Home Generator

bustopher

The info below is taken from the blurb on the Champion dual generator (see their link in previous post). It appears that their machine, at least, is much much more efficient on LPG than petrol!!


Up to 10 hours run time at 50% load (Petrol)
Up to 23 hours run time 50% load (LPG)

So the Champion LPG is much cheaper and more efficient than the market leader ie Honda. The remaining questions are reliability (Champion offers 3yr warranty) and noise.

TeaBagMania

Another LPG positive is that its clean burning so you don't get that exhaust smell like you do with petrol.

Am a bit surprised that LPG in Ireland is a bit less expansive than the states.

Less embodied energy than traditional dinosaur squeezings.
United Statians are fracking their heritage...big business.

gctest50

bustopher wrote: »

Apart from the significant up front strain on funds the break even on the Honda is 1,240 hours..............

The Honda is an inverter generator though, when you only have a small load on it, it will reduce rpm - less noisy

You can also chain two of them together for more power :

Water John

Whilst I favour LPG, you misinterpret the figures by thinking you can compare run time.
Their is no co-relation between the petrol tank and the LPG cylinder capacity.

bustopher

Water John wrote: »

Whilst I favour LPG, you misinterpret the figures by thinking you can compare run time.
Their is no co-relation between the petrol tank and the LPG cylinder capacity.

Tks John, you're spot on.

Champion says that running @50% it will use 15 ltrs in 10 hrs. At €1.30 /ltd = €1.95/hr

Running @50% it will use 19kg gas in 23hrs. Cost €45 or €1.95/hr.

So running costs are not as previously stated. Once John thanks for pointing this out

CJhaughey

I'd wager that the Champion is using a Chinese clone (Loncin) of the Honda GX200 engine, the specs are the same.

Water John

Thanks for doing the sums, bustopher.

bustopher

CJhaughey wrote: »

I'd wager that the Champion is using a Chinese clone (Loncin) of the Honda GX200 engine, the specs are the same.

regarding the quality of the output the Champion sales blurb states that they use: "Patented volt guard system installed to protect spikes and surges on appliances & equipment." Does anyone know how this compares to an inverter ?

I have not received a reply from Greengear as to how they do it - email sent last Wed.

bustopher

bustopher wrote: »

Does anyone know how this compares to an inverter ?

The inverter will take the alternator phases, rectify them, filter it and then inverter and regulate it, much like a double conversion UPS.
Much cleaner powah, much more expensive to do. It doesn't have to suppress transients because it doesn't make any.

CJhaughey

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

The inverter will take the alternator phases, rectify them, filter it and then inverter and regulate it, much like a double conversion UPS.
Much cleaner powah, much more expensive to do. It doesn't have to suppress transients because it doesn't make any.

It doesn't sound like an inverter genset, sounds to me like an Auto Voltage Regulator which is a step up from a basic capacitor genset in that it will control voltage wobbles but not as well as an inverter.
If it was an Inverter type it would advertise itself as an Inverter.
AVR is ok though.

my3cents

CJhaughey wrote: »

It doesn't sound like an inverter genset, sounds to me like an Auto Voltage Regulator which is a step up from a basic capacitor genset in that it will control voltage wobbles but not as well as an inverter.
If it was an Inverter type it would advertise itself as an Inverter.
AVR is ok though.

Anyone wanting to run anything sensitive like a computer should be running it off a UPS anyway, so when the mains goes down the UPS is swapped over to be powered by the genny.

I've had the "pleasure" of watching burning computers being thrown out of a window when powered by a badly regulated genny in a power cut. I say pleasure as I'd warned the manager not to do it but he went ahead against my advice.

Depends on the UPS topography. a line interactive one won't filter an iota.
UPS have a higher quiescent than battery inverters and a lot of them don't like islanded starting.

bustopher

Vokera (gas boiler manufacturer) Technical Dept, says that none of their boilers will run off an inverter and that it has to be 230V, 50HZ mains voltage.

Any views on this?

gctest50

They don't know what kind of an inverter someone will use so best to say nope.

The flame failure setup might be bothered by an iffy one

Nekarsulm

https://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/Stephlll-Diesel-Generator-5-KVA-230-115-Volt-Sockets-Lister-Petter-Engine/352209847934?hash=item520157c67e:g:s10AAOSwe2FZvrR4

Keep your eyes open for one of these. A gallon of green diesel will run it for 5 or 6 hours, and it will last for decades, unlike your typical Chinese Honda clone.

