Discovery 1x03 – "Context is for Kings" [** SPOILERS WITHIN **]

Optimus Prime

I really enjoyed this one , a lot more than the first two. Has to be a section 31 ship, maybe we are seeing the beginnings of that, being formed after the start of the war with the Klingons. The black emblem on the one guy. Star fleet officers with questionable morals. Seems to point to that.

Goodshape

Didn't love it!

The last 15 minutes were decent but otherwise I wasn't enjoying the tone or the pace. Dimly lit, militaristic despite lip service to the contrary, and every character – not just Burnham – seems to be upset about something or in conflict with someone.

I'd thought getting a little back to basics was a benefit of the time setting, but now we've got magic-mushroom transporters. Huh.

The prison-transport pilot at the start was just disposable I guess? Something something redshirts, but it felt at odds with the momentum here and totally unnecessary.

Actually most of the episode upto those final 15 minutes felt unnecessary. They're doing that annoying modern television 'mystery' thing of not really talking about anything, except to say "we can't really talk about that".


So, not what I was hoping for. Hopefully I can warm to the tone of it; I think that's the main issue really. Wasn't all bad otherwise. Definitely didn't feel much like Star Trek though (I thought the pilot did).

Goodshape

Beginning to think I should have paid more attention to those annoying Section 31 episodes of DS9 and Enterprise :-/

Just never felt right that Starfleet should have a secret mysterious military division. Did I miss some redeeming quality? What's their end-game in the other series?, or did that remain a "mystery"?

TheIrishGrover

I really liked that episode. I have very few complaints:

Liked

• Jason Isacs. Always was a fan. He brings the right level of creepy to anything. You don't know if he's ever a bad guy of if he's just doing terrible things but for the right reasons (In his own mind anyway). The anger juuuuust about contained is great.
• Doug Jones. Again, always a fan. Best prosthetic actor in the biz. Very interesting character and not the usual Spock/Data Alien/android-learning-what-it-is-to-be-human.
• No Klingons.
• Canteen fight.
• Production values again. Very pretty.
• "Did he just 'shush' us?"

Didn't like

• The Tribble. Maybe he's discovered that they don't like Klingons and it's kind of like a warning system for him but did it have to coo EVERY couple of seconds? We got it. We saw it
• Still don't like the credit music/sequence. I know it's going for a Westworld/more mature tone but just doesn't do it for me
• Maybe it's my Samsung TV but it seems very dark (Netflix/Plex etc seems darker than broadcast on my TV)
• Security officer. Didn't know why she rubbed me up the wrong way. Knew I knew her from somewhere. Then remembered. She was in BSG.... Didn't like here there either. Must have been a subliminal dislike

I think they are playing the long game with the cadet. Just to get ya to like her. But she screams redshirt. I like the character and think she's played/written well (Just as long a she's the right side of annoying) but she screams redshirt so loudly it's hard to get invested. Maybe I'm wrong and she's the bait-and-switch. Hope so.

Not sure how I felt about the whole Amanda name drop (And her son). It was cool but pandering a bit.

I get why people are on the fence about it/don't like it. It's Star Trek but not as we know it, Jim. Certainly, as others have said, it's Battlestar Discovery. As avid Star Trek fans, they are entitled to their opinions. But I am also an avid Star Trek fan and I like it. It certainly has me intrigued and hanging for the next episode like Enterprise and Voyager didn't. Liked the whole Section 31 vibe. The ship registry 1031 was a bit on the nose, mind you I hope the series succeeds.

The_Valeyard

Goodshape wrote: »

Beginning to think I should have paid more attention to those annoying Section 31 episodes of DS9 and Enterprise :-/

Just never felt right that Starfleet should have a secret mysterious military division. Did I miss some redeeming quality? What's their end-game in the other series?, or did that remain a "mystery"?

