesses heard shots come from the front of the motorcade. Richard Charnin 88 eyewitnesses said the Grassy Knool. Skeptic John Adams even agrees he found 33 eyewitness that said shots came from the front of the car. The number of eyewitnesses who said they heard shots come from the Texas school Book Depository is also high. What we got is different locations where the shooting happened!

The Nal wrote: »

Nope, you're wrong. Again. Connolly describes 3 shots, the 2nd only because he felt it being hit in the back.

"It is not conceivable to me that I could have been hit by the first bullet, and then I felt the blow from something which was obviously a bullet, which I assumed was a bullet, and I never heard the second shot, didn't hear it. I didn't hear but two shots. I think I heard the first shot and the third shot."

Here he is on his hospital bed describing 3 shots.
And here he is talking about it years later.

Connolly basically, wasn't sure. A man who has just been shot isn't going to be reliable for details.

Connolly, does not believe the same bullet could have hit him and Kennedy.
The Zaprauder home video,, appears to show a second or two delay between the rifle shots. Kennedy was hit first then a pause then Connolly was hit.
End of the day, we know for a fact he does not believe in the single bullet theory explanation, the cornerstone of this case against Oswald.

If a bullet missed and two bullets hit Kennedy and one bullet hit Connolly. This means literally, no dispute can be made there was 4 shots, 2 guns and 2 shooters? Connolly said he reacted to the sound, the noise of hearing a rifle shot! Disingenuous of you to say he was not sure his always confident he was not shot with the same bullet. Please don’t be saying things that are not true!

The Nal wrote: »

Explain a couple of things to me:

1. The bullet wipe on the rear of JFKs jacket. Impossible unless its the first surface hit.
2. The entry wound to Connollys back (and jacket) from a bullet in yaw. Impossible unless its the 2nd object hit. Bullets don't enter sideways unless they've just exited something. Thats when they tumble.
3. The squeeze on CE399 which is consistent with above, entering Connolly going sideways, slightly pancaking the bullet.

The four policemen first on the scene find a Mauser 7.65 rifle. There is no reports of finding a Carcano Italian made rifle at the scene. The rifle change occurred many hours (24 hours later) after Oswald was captured as a suspect.

The Warren Commission own ballistic experts could not at any time replicate the magic bullet damage. The WC ballistic experts strongly disagreed the bullet found suspiciously on a stretcher at Parkland Hospital (with no blood on the bullet) was the bullet that caused the damage to Connolly and Kennedy.
We even have photographs of the tests and the damage to the bullets. So the bullet that was recovered at Parkland Hospital was not fired that day.

Warren Commission bullet Tests/ Exhibit.
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This is a picture of a Carcano bullet when it impacted a wrist with bone.

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The fragments you posted alongside the Magic bullet. Those fragments did not come from the Magic bullet they are fragments removed from Connolly body.

The Magic bullet that allegedly hit Kennedy and Connolly is pictured here. Pristine condition.

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Warren Commission never interviewed key witnesses and never called them to testify. We also know they have ignored what their experts told them about the magic bullet theory..Never mind their denial Jack Ruby knew Oswald. Eyewitnesses have come forward even Oswald best friend revealed Oswald knew Jack Ruby and was seen hanging out with Guy Bannister, David Ferrie and Ruby at local hangouts.

Next we have the Doctors at Parkland Hospital who operated on Kennedy. All observed a wound near the throat of Kennedy. Years later even after the Warren Commission report came out, Dr Crenshaw still maintains the wound he saw can only came from the front not the back. This clearly is true. When we know the Warren Commission deliberately moved the back wound from its original position/autopsy lower back to a higher position near the neck area. This is clear tampering with evidence.

Are Am Eye

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

False. Even Connolly thinks there was a 4 shots if my math is right!

No it's not false. 80% of witnesses at the scene heard three shots.