Discovery - Timeline, continuity and other canonical issues [** SPOILERS **]

Sad Professor

Rather than clog up the episode threads with what will obviously be an ongoing issue, I thought we could use this thread for pointing out and discussing the various timeline and continuity problems with the new show. Discussion of such issues are by no means confined to this thread, but many may prefer to debate them here rather than have to carry them over to each new episode thread.

Warning: This thread will contain spoilers for the latest episode. New episodes are released on a Monday morning, so if you are late getting around to watching them, avoid this thread unless you want to be spoiled.

The_Valeyard

I think we've had this thread before. We could be stuck in a continuity loop.

The_Valeyard

I think we've had this thread before. We could be stuck in a continuity loop.

Evade

Will Frasier Crane show up in the last post?

AMKC

I have not even seen the show yet but am annoyed that they have holo tech and subspace mind melds in it. Sure this would have been fine if it was based after DS9 but its not its not even after The Original Series it is before it. Some of it I don,t mind because sets like does used on The Original series would just look wrong and terrible now but the holo tech that really annoys me.

Slydice

The_Valeyard wrote: »

I think we've had this thread before. We could be stuck in a continuity loop.

All hands abandon Ship! Repeat all hands ABANDON

Sonics2k

The only real continuity error that's bothering me is the hologram technology they use for communication.

I suppose they could argue down the line that it uses too much power, so they stop using it by the time the Enterprise rolls around.

It's got to be really hard for them though, in the 1960's when Star Trek started, the idea of a talking computer was literally insane, but now we have talking computers in our pockets and even on our wrists. At what point do you completely limit what we currently know to be useable technology, just to make sure you stick to the exact cannon and technology of the original.

TNG was lucky, because obviously they thought ahead massively. Sure Picard even had a a tablet computer, which seemed like insane tech in the 1980's, but now we can buy them for €50.

server down

Canon in TV shows is whatever the last script writer wrote. For something that was derived from a book, you can talk about canon, in a TV show it's the latest thing written.

( and I suppose for TV originated shows, TV is canon over movies).

Also extreme nerds dont really matter. Firstly the is show is trying to get younger people involved. They wont know or care about canon. Most of the fans of TNG probably were not aging fans of TOS. Many aging TOS fans didnt watch it, because their life had moved on.

If you are looking for older fans you are tying yourself into a decreasing market.

Evade

server down wrote: »

Canon in TV shows is whatever the last script writer wrote.

Even if it directly contradicts a previous episode of the same series?

server down

Evade wrote: »

Even if it directly contradicts a previous episode of the same series?

Yes, last script writer writes the canon.

degrassinoel

server down wrote: »

Yes, last script writer writes the canon.

..And should be shot out of it, and into the nearest sun.

Evade

server down wrote: »

Yes, last script writer writes the canon.

That seems like a terrible way to do a series.

server down

Evade wrote: »

That seems like a terrible way to do a series.

Well whether it is or not, its generally accepted after a while. Otherwise you are in thrall to a script writer who is long since retired, or dead.

Dr Who had a script writer who gave the doctor 12 lives. He just wrote that in an episode and damn the future.

Rather than end the series in the mid 2010s, a later script writer said that he had 507 lives. So it goes.

Greyjoy

server down wrote: »

Canon in TV shows is whatever the last script writer wrote. For something that was derived from a book, you can talk about canon, in a TV show it's the latest thing written.

( and I suppose for TV originated shows, TV is canon over movies).

Also extreme nerds dont really matter. Firstly the is show is trying to get younger people involved. They wont know or care about canon. Most of the fans of TNG probably were not aging fans of TOS. Many aging TOS fans didnt watch it, because their life had moved on.

If you are looking for older fans you are tying yourself into a decreasing market.

The producers of Discovery repeatedly claimed over the summer that the new show would stick to established canon 'as much as possible' even going so far as to claim that they had 'super fans' in the writing room to keep them on track. Even this early into the new show it's obvious that these claims were just smoke & mirrors to lure existing fans. If the producers had been honest and upfront by saying 'Discovery is a reboot' I would have been disappointed yet still able to accept the show on its own terms. Instead they created expectations of adhering to continuity in a show that isn't interested in doing so.

server down

Greyjoy wrote: »

The producers of Discovery repeatedly claimed over the summer that the new show would stick to established canon 'as much as possible' even going so far as to claim that they had 'super fans' in the writing room to keep them on track. Even this early into the new show it's obvious that these claims were just smoke & mirrors to lure existing fans. If the producers had been honest and upfront by saying 'Discovery is a reboot' I would have been disappointed yet still able to accept the show on its own terms. Instead they created expectations of adhering to continuity in a show that isn't interested in doing so.

So what problems you got? Some technology is a bit advanced and that's it?