Remained a mystery

TheIrishGrover

AMKC wrote: »

There was talk that it was set in the Mirror Universe but I suppose since things are so different in it from the Prime time universe we all know and love you can say even pretend that it is in the Mirror universe or even an alternate universe if that makes it easier to watch and get into.

Plus, not nearly enough goatees or belly tops.

degrassinoel

Optimus Prime wrote: »

I really enjoyed this one , a lot more than the first two. Has to be a section 31 ship, maybe we are seeing the beginnings of that, being formed after the start of the war with the Klingons. The black emblem on the one guy. Star fleet officers with questionable morals. Seems to point to that.

Thought so myself, but Section 31 was already established prior to the events in Enterprise (Malcolm Reed was a 31 Operative) it's supposedly been around since the starfleet charter was drawn up, way before the federation was even a concept. If it's not Sec31, the cannon is well and truly been thrown out.

The_Valeyard

Maybe spore travel is how S31 have been operating in the shadows for centuries. How Sloan avoided getting vaporised on Romulus. Easy to teleport where ever you want.

Spore travel, the secret federation weapon to expand across the stars 'in the name of peace'

The_Valeyard

TheIrishGrover wrote: »

Plus, not nearly enough goatees or belly tops.

Or Salutes and flags of a sword cutting through the Earth.

Goodshape

The_Valeyard wrote: »

Remained a mystery

Ugh, thought so. Lazy storytelling device tbh.

Maybe it's not Section 31, but certainly looks like it is. Just noticed the ships registry is 1031 too actually.

PhiloCypher

3rd episode thoughts :

-- Gotta say the design of the Discovery has really grown on me since it was first revealed.

-- it's definitely a different sort of trek , and that's not a slight. Trek is many things to many people and in the past when there were multiple shows running concurrently so everyone had their itches scratched. This, thus far, just scratches the one. But who knows , if this is successful enough we may end up getting spin offs set on a more typical vessel with a more typical crew.

-- which brings us onto the captain . I like Isaacs performance (didn't hear a hint of the southern accent I'd heard mentioned) but there's definite shades of Terry O Quinns Admiral Pressman from the episode Pegasus in TNG with him. Infact I'd imagine elements of that episode was an in'spore'tion for this episode and the season.

-- as for the crew being a little harsher then normal, so long as it's established that it's not representative of starfleet at large and is ,as has been theorised, a section 31 ship, then it's at the very least understandable and not some ret con of starfleet at large by Fuller/Kurtzman.

-- the plot structure really pressed home how different this show is going to be both in its focus on one main characters perspective(we like Michael are kept in the dark about these spore things until Lorca decides to fill her/us in) and the fact the mystery of what happened on the Glenn lays largely unresolved at episodes end.

-- to expand on my earlier point on the TNG episode Pegasus being an influence on the show. There are definite parallels. So picture this scenario. Lorca/Pressman, driven men, willing to do whatever it takes to give StarFleet any advantage over their enemies press foward with a dangerous experiment that (over the course of the season) pushes the crew to the point of mutiny. In the ensuing chaos the experiment goes awry and all hands are lost but for the captain and first officer Lorca/Pressman & Burnham/Riker . Like Riker Burnham keeps schtum and moves onto his next posting (enterprise/ ? ). Now Fullers original vision was for this to be an anthology series with different seasons set in different era's . Now It's unlikely as the show is called Discovery but what if instead of era's it's different ships and we were gonna follow one starfleet officer throughout her career from posting to posting. Season one a darker tale set on a section 31 ship. Season 2 on a more traditional happy go lucky vessel , maybe by season 6/7 she has been promoted to admiral and we get to see the politicking that goes on behind the scenes in starfleet/federation.

Sad Professor

I love the idea that to redeem herself Michael will probably have to commit another mutiny.

I found the entire premise of this episode to be really unbelievable. Allowing someone sentenced to life in prison to bunk with a newbie, freely walk around engineering and go on an away mission is really far fetched.

Evade

Lorca, and the whole situation on Discovery, reminds me of Captain Ransom from that Voyager two-parter.