Not suitable for computers etc I would imagine....

knipex

bustopher wrote: »

Vokera (gas boiler manufacturer) Technical Dept, says that none of their boilers will run off an inverter and that it has to be 230V, 50HZ mains voltage.

Any views on this?

Thats because the motors, are designed to run at 50hz.

standard "Invertors" are designed to vary the frequency to give speed control. Not a good idea with a burner.

As for the clean power argument for computers and electronics.

Item's are no where near as fussy as they used to be..

Most stuff now runs on DC, ie it takes the incoming power, transforms it and rectifies it.

Even my TV has and external brick.. Most quality PC PSU's even budget ones would have overvoltage protection built in

http://www.komplett.ie/fortron-source-fsp400-60apn-bulk/10020616/details.aspx

Without plowing the budget you get evem more protection

http://www.komplett.ie/fsp-hyper-500w/80047773/details.aspx


Unless you have massive uncontrollable spikes you should be fine.

If you have AVR then you should be good to go for 99.9% of applications.

An invertor generator, especially a small ones will double or treble in price of AVR..

2011

knipex wrote: »

standard "Invertors" are designed to vary the frequency to give speed control. Not a good idea with a burner.

An inverter changes DC to AC. Some inverters are designed so that they can vary the frequency of the output such as those in a variable speed drive. This does not mean that inverters can not provide a fixed frequency output, in fact they do exactly that in UPS units.

knipex

2011 wrote: »

An inverter changes DC to AC. Some inverters are designed so that they can vary the frequency of the output such as those in a variable speed drive. This does not mean that inverters can not provide a fixed frequency output, in fact they do exactly that in UPS units.

No argument there but to 95% of people, especially electricians, techs etc people mention inverter and the first thing they will think frequency control or speed control.

Of the other 5% most will think of the power investors in maplin or Halfords designed to run off a car battery..

2011

knipex wrote: »

No argument there but to 95% of people, especially electricians, techs etc people mention inverter and the first thing they will think frequency control or speed control.

Perhaps, but when the context is generators a fixed frequency is the required output

bustopher

bustopher wrote: »

Technical Dept, says that none of their boilers will run off an inverter and that it has to be 230V, 50HZ mains voltage.

Inverters produce 230VAC 50hz. The higher ends ones will be cleaner than mains.

PS don't buy inverters in Halfords or Maplins...muck. ...extortionate muck...

I've two inverters one of which is "having a rest". That power condition. Meaning they take filthy power from gensets and grids and condition it, removing harmonics, regulating the frequency and stabilising the RMS voltage.

Tuco88

Plenty of small inverters used in self contained emergency light fittings, and welder units.

Why? They're both DC appliances.

Tuco88

An inveter welder gives the user a nice variable frequency AC output from its filtering process. Still does not make you a great welder in my case...

Various Em fittings have inverters installed maybe to achive a desired lux output from fluorescent tubes.

Inverter welders output DC. But yeah frequency control makes sense, kinda. Quadruple conversion.

Flouros work with DC and make less noise.

Tuco88

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

Inverter welders output DC. But yeah frequency control makes sense, kinda. Quadruple conversion.

Flouros work with DC and make less noise.

Well the final output is a variable AC not dc its how an inverter works? I will post a block diagram from a site if you like, Its very helpful.

Yes fluorescent tubes will operate on AC or DC good example are ceag C.B.S switchs over to 240v DC during fault conditions.

You will find inverters in some self contained fittings also there hand for playing with ha.

Bruthal

knipex wrote: »

No argument there but to 95% of people, especially electricians, techs etc people mention inverter and the first thing they will think frequency control or speed control.

Of the other 5% most will think of the power investors in maplin or Halfords designed to run off a car battery..

All I think about is steel trunking and conduit.

Tuco88

Bruthal wrote: »

All I think about is steel trunking and conduit.

Dont forget the Tray & ladder rack...

2 Wheels Good

Just thinking of tidying up where we run the generator, we have it set up in a small outside boiler room. Would a bathroom type air vent like this from Woodies be enough so you could close the door and leave it run away or would I need to give it more ventilation?