Evade

server down wrote: »

Well whether it is or not, its generally accepted after a while. Otherwise you are in thrall to a script writer who is long since retired, or dead.

Or the one who wrote last week's episode.

The_Valeyard

So,.........Spore Travel.........discuss :P

PhiloCypher

The_Valeyard wrote: »

So,.........Spore Travel.........discuss :P

Spore gate SG-1 haha

In all honesty while the concept is a bit daft I don't think it's canon breaking at this point. If the incident on the Glens anything to go by its too dangerous to be practical and will likely be shelved. Explaining why we never see it used in the future.

Evade

It does seem dangerous and it's more than a little reminiscent of Captain Ransom's antics in Voyager. It seems to be similar to how the Iconian gateways operate too.

It does kind of put the argument that the post Nemesis galaxy is too small if they're covering 90 light years in a few seconds before TOS.

As a more general continuity niggle, was calling the first officer "number one" a widespread thing before? Was Picard just being a bit retro in TNG?

EDIT. Never mind, number one comes from the Cage

pixelburp

Let me think about it ... hmmm, could we call it 'Sporp Drive'?

I actually like it; it feels like a fresh idea within the broader, more general canon yet the way the pilot spun it, sounds like a technology so potentially lethal it'll be easy to explain why it disappears from subsequent series.

seamus

Illicit research has always played a part in Star Trek, with several references to banned technology being used/developed by ships flying under the radar. In this case we can kind of presume that nothing really comes of the "spore drive" in the end since it's never seen in later years. Most likely the real goal is the hull-breaking invincible alien that the Glenn had kept in confinement.

silverharp

seamus wrote: »

Illicit research has always played a part in Star Trek, with several references to banned technology being used/developed by ships flying under the radar. In this case we can kind of presume that nothing really comes of the "spore drive" in the end since it's never seen in later years. Most likely the real goal is the hull-breaking invincible alien that the Glenn had kept in confinement.

if you can get stuff past shields then surely it would be easier to beam explosives or tactical nukes on ships

blanch152

silverharp wrote: »

if you can get stuff past shields then surely it would be easier to beam explosives or tactical nukes on ships

But not as much fun as a hull-breaking invincible alien.

silverharp

blanch152 wrote: »

But not as much fun as a hull-breaking invincible alien.

Cookie_Monster

PhiloCypher wrote: »

Spore gate SG-1 haha

In all honesty while the concept is a bit daft I don't think it's canon breaking at this point. If the incident on the Glens anything to go by its too dangerous to be practical and will likely be shelved. Explaining why we never see it used in the future.

not bloody likely. look at the constant issues with transporters doing weird things but still around. A drive like that is far to practical to ever be abandoned and constant refinement would continue to happen. So the fact that it's never ever mentioned in TNG era makes it a stupid plot hole thats more nonsense (much like Excelsior transwarp from the film) :mad:

Evade

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

not bloody likely. look at the constant issues with transporters doing weird things but still around. A drive like that is far to practical to ever be abandoned and constant refinement would continue to happen. So the fact that it's never ever mentioned in TNG era makes it a stupid plot hole thats more nonsense (much like Excelsior transwarp from the film) :mad:

After a quick look at Wikipedia, the spore drive covering 90 light years in 3 seconds puts 26 galaxies within a day's travel. Or to put it in a bit more of a Star Trek context would have turned Voyager's journey into a 40 minute inconvenience.

Even if it turns the crew to inside out crew the ship itself seemed largely intact so intergalactic probes would still work.

Sad Professor

Pretty simple way of explaining away the spore-based propulsion system: it turns out it's based on the exploitation of a benign, intelligent life-form. Every-time they use it they are killing it, but Lorca thinks it's worth it to defeat the Klingons. Trek has done this kind of storyline before, so you know what happens next.

pixelburp

Yup and were this the case, it deftly introduces the whole "at what cost?" angle that feels like it has been hanging over Lorca's head the moment he suggested his shadiness. ... our heroes discover this interconnected spore thing is a living being, Lorca doesn't care about some space fungus, cue Michael stepping up against her captain

TheIrishGrover

My whole take on TranSPORtation is that it was looked into but eventually deemed too unreliable and was never widely adopted. Maybe used by S31 in extreme cases.
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'course it is just a TV show.

Calibos

Sounds Dangerously close to MidiChlorians to me.

corkie

Star Trek: Discovery NCC 1031 ~~~ Section 31

Spoilers up to an including episode 3: -

Spore Travel [a.k.a DM - Blink Drive] science: -

The Suspect Science Of Star Trek: Discovery, 'Context Is For Kings,' Season 1, Episode 3

there is no difference at the quantum level between biology and physics,

I wonder what Sheldon Cooper would/will have to same about that quote?