Home Generator

sunnyday1234

Hi everyone
I assume many people are thinking this at the moment but with the recent storm i am going to buy a generator to give us some power in the event of another storm
i just want one that i can run in the shed, connect a long extension lead to it. Bring that lead into the house and plug in the fridge , tv and sky box, two lamps and a bar heater
Would anyone be able to recommend one that would suffice for this ? 

Thanks in advance

[*]

goat2

this would be a question I have too, as it would be damn handy to have for a light and the fridge and freezer, in case we will be cut off for a few days in next big wind

2011

In would be best to get a generator change over switch and generator plug / socket arrangement installed. That way you plug the generator in, start it up and then operate the change over switch. Obviously connecting a large load to a small generator is not a good idea, but you switch everything off before starting the generator and only turn on what is required. I generally install an "ESB" on light so that it is apparent when the ESB supply is back.

For safety reasons this work should only be carried out by a qualified electrician, from a legal perspective the work should be carried out by a REC.

Tuco88

In regards to a domestic change over switch.

What is the prefered method for the switch.
1) After the 63amp S/F or MCB.

2) Before the 63amp S/F or MCB. So esb tails straight to chage over switch then the 63amp S/F or MCB.

I would take it 1 is more common, simplest to do.

Just asking, I have seen alot of gennies sold for the domestic use with built in over current protection, Great.
And a good few without, at least with option 2 you have some protection.

Risteard81

Tuco88 wrote: »

And a good few without, at least with option 2 you have some protection.

It's unlikely that the generator would be able to deliver anywhere near enough current into a short circuit condition for this to provide any protection.

Tuco88

I take it method 1 is the most common so?

rolion

Not sure about the generators ... but a PV inverter needs to be certified to Irish grid standard and needs to have a very speciffic healthy feature: automatic anti-islanding circuitry ... read more HERE

Pete67

rolion wrote:

Not sure about the generators ... but a PV inverter needs to be certified to Irish grid standard and needs to have a very speciffic healthy feature: automatic anti-islanding circuitry ... read more

A standby generator is not grid tied, so this would not apply. The change over switch ensures the generator can never be connected to the grid.

Popeleo

Some of the suggestions here seems a bit complex for the man's situation. Domestic situation, independent of the mains supply and nothing too critical that needs continuity, so it would be far cheaper going down the route he described - manually switching over by unplugging from the mains and plugging them directly into a lead to a generator. Pain in the backside but OK if it is just for very infrequent backup.

OP - nothing you listed uses too much electricity except the bar heater. If you could source a gas heater, you would be able to save a lot on buying a generator. Just make sure the generator you get has an inverter - a standard generator could do serious damage to electronics. Just make sure you list EVERYTHING you want to run before you buy one - a small item like a kettle can make a huge difference to the size and cost of generator you would need.

And don't skimp on the extension cable if the shed is a fair distance away- pretty much everything you can buy retail is crap. Get an electrician to advise and/or make you one up.

Grid tied pv inverters need a grid to operate.
Battery inverters do not and they would be my personal preferance to gensets but require an element of energy awareness to get the most outtov and you need at least a 1kW true sine to start most fridge compressors. So not a realistically viable solution for occasional use. More reliable though, low maintenance. UPS with a few extra tractor batteries probably get you pretty far.

Makes more sense to burn gas for heat instead of burning dinosaurs at 40% efficiency & venting the waste heat to the atmosphere to run a lecky heater indoors.

2011

Popeleo wrote: »

it would be far cheaper going down the route he described

True.

manually switching over by unplugging from the mains and plugging them directly into a lead to a generator. Pain in the backside but OK if it is just for very infrequent backup.

....a pain in the @rse, especially when you consider that power often goes because there is a storm.

OP - nothing you listed uses too much electricity except the bar heater. If you could source a gas heater, you would be able to save a lot on buying a generator.

Good point.

I forgot to say, running a generator in a shed could be dangerous due to the carbon monoxide that it produces. It would be preferable to run it outside or at least have it close to an open door and have the exhaust pointing to the door.