It was a bit better than the previous episodes but it does feel a lot more like BSG than Star Trek.

expectationlost wrote: »

what was even happening when she went? to those different places?

Full_Circle_81 wrote: »

I was wondering that too. Was she seeing things the Spores saw? Was she actually ON those other planets? Felt like magic

It looked similar to an Iconian gateway.

Sonics2k

Deleted User wrote: »

I found the entire premise of this episode to be really unbelievable. Allowing someone sentenced to life in prison to bunk with a newbie, freely walk around engineering and go on an away mission is really far fetched.

It's not really a new concept.

Tom Paris, Chakotay, and even Ensign Ro do stints in prison. There's another young blonde Bajoran that dies in the last season attempting to escort a Cardassian to his home space, and she was one of the Cadets involved in the cover up of another Ensign's death.

The Federation has always had a forgiving streak when it comes to people who break the rules.

Sonics2k

Sonics2k wrote: »

It's not really a new concept.

Tom Paris, Chakotay, and even Ensign Ro do stints in prison. There's another young blonde Bajoran that dies in the last season attempting to escort a Cardassian to his home space, and she was one of the Cadets involved in the cover up of another Ensign's death.

The Federation has always had a forgiving streak when it comes to people who break the rules.

Yea.. a large portion of voyager is made up of terrorists, is it not?

Also Discovery operates outside of norms; the black badges, the different uniforms, the undisclosed experiments.

pixelburp

Sad Professor wrote: »

I love the idea that to redeem herself Michael will probably have to commit another mutiny.

Yeah, I'd say there's no 'probably' about it; you could practically call it Checkov's Mutiny, it was so blatantly splashed across the narrative. I speculated in the original megathread that Lorca might be the eventual bad guy & this episode has done nothing to shake me on this theory. If anything, it feels emboldened; there's clearly some shady affairs being conducted here & I suspect Lorca will - at some point - make the big "I'm doing this for you! For the Federation!" speech that all wing-nut Captains & Admirals of the Federation like to make when they finally go off the deep end. Cue Burnhum stepping in the save the day, while all around her accuse her of trying to get another notch on her mutineering bedpost.

As for the episode itself - that was more like it; both thematically as a 'proper' pilot, and as an episode of Trek itself. Yes, there's no denying that this is going to be the 'darkest' Trek there has ever been - and I'll admit the gory bodies were a bit out of place (if very 'Fringe' as someone already said) - but I think the foundations are all there, it's just layered with the tricky issue of a war & a Federation still presumably settling on its cores.

Perhaps this is the ultimate reason why they set Discovery in the past: Voyager's Federation is a done deal at that stage; without pressing the Apocalypse button (which I suspected fewer people would have wanted than you might think), the Utopia at this stage is fairly ... Utopian really. Backpeddling the timeline means you can sketch these stories from a stage in the Federation when it hadn't quite figured out its sense of purity, with a known, devastating war that dominated its thoughts and actions. After all, it's easy to be at peace when there's nobody shooting at you.

Back to the episode though, and one thing I definitely loved was the welcome expansion of the cast: Saru made for a welcome return; I actually quite liked Tilly, her breathless enthusiasm a reminded that this is still a future without famine or (internal) war; and Stammit the Engineer felt like the latest in a long series of Trek engineers and science fellows who just doesn't have time for anyone else's nonsense. Lorca is still a bit of a mystery, but an intriguing & like I said, a probably antagonistic one. Not sold on his Chief of Security though, she'll need some script work to tone down the pointless aggression.

All in all, this was what the pilot episode should have been; a solid core starting point, without plenty of room to grow & potentially good characters to develop. I'm a lot more excited after this weeks instalment.

Spear

My vague ramblings on it.

I like that Burnham is flawed by being principled, sticking to those principles too rigidly to the point of mutiny and almost self-flagellation by almost refusing the chance to dodge the sentence. Seems more human compared to some of the 2 dimensional squeeky clean heroes that all of sci-fi too easily turns to.


