Unions warn of train strike as staff demand pay increase

gooddarts10 · 18-04-2018 4:06pm

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

It depends, if staff are driving more /in the short week it could enable savings get made. I'm informed typical weekly driving is 20-26 hours so IE would really get that over 30. Then there is extra DART, Maynooth services planning so extra staff will still likely leave some overtime available.

The big point is that IE would have a guarantee of driver training to take place either through voluntary or compulsory means so can control the overtime bill. I reckon they won't totally eliminate because they can benefit from it as well.

Latest ballot has been passed by both unions

Jamie2k9 · 18-04-2018 5:23pm

gooddarts10 wrote: »

Latest ballot has been passed by both unions

Any % info?

Will the Labour Court still issue is recommendation?

gooddarts10 · 18-04-2018 5:41pm

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Any % info?

Will the Labour Court still issue is recommendation?

Nbru 59% in favour Siptu 60% in favour

Infini · 18-04-2018 10:05pm

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/rail-staff-offered-cut-to-working-week-to-avert-strike-36751461.html

Personally, it might work but I don't think senior management should be putting such offers on the table.

To be honest it's progress. Frank's as well also alienated people with his management style to the point that everything ended up deadlocked. Shouldn't be a suprise that there's some movement now that he's gone for good.

alentejo · 18-04-2018 11:05pm

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/irish-rail-curtailed-key-engineering-work-to-fund-pay-rise-1.3466262

Cookie_Monster · 18-04-2018 11:10pm

alentejo wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/irish-rail-curtailed-key-engineering-work-to-fund-pay-rise-1.3466262

deferring maintenance to fund pay rises is, frankly, insane.

eeguy · 18-04-2018 11:18pm

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

deferring maintenance to fund pay rises is, frankly, insane.

Just try not be on the train when another bridge collapses.

Jamie2k9 · 18-04-2018 11:19pm

Infini wrote: »

To be honest it's progress. Frank's as well also alienated people with his management style to the point that everything ended up deadlocked. Shouldn't be a suprise that there's some movement now that he's gone for good.

Well others might call it blatant blackmail

Given the tight result I suspect there will still be a lot of angry DART drivers in Fairview...

As for Frank's management style while I wasn't a fan I don't think it would take much to alienate the workforce.

jimmycrackcorm · 19-04-2018 12:28am

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

As for Frank's management style while I wasn't a fan I don't think it would take much to alienate the workforce.

His management style is only effective in private industry. in the public transport monopoly where union blackmail rules supreme, you just have to pay the ransom.

devnull · 19-04-2018 6:50am

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

deferring maintenance to fund pay rises is, frankly, insane.

By essential maintenance work, what do they mean, as opposed to non essential maintenance work? Does anyone have any examples of the kind of work that has been postponed and the consequences of that?

On the face of it though, it seems very much another example of a public service not being run on behalf of the public and instead the needs of the staff are deemed more important.

Hilly Bill · 19-04-2018 10:39am

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

deferring maintenance to fund pay rises is, frankly, insane.

That's just spin, they wouldn't defer essential maintenance for anything.

Hilly Bill · 19-04-2018 10:41am

devnull wrote: »

By essential maintenance work, what do they mean, as opposed to non essential maintenance work? Does anyone have any examples of the kind of work that has been postponed and the consequences of that?

On the face of it though, it seems very much another example of a public service not being run on behalf of the public and instead the needs of the staff are deemed more important.

Ballast cleaning..

goingnowhere · 19-04-2018 11:20am

Hilly Bill wrote: »

That's just spin, they wouldn't defer essential maintenance for anything.

Yes you would as you just slap a speed restriction in

Jamie2k9 · 19-04-2018 11:52am

Hilly Bill wrote: »

That's just spin, they wouldn't defer essential maintenance for anything.

It would be true and it has happened a few times with speed restrictions as said however I wouldn't fully believe the claim either. They need more money so they are been tactical here but I am not surprised those inside would question/dismiss such a claim even if it was accurate.

Hilly Bill · 19-04-2018 5:33pm

goingnowhere wrote: »

Yes you would as you just slap a speed restriction in

Then it wouldn't be essential then would it.

Hilly Bill · 19-04-2018 5:35pm

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

It would be true and it has happened a few times with speed restrictions as said however I wouldn't fully believe the claim either. They need more money so they are been tactical here but I am not surprised those inside would question/dismiss such a claim even if it was accurate.