2011

Risteard81 wrote: »

It's unlikely that the generator would be able to deliver anywhere near enough current into a short circuit condition for this to provide any protection.

Protective devices such as fuses and MCBs are designed to operate on overload as well as shot circuit conditions.

Markcheese

As was said above don't plan on plugging in a kettle, most kettles will use 2 to 3 kW on their own... An electric heater will use 1 kW per bar (a 1 bar heater 1 kw, 2 bar heater 2kw), fridges etc a lot less but it should be written on the back what they need.. And also as said above the longer the run, the heavier the cable needed.. Plus your neighbours may not thank you if you have a loud generator that's running 24/7 next to their house ( but away from yours)... Go to a tool hire /sales place and ask what they'll cost... You won't be too bothered about efficiency more reliability..

exaisle

https://www.ebay.co.uk/p/125-Amp-Changeover-Switch-240v-Mains-to-Generator-Transfer-Single-Phase-DIN-Rail/1661900551?iid=272258677525

One of these will do the trick....if you have space in your fusebox...

sunnyday1234

Guys
As some people have said above , i am looking for a simple solution. The power does not go out often but when it does i just dont want to be in complete darkness, i just want to have the fridge , a few lamps and tv etc plugged in to pr event my 2 year old going into meltdown :-)
The suggestion above of a gas heater sounds like a good idea and this will reduce the load on the generator. 
So for things like tv / sky box / two work lamps / american fridge freezer and maybe phone chargers - could anyone post a link to a generator that will suffice for these (with an invertor) ?

would this work ?
https://jebbtools.ie/collections/generators/products/sip-medusa-ti-2002-inverter-generator-2000w

listermint

sunnyday1234 wrote: »

Guys
As some people have said above , i am looking for a simple solution. The power does not go out often but when it does i just dont want to be in complete darkness, i just want to have the fridge , a few lamps and tv etc plugged in to pr event my 2 year old going into meltdown :-)
The suggestion above of a gas heater sounds like a good idea and this will reduce the load on the generator. 
So for things like tv / sky box / two work lamps / american fridge freezer and maybe phone chargers - could anyone post a link to a generator that will suffice for these (with an invertor) ?

Im not sure you realize because you have not awknowledged yet.

Your house would have to be isolated from the grid should you plug a generator into its supply.

Its not 'easy' there are laws in place for this.

Are you aware of that part at least?

sunnyday1234

I am not plugging a generator into the grid supply. I will be running the generator in a shed, running an extension lead from the generator into the house and plugging stuff like tv etc into the extension lead sockets

this is what i said in my very first post

Bigus

Good selection up in Armagh away from the panic down south.

I've used many gererator set ups over the years and I agree with your simple emergency set up, as a starting point.



http://www.gosfordequipment.com/ourshop/cat_519099-Generators.html


2.7Kw / 3.5Kva Petrol Generator - GX200 Honda Engine
Top Box 2x110v & 2x220volt sockets - In a full frame £580 sterling inc vat

FishOnABike

sunnyday1234 wrote: »

Hi everyone
I assume many people are thinking this at the moment but with the recent storm i am going to buy a generator to give us some power in the event of another storm
i just want one that i can run in the shed, connect a long extension lead to it. Bring that lead into the house and plug in the fridge , tv and sky box, two lamps and a bar heater
Would anyone be able to recommend one that would suffice for this ? 

Thanks in advance

[*]

Are all these going to be in one room connected to the one extension lead ?

sunnyday1234

Bigus wrote: »

Good selection up in Armagh away from the panic down south.

I've used many gererator set ups over the years and I agree with your simple emergency set up, as a starting point.



http://www.gosfordequipment.com/ourshop/cat_519099-Generators.html


2.7Kw / 3.5Kva Petrol Generator - GX200 Honda Engine
Top Box 2x110v & 2x220volt sockets - In a full frame £580 sterling inc vat

Thats not an invertor though, dont i need that for electronics ?