I liked the overall pattern of misdirection as the episode advanced, with early suggestions of dodginess for Lorca, only for him to then appear clean, and at the very end to be revealed as being dodgy, but in other ways. He seems to be more machiavellian than villainous however.

I know the fungus thing exploits real quantum mechanical phenomena such as entanglement, but, well, it's space fungus ultimately. I hope this doesn't be too much of a recurring thing. But if all the fungus are connected, a weapon could easily be used to wipe the lot out.

Isn't a black badge a symbol of Starfleet intelligence generally? Maybe I'm still thinking of the black uniform of Section 31.

I still don't and never will like the look of the Discovery.

The annoying roommate mentioned the ship has the capacity for 200 separate experiments, so there's more than the fungus stuff going on, as events on the USS Glenn seem to confirm. I would prefer it not turn into an experiment/monster of the week template however.

Bacchus

Alright, after that episode I'm all aboard BattleStar Trek Galactica. Aside from nabbing a Cylon as a security chief the tone is very BSG and I like it. Ok, it's not the Trek of old but I'm starting to think the setting during the Klingon war is genius as it allows them to tell a COMPLETELY different story with a different take on the Federation without breaking continuity. Sure, they'll break it in load of other ways but I can buy into this ship not playing by the same rules as the various Enterprise incarnations.

This felt much more like the beginning of a new show (whereas ep 1 and 2 really did feel like an extended backstory). For me, the biggest thing they nailed are the characters. I actually quite like them all and are already far more interesting than most TNG and VOY characters. Saru is still the standout for me, interesting character and great work from the makeup dept. I feel like the two science officers are going to be the heart of the show, with Lorca and the security chief bringing a much darker element to it. I haven't warmed to Michael yet but I like the approach the show is taking showing events from her perspective (mostly).

After all the dispair at the early ship design leaks, I think the Discovery looks fantastic. I love the saucer design with the ring around it and the rest of the ship looks quite slick and well proportioned. The interiors too look well and "Black Alert" is a neat twist on the norm. I got a definite "Fringe" vibe off that (I see a few others picked up on that too). With 300 experiments onboard, I expect a lot of Black Alerts to happen with weird sh*t going down.

Still loving that title intro too.

My only niggling complaint would be the central premise of devising this new form of travel... how has this never been heard of before? I'm guessing there are serious consequences to it that shut down the research but that just seems like an easy way out to conveniently allow it not break continuity.

PhiloCypher

Bacchus wrote: »

My only niggling complaint would be the central premise of devising this new form of travel... how has this never been heard of before? I'm guessing there are serious consequences to it that shut down the research but that just seems like an easy way out to conveniently allow it not break continuity.

We've already seen those consequences on the Glen. I imagine something similar will happen on the Discovery by seasons end and it will be shelved or as someone else said, as it's one huge connected lifeforms someone will find a way to kill it and bring the whole network down .

Johnny Storm

Johnny Storm wrote: »

Maybe Discovery is set in the Mirror universe?

If so, it would be interesting if it turns out that Michael is the new Spock. Since Sarek is involved, maybe he's the only constant across all Univereses. Maybe in this one, Sarek never had sons but, instead, adopted Michael

somuj wrote: »

I liked this episode. Thought the Alice in Wonderland rant was a bit daft. Liking the new captain and dark feel about him.

Is that kitty kat a Klingon Targ?

Interesting. If it is a Klingon Targ, then I wonder if something about the spores drove things to go crazy.

pixelburp

Deleted User wrote: »

If so, it would be interesting if it turns out that Michael is the new Spock. Since Sarek is involved, maybe he's the only constant across all Univereses. Maybe in this one, Sarek never had sons but, instead, adopted Michael

Sarek definitely has a son; Michael talked about Amanda Greyson & how she used to read Alice in Wonderland to her & her son.

