Discovery 1x03 – "Context is for Kings" [** SPOILERS WITHIN **]

Smegging hell

Tilly seems to be a marmite character alright. I'm very much in the pro-Tilly camp, looking forward to seeing how she develops.

Evade

Deleted User wrote: »

Ha. That did make me laugh, but I think slightly wrong. I think she's closer to the aforementioned Harry Kim of Voyager; someone green, with little experience and zero confidence.

That's a good point. But she's as annoying as Wesley was. At least Harry was just boring.

DivingDuck

Evade wrote: »

Tilly is STD's Wesley.

I actually liked Wesley, but I was young at the time when TNG originally aired, so a wish-fulfillment character was a big plus for me. Burnham is much closer to that in this show, though, considering she's Spock's long-lost sister or whatever. (Still mildly horrified they've gone that route, but it's not Burnham's fault, and she really is growing on me.)

I liked Kim and Bashir, too, actually (though the points made about them are entirely valid)— there's a particular type of character that grates me, though, and she's about the pinnacle of it: babbling plus low-confidence pushes all my rage buttons. Kim was shy and a little green, but I don't remember him having the verbal diarrhea to this extent.

Granted, Tilly's spirit is definitely in keeping with the overall franchise, as was pointed out, but I don't think her behaviour is something we've seen before in anyone post-Academy. Talking about her mum criticizing her hair? Complaining about PT? Imagine Picard trying to deal with her— Or even Sisko. Janeway would definitely do her best, but I imagine she'd find it difficult, too. Kirk? I can't imagine. (And we're, what, ten years out from TOS here? Nine? Something in that vein, I think.)

I seem to be in the minority here in my opinion, though, so I won't bang on about it too much more.

Watched 105 last night on my phone so couldn't comment afterwards; must finish up 106 and post some thoughts on that soon! The series overall is definitely picking up for me, and I'm glad I'm getting to watch it and that there's a group here to chat about it with.

Don't get me wrong - I grew to absolutely love Bashir's character. The friendship between he and O' Brien is among the best of the Trek franchise --- if not of most shows. You genuinely felt they were good friends and cared about them.

I'm most interested to see where Tilly's character goes. Spoiler from future episodes: don't read if you aren't up to date (as we are in a discussion about #3) -

In one of the times that Stammets was.. confused .. he mistook Tilly for a captain. It raises 2 possibilities; 1) Tilly is a Captain in a Mirror Universe -- but not an evil one, because Stammets seems to react in a friendly enough way, 2) Tilly becomes a Captain at some point in the future. The latter is more interesting for me, personally, because it means they'll have to do some thorough groundwork with her character between now and then.

pixelburp

Yeah, those first few episodes with Bashir were something else, to the point where I doubted my own scant memories of DS9 prior to jumping into a from-the-beginning watch. He was horribly written at the start, and a classic case of a prototype character requiring some finesse and refinement of an otherwise unlikeable, extreme template. And as for his constant leering horniness ... jaysus. Bashir's friendship with O'Brien arguably saved the character, an Irishman probably being the perfect foil to his pretences in many ways. We don't tend to put up with much guff

I get what's being said about Tilly & her behaviour on a Starfleet ship, but to this point I've got the impression the Discovery (and her erstwhile sister ship) are experimental in every sense of the word, staffed with more scientists than usual; it'd ring true then that perhaps not all its crew are certifiably ready or appropriate for serving on a Starfleet vessel, instead fast-tracked on the basis of their academic skills. Certainly Stammets fits that bill too: arguably more so, given he's a person more likely to fight & argue a point or order - and has done! - than Tilly would.

DivingDuck

Yeah, I agree about the Bashir and O'Brien friendship— but then, I just loved O'Brien all around. I remember as a kid watching him on TNG and being genuinely shocked and thrilled to see an Irishman on a starship! I was so pleased when he got a bigger part in DS9. I'll admit it's been some years since I watched DS9 properly (as opposed to catching the odd re-run here and there), though, so I can't say I remember how I felt about Bashir initially. I think in those days the writers had more leeway, though, considering they had 20+ episodes a season to settle into the characters.

I take the point about Discovery being more of a science vessel than anything else, so that's very valid. I think it's more of a personal grievance for me— all my favourite Trek characters over the years have been of the what-are-emotions brigade (Spock, Data, Odo and Garak, Seven). Tilly's sort of "I love to feel feelings!" character type gets on my nerves terribly. I didn't even much like Kira (or Burnham!) at first, either due to their immediate passion, though their later grit endeared them to me. I've just never been a fan of "soft" characters.

Even so, a person's reaction to a character is going to be very different in their 30s/40s than in your childhood/teens. As I said upthread, I really loved and aspired to be Crusher as a kid, whereas encountering him for the first time now, I might find him irritating. I think when I was little, I would have absolutely hated Lorca for being such a shades-of-gray figure, whereas now I think he adds a lot to the show. Those kinds of characters are more relatable as you get older, too, I think.

I do wonder what baby Ducks would have made of this show compared to something like TOS and TNG, and if I would have developed the lifelong love of Trek I did had this been my initial exposure to the series. For me, that'll probably be the real decider on whether I think the series is "good" or not— if it would make someone fall in love with this universe in a way that would stay with them for decades.

Too early to tell, I think.

Evade

DivingDuck wrote: »

I do wonder what baby Ducks would have made of this show compared to something like TOS and TNG, and if I would have developed the lifelong love of Trek I did had this been my initial exposure to the series.

I wonder if any kids are watching this, Netflix have rated it 15.

DivingDuck

Evade wrote: »

I wonder if any kids are watching this, Netflix have rated it 15.

Good point. (Hence why I was so shocked by the unnecessary swearing.)

I wonder if any parents were thinking of using this to intro their kids to the universe and if they changed their minds once they saw it?

Smegging hell

DivingDuck wrote: »

Good point. (Hence why I was so shocked by the unnecessary swearing.)

I wonder if any parents were thinking of using this to intro their kids to the universe and if they changed their minds once they saw it?

Yeah I've seen some complaints on twitter along those lines, but mostly in reference to the

explicit flashback scene between Tyler and L'Rell in the most recent episode.

Smegging hell

Smegging hell wrote: »

Yeah I've seen some complaints on twitter along those lines, but mostly in reference to the

explicit flashback scene between Tyler and L'Rell in the most recent episode.

**** the complainers. I've no time for dumb ass twats like that. Don't blame show/film/game of you're too thick to read the rating and disclaimers

I'm delighted they had swearing in it. It really fit in so well with the show.