Bigus

sunnyday1234 wrote: »

Thats not an invertor though, dont i need that for electronics ?

Give them a ring I'd say it has an inverter , advertisers seem to only say inverter on the really cheap stuff , i.e. It's a given on better spec stuff.

sunnyday1234

Bigus wrote: »

sunnyday1234 wrote: »

Thats not an invertor though, dont i need that for electronics ?

Give them a ring I'd say it has an inverter , advertisers seem to only say inverter on the really cheap stuff , i.e. It's a given on better spec stuff.

Is this the same thing (cheaper down south) - there is no AVR, what is that ?
http://www.wholesaleweldingsupplies.ie/index.php?route=product/product&path=56_70&product_id=685

sunnyday1234

thanks for all the help. I am going with this one
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Senci-SC2000i-Inverter-Petrol-Generator/dp/B00NVJW212/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1508502093&sr=8-1&keywords=Senci+SC2000i+Inverter+Petrol+Generator+With+Yamaha+Engine+2kw

I will double check my appliances but i should be able to get tv / sky box / phone charger / broadband modem and fridge freezer in this one easily enough

CJhaughey

sunnyday1234 wrote: »

thanks for all the help. I am going with this one
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00J7LKV0M/ref=ask_ql_qh_dp_hza#Ask

I will double check my appliances but i should be able to get tv / sky box / phone charger / broadband modem and fridge freezer in this one easily enough

That should be OK, don't run it in an enclosed space (Shed) though, generators need cool fresh air to work properly.

my3cents

sunnyday1234 wrote: »

I am not plugging a generator into the grid supply. I will be running the generator in a shed, running an extension lead from the generator into the house and plugging stuff like tv etc into the extension lead sockets

this is what i said in my very first post

Perfectly good idea. The change over switch idea is total over kill. At least with a lead into the house its obvious what is plugged into it reducing the chance of overloading.

Pete67

Just a suggestion, start the generator and run it on load once a month or so, and drain the carburettor float bowl when you are finished. Many generators are left sitting in the corner of a shed for months or years and then unsurprisingly refuse to start when needed.

2 Wheels Good

sunnyday1234 wrote: »

I am not plugging a generator into the grid supply. I will be running the generator in a shed, running an extension lead from the generator into the house and plugging stuff like tv etc into the extension lead sockets

this is what i said in my very first post

Being from coastal west Cork, we were used to no power so my parents set the house up for a generator so I think this is what you want.
We've a simple switch installed in the main fuse box, 1 is ESB, 0 is off and 2 is internal power. I can't remember how much it was but it wasn't a big expense about 8 years ago.
There's a plug outside for the generator so it's simple enough to run. Turn the power to 0, plug in the cables, start the generator and switch to internal power.
We've a 3200watt generator running the house so lights, fridge, freezer and a travel 900w kettle all working ok. The oil boiler should work off that, i'm not sure about the water pump, something on my to check list.

TeaBagMania

You need to ask yourself how often the power goes out, if twice or more a year than a hard wired generator could be justified. we only have power outages maybe once every two or three years so I do same as OP and run an extension cord to what I need.

Lived off our 2600W generator in florida for three days after a hurricane, we were able to run an ameican size fridg, TV, internet router and modem, laptops, charge phones, and a large fan to keep us cool. Those few luxuries (especially the fridge with ice cold beer) made a big difference in quality of life

Don't forget to have a few large jerry cans standing by for petrol

listermint

sunnyday1234 wrote: »

Guys
As some people have said above , i am looking for a simple solution. The power does not go out often but when it does i just dont want to be in complete darkness, i just want to have the fridge , a few lamps and tv etc plugged in to pr event my 2 year old going into meltdown :-)
The suggestion above of a gas heater sounds like a good idea and this will reduce the load on the generator. 
So for things like tv / sky box / two work lamps / american fridge freezer and maybe phone chargers - could anyone post a link to a generator that will suffice for these (with an invertor) ?

would this work ?
https://jebbtools.ie/collections/generators/products/sip-medusa-ti-2002-inverter-generator-2000w

OK so you don't want the switch.