And we're definitely in the Prime Universe; this has been confirmed by the writers & production staff during the run-up to the show starting, when naturally questions abounded about what universe Discovery was going to be set in...

pixelburp

pixelburp wrote: »

Sarek definitely has a son; Michael talked about Amanda Greyson & how she used to read Alice in Wonderland to her & her son.

And we're definitely in the Prime Universe; this has been confirmed by the writers & production staff during the run-up to the show starting, when naturally questions abounded about what universe Discovery was going to be set in...

Welp.

It was a good theory while it lasted

:pac:

TheIrishGrover

Funny how we all latched onto the Pegasus story in TNG. Was thinking the same myself. When Michael was in her bunk when the alert happened I instantly thought Pegasus. Even before all the mutilated bodies (Now we know why it got a higher rating).

When she saw the spore garden I initially thought it was some kind of proto Genesis experiment. Regarding the whole "Why haven't we heard of Tran-SPORE-tation (I'll get my coat). before, I suppose they could put forward different reasons:

• They just can't perfect it. Risks just too damn high as the meme goes
• Section 31 does use it all secret-like
• It's the mirror universe

Personally I think it's just the first. They just never perfected it.

TheIrishGrover

pixelburp wrote: »

Sarek definitely has a son; Michael talked about Amanda Greyson & how she used to read Alice in Wonderland to her & her son.

And we're definitely in the Prime Universe; this has been confirmed by the writers & production staff during the run-up to the show starting, when naturally questions abounded about what universe Discovery was going to be set in...

Could be Spock's brother from The Final Frontier (Or whatever the godawful God one was)? I can't remember how that worked out.

aligator_am

OK well that was a lot better than the first 2 episodes!

The Alice in Wonderland was very cringy but overall it was a fairly good episode I thought.

What's the story with the redhead, is she supposed to be a potential love interest for the main character?

When Michael was in that bio chamber thing and the captain hit the button, was it a hologram or did she actually teleport to the different places he mentioned? (I could have sworn he said Romulus, I thought they said the range was 90 light years? I'm assuming that the Romulan empire is much further away than that).

aligator_am

Didn't Section 31 have some weird stealthy teleporter technology? I seem to remember it being mentioned in Deep Space 9 when Sloan was trying to recruit Bashir. But I might be misremembering. Perhaps this is the prelude to that.

aligator_am wrote: »

OK well that was a lot better than the first 2 episodes!

The Alice in Wonderland was very cringy but overall it was a fairly good episode I thought.

What's the story with the redhead, is she supposed to be a potential love interest for the main character?

When Michael was in that bio chamber thing and the captain hit the button, was it a hologram or did she actually teleport to the different places he mentioned? (I could have sworn he said Romulus, I thought they said the range was 90 light years? I'm assuming that the Romulan empire is much further away than that).

He definitely said Romulus.

TBH I'm not certain. I actually took away from it that it was a holochamber as sorts. But it could be.

Spear

He definitely said Romulus.

The 90 light year thing was how far the Glenn had managed to jump exploiting the spores.

I assumed they were just showing images via the spores, given that moving the ship even small distances was still problematic (at least for Discovery).

aligator_am

Spear wrote: »

He definitely said Romulus.

The 90 light year thing was how far the Glenn had managed to jump exploiting the spores.

I assumed they were just showing images via the spores, given that moving the ship even small distances was still problematic (at least for Discovery).

Ah, that's an interesting point, maybe you can view distant places easily enough on the spore network but teleporting via the network is much more difficult?

Spear

aligator_am wrote: »

Ah, that's an interesting point, maybe you can view distant places easily enough on the spore network but teleporting via the network is much more difficult?

It'd be much easier to extract information from spooky linked fungus, it's after all how we already do quantum computing and the successful teleportation that we've actually accomplished. But exploiting that to move a ship is another issue entirely. Even moving a single person that distance would still make it a powerful weapon for Starfleet Intelligence.