Deffered the works yes but its not essential.

eeguy · 19-04-2018 5:36pm

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Then it wouldn't be essential then would it.

Sure you could stop the trains altogether, then there's be no maintenance required at all.

Jamie2k9 · 19-04-2018 6:58pm

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Deffered the works yes but its not essential.

Depends on your view, I mean is a TSR acceptable to be in place for 12, 18 or 24 months because works are required on the network. In my view its not.

Having to slow down trains is essential, it is just them delaying it as long as possible. Routine maintenance can easily be deferred without slowing trains for a period of time.

You know there is a problem when TSRs are no longer listed in weekly circulars but make permanent on a route....

The high pay rise granted was inevitably going defer infrastructure spend because the NTA were never going to cough up all the money nor should they have to.

Hilly Bill · 19-04-2018 9:14pm

They have deffered works in the past for various reasons, it's no biggy. It's still going to get done and a dispute is resolved so happy days all around.

Cookie_Monster · 19-04-2018 9:21pm

Hilly Bill wrote: »

That's just spin, they wouldn't defer essential maintenance for anything.

sure, I'll believe you over IE and a paper of record...
take your spin elsewhere

Jamie2k9 · 19-04-2018 10:04pm

Hilly Bill wrote: »

They have deffered works in the past for various reasons, it's no biggy. It's still going to get done and a dispute is resolved so happy days all around.

Over for now, once the 3 months runs out and unions don't get what they want they will dangle the strike threats again!

Hilly Bill · 19-04-2018 10:23pm

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Over for now, once the 3 months runs out and unions don't get what they want they will dangle the strike threats again!

And rightly so.

gooddarts10 · 22-04-2018 8:50am

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Over for now, once the 3 months runs out and unions don't get what they want they will dangle the strike threats again!

Not over yet !! I hear that the Dart drivers ( the problem child of Irish rail ) have thrown there rattle out of the pram and are NOT going to make themselves available for mentoring

Jamie2k9 · 22-04-2018 9:38pm

gooddarts10 wrote: »

Not over yet !! I hear that the Dart drivers ( the problem child of Irish rail ) have thrown there rattle out of the pram and are NOT going to make themselves available for mentoring

Well I cant say I am surprised but still it will be a sticky situation for unions to wriggle their way out of because they set the question and made the result binding!

Hilly Bill wrote: »

And rightly so.

Could you change sides any more often

gooddarts10 · 22-04-2018 9:46pm

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Well I cant say I am surprised but still it will be a sticky situation for unions to wriggle their way out of because they set the question and made the result binding!

Could you change sides any more often

The unions can’t back them as the vote as you say is binding but unfortunately it looks like a few rabble rousers within the Dart drivers are calling the shots

Jamie2k9 · 22-04-2018 10:01pm

gooddarts10 wrote: »

The unions can’t back them as the vote as you say is binding but unfortunately it looks like a few rabble rousers within the Dart drivers are calling the shots

Given they are confined to EMU I suspect what IE offered is much less appealing as IE probally have adequate staffing resources on the DART. I mean service levels are down but have been more less the same for the last 10 years. Apart from extra training for this 10 minute services resources are probally rarely stretched.

If IE play it well they could even manage to get compulsory training passed, most have a price so anything is possible but suspect I might be to optimistic!

GM228 · 24-04-2018 8:12pm

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

If IE play it well they could even manage to get compulsory training passed, most have a price so anything is possible but suspect I might be to optimistic!

They already have with the accepted deal.

Jamie2k9 · 24-04-2018 10:01pm

GM228 wrote: »

They already have with the accepted deal.

I didn't think it was compulsory, good news all the same.

GM228 · 26-04-2018 4:55pm

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

I didn't think it was compulsory, good news all the same.

Under the accepted deal mentoring is compulsory if they have sufficient volunteers, if not then they will pick at random enough drivers who unless without good reason must mentor, I don't think a simple "I don't want to do it and that's that" will fall into the good reason category. In effect the deal makes mentoring compulsory.

Colonel Claptrap · 12-06-2018 11:33am

Sitting on a DART yesterday, I heard a young shakey voice on the driver's cab tanoy announcing the next stop.

Turns out it was one of the new trainee drivers with his mentor showing him the ropes.

Delighted to see fresh blood in the company. Best of luck to the chap in his new career. He was very polite and courteous.

Thankfully this unfortunate episode of industrial relations has come to an end and young drivers can finally get going on their careers.

Unions warn of train strike as staff demand pay increase

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