I would recommend it though it's simple and cheap to do handier in storm conditions.

That Gen looks crap tbh it's a site Gen for plugging in tools etc and radios.

This would be more up your alley

https://ie.wellindal.com/diy/einhell/p-45223?r=4006825589399&gclid=Cj0KCQjwvabPBRD5ARIsAIwFXBnrQK7YaxWbABafCRK2BMsHN6HfICAUSm5JgV4d9e9YpX7upNln8DUaAsfrEALw_wcB


Those plastic gens have max run limits where they have to be turned off for Some time to cool down. Be conscious of such requirements with any purchase

listermint

sunnyday1234 wrote: »

thanks for all the help. I am going with this one
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Senci-SC2000i-Inverter-Petrol-Generator/dp/B00NVJW212/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1508502093&sr=8-1&keywords=Senci+SC2000i+Inverter+Petrol+Generator+With+Yamaha+Engine+2kw

I will double check my appliances but i should be able to get tv / sky box / phone charger / broadband modem and fridge freezer in this one easily enough

Max Run time 6 hours fuel tank 4 litres.

Not for my money. No thanks.

sunnyday1234

power gone again this morning so ordering this one on monday. I cant justify getting one wired to the grid even though it would be fantastic. I will start with the method of running extension leads for now and see then

what ye think of this one ? gets great reviews

http://www.championgenerators.co.uk/Shop/champion-generators/uk-generators/silent-inverter-generators/cpe-3100-watt-inverter-generator-euro

As another poster said above, if i was able to keep the fridge going and charge devices / power lamps and watch tv then all would be fine as we would be in work during the day

sunnyday1234

listermint wrote: »

OK so you don't want the switch.

I would recommend it though it's simple and cheap to do handier in storm conditions.

That Gen looks crap tbh it's a site Gen for plugging in tools etc and radios.

This would be more up your alley

https://ie.wellindal.com/diy/einhell/p-45223?r=4006825589399&gclid=Cj0KCQjwvabPBRD5ARIsAIwFXBnrQK7YaxWbABafCRK2BMsHN6HfICAUSm5JgV4d9e9YpX7upNln8DUaAsfrEALw_wcB


Those plastic gens have max run limits where they have to be turned off for Some time to cool down. Be conscious of such requirements with any purchase

how do you propose i run the cable from where the generator will be running to my fuse box ? i have a patio and tarmac back yard. I do have power going to the shed but thats connected into a socket in the conservatory - not to the fuse box

that generator isnt an inverter - would it damage my electronics ? Its very cheap

sunnyday1234

FishOnABike wrote: »

Are all these going to be in one room connected to the one extension lead ?

multiple extension leads

Jakey Rolling

sunnyday1234 wrote: »

power gone again this morning so ordering this one on monday. I cant justify getting one wired to the grid even though it would be fantastic. I will start with the method of running extension leads for now and see then

what ye think of this one ? gets great reviews

http://www.championgenerators.co.uk/Shop/champion-generators/uk-generators/silent-inverter-generators/cpe-3100-watt-inverter-generator-euro

Great find, hadn't seen this model in my searches. I could do with something with a smoother output, that won't damage the TV! The wireless start would also be an improvement on heading out to the garage in foul weather. 8 hour runtime on low load isn't too bad.

I see a couple of stockists up north but they only have the 1000W model listed. Where did you order yours and what price did they quote you?

brock92

https://www.generators-direct.co.uk/search?search_term=champion+generator&gclid=CjwKCAjw4KvPBRBeEiwAIqCB-UNwrEImM3Oxph6EuiLv8twHF5DLHRVglgwVji1s1mVoiuTeXwwUNRoCmK4QAvD_BwE

Don't know how much delivery costs, you would need to contact them

quietsailor

I've been batting this idea back & forth with a friend of mine who sells big generators (too big for home use so no point in asking me for his name - sorry) & what we came up with is that it's not just a case of banging in a generator - here's the stuff most homeowners wouldn't deal with or understand. It’s for every house owner that looks up this thread, not just the OP in particular as they have an understanding of some of this stuff.

1. Most of our household equipment is rated in KW (Kilowatts). You add all the KW ratings together to get the total load.
HOWEVER
Kw is the makers theoretical electrical requirement for their machine – it’s the power needed when brand new in a factory test with no wear and tear and an electrically perfect setup when tested in the factory, the reality in our houses is that the machines wear, machines get old, there will be power losses in the wiring - That difference is called the Power Factor (PF)
Generators being sold are often rated in KiloVoltAmps (kVA) - that's the actual real life energy needed to run your old machine in the non-perfect setting

KiloVoltAmps = Kilowatts/Power Factor. PF is usually 0.8 to 0.95 (perfect theoretical world is 1.0 so to run 10kW of load you need a generator sized at;
kVA = 10kW / 0.8 = 12.5kVA
He said to beware of salesman trying to push a (for example) 10kW generator on you for a 10kW load - it probably won't be able to run what you want.


2. HP is the old imperial version of KW – 1Hp = 0.75kW
To give you an idea, a bungalow in the country that has a well will probably have a half hp well pump – 0.5hp = 0.37 KW


3. Then to throw another name in the mix – our fuse boards/distribution boards are rated in Amps (A) – we have a 63A main fuse, our socket circuits are usually a 20A MCB (Mains Circuit Breaker), an electric shower will be a 40A MCB and a cooker 32A MCB. To convert from kW to Amps requires that Power Factor again – something 99% of householders won’t be able to measure.
Rough rule of thumb 10Amps = 2Kw
kW = {Power Factor X Amps X Volts } / 1000 kW = [0.85 X 10 X 230 ] / 1000


4. Some generators are not suited to running machines with delicate electronics. There may be voltage spikes or frequency spikes. The cheap ones that supply dirty electricity ie irregular voltage or frequency – are fine for running simple items like drills, well pump motors, kettles but look at all the electronically controlled equipment in our houses today;

Fridge/freezers
Boilers
Heat pumps
Washing machines
TV’s plus consoles, hifi gear, DVD player etc
PC’s laptops, broadband routers

The cheap generator may end up damaging these and cost you more money again after the 1st blackout


5. It's going to be a pig at half eight or a wet stormy evening to be;
Pulling out cabinets/fridges to get at plugs,

To be running extension leads through the house to the various rooms in such a way they don't trip people or worse, get cut when a door slams close on them.

You need a very understanding partner to be understand that only certain things can be ran at the same time; for example if you want to boil the kettle while the boiler is running the children can't watch tv


6. That same understanding partner might not be quite as understanding if you’re not at home when the power cuts out – the power outage took our nearest mobile phone tower as well so my wife couldn’t ring me for help – they will need to understand all of the above or at least understand that the generator is limited in power so there will be no electric showers, no electric cooker and the normal big kettle can’t be used. They’ll need to know what plugs to unplug and replug into the generator.


7. The generator needs to be easily started – my wife is pregnant and couldn’t be pulling on a starter cord so it has to be an electrical starter.

Basically the person buying the generator needs to understand points 1-4 and, taking them into account;

1. look at their house and work out what is essential – both to live and to keep all occupants happy!
2. Add up the load in kW and divide by 0.8 to get kVA.
3. Add on 5-10% “just in case” room

Then buy a generator that has that rating in kW or kVA

Then you need to be able to explain to everyone else in the house about points 5-7 and get hem to accept them.

2011

quietsailor wrote: »

KiloVoltAmps = Kilowatts/Power Factor. PF is usually 0.8 to 0.95

Most large loads in a house are unity (or so close to unity that it makes no difference) power factor, such as an electric oven, electric hob or instantaneous shower.
A motor maybe 0.9 or 0.8 but there aren't very many motors in a house that are large enough to be concerned.

He said to beware of salesman trying to push a (for example) 10kW generator on you for a 10kW load - it probably won't be able to run what you want.

This applies more to industry where there are many DOL motors with power factor in the region of 0.9 (motors on VSDs are corrected to unity power factor by the VSD) and high starting currents.

2. HP is the old imperial version of KW – 1Hp = 0.75kW
To give you an idea, a bungalow in the country that has a well will probably have a half hp well pump – 0.5hp = 0.37 KW

So overall a small load that will have little impact on the overall power factor.

3. Then to throw another name in the mix – our fuse boards/distribution boards are rated in Amps (A) – we have a 63A main fuse, our socket circuits are usually a 20A MCB (Mains Circuit Breaker), an electric shower will be a 40A MCB and a cooker 32A MCB. To convert from kW to Amps requires that Power Factor again – something 99% of householders won’t be able to measure.

That is what the devices are rated for, not necessarily what the land is drawing. A cooker will rarely draw 32A.

Some generators are not suited to running machines with delicate electronics. There may be voltage spikes or frequency spikes. The cheap ones that supply dirty electricity ie irregular voltage or frequency

True, you get what you pay for.
I like Honda's myself.

5. It's going to be a pig at half eight or a wet stormy evening to be;
Pulling out cabinets/fridges to get at plugs,

To be running extension leads through the house to the various rooms in such a way they don't trip people or worse, get cut when a door slams close on them.

Agreed, this is why so many have changeover switches installed especially in rural areas where loss of supply is more common.

for example if you want to boil the kettle while the boiler is running the children can't watch tv

I would suggest using gas rather than electricity to boil a kettle when using a small generator, but I get your point.

sunnyday1234

Jakey Rolling wrote: »

Great find, hadn't seen this model in my searches. I could do with something with a smoother output, that won't damage the TV! The wireless start would also be an improvement on heading out to the garage in foul weather. 8 hour runtime on low load isn't too bad.

I see a couple of stockists up north but they only have the 1000W model listed. Where did you order yours and what price did they quote you?

These guys said they have it for 690 sterling plus 30 deliver to south so about 800 euro

info@gosfordequipment.com

exaisle

my3cents wrote: »

Perfectly good idea. The change over switch idea is total over kill. At least with a lead into the house its obvious what is plugged into it reducing the chance of overloading.

I beg to differ. The changeover switch removes the possibility of human error.

You just need one moment of carelessness to do serious damage to property....and possibly to people.

sunnyday1234

quietsailor wrote: »

5. It's going to be a pig at half eight or a wet stormy evening to be;
Pulling out cabinets/fridges to get at plugs,

To be running extension leads through the house to the various rooms in such a way they don't trip people or worse, get cut when a door slams close on them.

You need a very understanding partner to be understand that only certain things can be ran at the same time; for example if you want to boil the kettle while the boiler is running the children can't watch tv


6. That same understanding partner might not be quite as understanding if you’re not at home when the power cuts out – the power outage took our nearest mobile phone tower as well so my wife couldn’t ring me for help – they will need to understand all of the above or at least understand that the generator is limited in power so there will be no electric showers, no electric cooker and the normal big kettle can’t be used. They’ll need to know what plugs to unplug and replug into the generator.


.

not sure what kind of partners ye guys have :-) but when i told my missus that if i bought a generator we would be able to power the fridge and the tv and charge her phone then she was delighted.

I know running power leads all over wont be ideal but again, compared to the current situation its well worth the hassle

2011

sunnyday1234 wrote: »

I know running power leads all over wont be ideal but again, compared to the current situation its well worth the hassle

You are best off not guntering when it comes to mains electricity, even if you think it will save you a few bob.

sunnyday1234

do ye guys have any recommendation on a small portable gas heater / hob combo ? i have no experience of those so not sure how they work

i would like something cheap as it would only be used during a power outage

sunnyday1234

2011 wrote: »

You are best off not guntering when it comes to mains electricity, even if you think it will save you a few bob.

not sure i understand what you mean, guntering ?

also what do you mean by mains electricity - the devices will be plugged out of the main and into the generator

2011

sunnyday1234 wrote: »

not sure i understand what you mean, guntering ?

The generator will be outside, the devices you want to power will be inside. Therefore you will have leads passing through windows / doors for a period of time. For some people this could be for a number of weeks. Therefore there is an increased risk of electric shock / electrocution.

also what do you mean by mains electricity

Mains voltage, in other words a potentially lethal voltage.

Jakey Rolling

All good info there quietsailor.
One pedantic correction - the Power Factor is a measure of the phase lag between current and voltage in an AC circuit. It is generally less than 1.0 due to inductive loads i.e. motors, power supplies, anything with a coil in it.

my3cents

exaisle wrote: »

I beg to differ. The changeover switch removes the possibility of human error.

You just need one moment of carelessness to do serious damage to property....and possibly to people.

How exactly are you going to be careless plugging in and unplugging an appliance?

Are you likely to kill yourself next time you plug your freezer in? Careful its a dangerous world out there when you get out from behind that keyboard.

quietsailor

He’s been telling me about the options available to me from the smallest /cheapest (1) to biggest/most expensive ( )

UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCE WIRE A GENERATOR TO THE HOUSE FUSEBOARD, EVEN TEMPORARILY WITHOUT A CHANGEOVER SWITCH. The electricity will back feed to the mains and kill or maim any ESB linesman working in your area. That’s not me being cautious it’s a known danger!

1. Small generator outside, basic 13amp extension lead ran in through the window, unplug all the plugs from the wall and plug them into the extension from the generator. Something like the 3.5Kw in the above link


Pros
Easiest to do, no electrician required

Cons
Homeowner needs to be electrically savvy, needs to understand how to add up the electrical loads in the house
House owner needs to know to turn off EVERYTHING in the house to make the load as small as possible, this is too small to be able to start with a load connected. Even if you start it with the extension unplugged you can’t turn everything on at once, turn on the firest item and them wait 10-20 seconds for the engine to settle down, then turn on the next item.
Homeowner needs to understand the Kw (Kilowatt) to KVA (KiloVoltAmps) relationship or they will overload the machine and trip it off.
You need to make sure well in advance that the plugs are available – I had to disconnect the wires at the wall in my boiler and also cut the cable in the well house and put a socket on it so the generator could drive the well pump – that required an extra long extensiuon lead that I didn’t have. I’m comfortable wiring things like that, if you’re not then you could have a problem in a blackout and not be able to run a necessary item.

2. Bigger generator - something like a MOSA welder generator (Welder Generator Mosa Ts300) , These will be roughly 5kVA or 20Amps so big enough to run kettle, boiler, well pump, lights, and TV together, or in the link above the 8.5kW champion generator



Pros
Connect up and go, no plugging in and out at the extension bar
Cons
Same as above, just a little more breathing room

From this point on you’re talking about getting an electrician in for wiring but the flip side of that is there will be no messing inside the house pulling out fridges, disconnecting and re-wiring boilers, running extension leads.

3. Fit a 63Amp or bigger socket on the wall near the meter box, plus a manual changeover switch in the meter box. If you know a storm is coming and you’ve a generator rented and connected up to the socket once the blackout happens you;
Start the generator
Move the changeover switch from “Mains” to “Generator” Again it would be a good idea to have high load items and any delicate electronics turned off until the generator has settled down, then turn them each on individually with a small pause between each one.
Relax & enjoy
That assuming you have a generator rated to 63Amps or higher! You can still connect a smaller generator, you can’t run as much in the house on a smaller generator so you have to work out the KW of each item, add them up and allow breathing space.



4. Fit a 63Amp or bigger changeover switch in the meter box, purchase a generator big enough to power the whole house and get it wired in. During a blackout;
Start the generator
Move the changeover switch from “Mains” to “Generator” Again it would be a good idea to have high load items and any delicate electronics turned off until the generator has settled down, then turn them each on individually with a small pause between each one.
Relax & enjoy

5. Fit a 63Amp or bigger AUTO changeover switch in the meter box, purchase a generator big enough to power the whole house and get it wired in. During a blackout;
Relax & enjoy
This is my wife’s preferred option – it’s also the most expensive option. I’m comfortable with electrics & have a friend that rents generators so I’ll go with option 3 for a few years and then if I’m lucky enough to get a cheap generator I’ll go for option 5

2011

Jakey Rolling wrote: »

One pedantic correction - the Power Factor is a measure of the phase lag between current and voltage in an AC circuit.

...another pedantic correction, the power factor is the cosine of the angle between the voltage and current.

sunnyday1234

quietsailor wrote: »

He’s been telling me about the options available to me from the smallest /cheapest (1) to biggest/most expensive ( )

UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCE WIRE A GENERATOR TO THE HOUSE FUSEBOARD, EVEN TEMPORARILY WITHOUT A CHANGEOVER SWITCH. The electricity will back feed to the mains and kill or maim any ESB linesman working in your area. That’s not me being cautious it’s a known danger!

1. Small generator outside, basic 13amp extension lead ran in through the window, unplug all the plugs from the wall and plug them into the extension from the generator. Something like the 3.5Kw in the above link


Pros
Easiest to do, no electrician required

Cons
Homeowner needs to be electrically savvy, needs to understand how to add up the electrical loads in the house
House owner needs to know to turn off EVERYTHING in the house to make the load as small as possible, this is too small to be able to start with a load connected. Even if you start it with the extension unplugged you can’t turn everything on at once, turn on the firest item and them wait 10-20 seconds for the engine to settle down, then turn on the next item.
Homeowner needs to understand the Kw (Kilowatt) to KVA (KiloVoltAmps) relationship or they will overload the machine and trip it off.
You need to make sure well in advance that the plugs are available – I had to disconnect the wires at the wall in my boiler and also cut the cable in the well house and put a socket on it so the generator could drive the well pump – that required an extra long extensiuon lead that I didn’t have. I’m comfortable wiring things like that, if you’re not then you could have a problem in a blackout and not be able to run a necessary item.

This makes no sense ...

its impossible to run an extension cable through the window and unplug all the plugs from the wall and plug them into the generator. The extension cable will most likely have a few sockets only in it

There wont be any need either to turn off everything in the house as only the stuff you need will be plugged into the extension lead (s) .

It works the exact opposite way of this.... You plug in 1 thing at a time and make sure it can take the load. you dont plug in everything to the generator , turn them all off and then starting them all on :-)

sunnyday1234

2011 wrote: »

The generator will be outside, the devices you want to power will be inside. Therefore you will have leads passing through windows / doors for a period of time. For some people this could be for a number of weeks. Therefore there is an increased risk of electric shock / electrocution.



Mains voltage, in other words a potentially lethal voltage.

fair enough. i am only looking at using it a for a few hours at a time and never leaving it run overnight. Its basically just to keep my son and ourselves occupied for a few hours in the evening when there is a power cut

quietsailor

Jakey Rolling wrote: »

All good info there quietsailor.
One pedantic correction - the Power Factor is a measure of the phase lag between current and voltage in an AC circuit. It is generally less than 1.0 due to inductive loads i.e. motors, power supplies, anything with a coil in it.

Yep, to give you some background - I'm a Marine Engineer, we would have studied a few modules per year on electrics/electronics but we are mainly mechanical people. I was in charge of the generators in my time at sea so I would have a good working knowledge YET I needed to talk to my buddy to get explanations about this.

In these posts I'm trying to translate from the full-on power generation electrician speak to something a homeowner can understand.

If i go into the minutae of the detail it won't make sense - hence the explanation of "just think that a machine wears, needs more power to be worked and allow for that"