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Unions warn of train strike as staff demand pay increase

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  • Options
    #2282
    Topgear on Dave
    Registered Users Posts: 4,535 ✭✭✭Topgear on Dave


    john boye wrote: »
    Praising a company for a 500 million black hole in the accounts is certainly... maverick, I'll give you that.

    Somebody pointed out to me here that it wasnt set up to make a profit.

    Its certainly achieved that aim :pac::pac:


  • Options
    #2283
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,998 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    PeterParker957 wrote: »
    "We" have established nothing.

    we actually have. i can't force you to believe reality however, i can only provide the information. after that it's up to you what you do with it or whether you except it or not.
    PeterParker957 wrote: »
    "You may think that but I hate to break it to you flower, but you are not the arbiter of what truth is. Ever.

    correct, just as well i never claimed otherwise. the truth is the arbiter of what truth is however.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



  • Options
    #2284
    MOH
    Registered Users Posts: 6,464 ✭✭✭MOH


    end of the road wrote: »
    we actually have. i can't force you to believe reality however, i can only provide the information. after that it's up to you what you do with it or whether you except it or not.
    .
    We certainly haven't


  • Options
    #2285
    trellheim
    Registered Users Posts: 5,880 ✭✭✭trellheim


    Shutdown CIE completely a better option for the taxpayer ?

    Switch to DC Pensions, state agree to fund 50% of current Pension liability, here's all our trainsets and buses, party on


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    #2286
    PeterParker957
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,177 ✭✭✭PeterParker957


    end of the road wrote: »
    we actually have. i can't force you to believe reality however, i can only provide the information. after that it's up to you what you do with it or whether you except accept it or not.



    correct, just as well i never claimed otherwise. the truth is the arbiter of what truth is however.

    Stay in school, kids!


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    #2287
    monument
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,073 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    PeterParker957 wrote: »
    Stay in school, kids!

    Banned for a day — not for this post alone but a trend if posts like this and the warnings not sinking in.

    — moderator


  • Options
    #2288
    bebeman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 345 ✭✭bebeman


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    There is always a 3rd option....

    Don't leave us hanging, do tell.


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    #2289
    bebeman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 345 ✭✭bebeman


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    That would be illegal as fair as I'm aware.




    Is there any evidence the Government wants to privatise CIÉ
    PeterParker957 wrote: »
    Does unfounded union paranoia count ????

    What bubble do you 2 live in?
    10% of routes gone to Go Ahead ,the other 90% up for tender next year.


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    #2290
    frag420
    Registered Users Posts: 6,158 ✭✭✭frag420


    end of the road wrote: »
    . the truth is the arbiter of what truth is however.

    :confused::confused::confused:


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    #2291
    MOH
    Registered Users Posts: 6,464 ✭✭✭MOH


    bebeman wrote: »
    What bubble do you 2 live in?
    10% of routes gone to Go Ahead ,the other 90% up for tender next year.

    Which CIE will be able to apply for? So what.
    That's not privatising them, that's opening the market to competition.


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    #2292
    PeterParker957
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,177 ✭✭✭PeterParker957


    frag420 wrote: »
    :confused::confused::confused:

    Beats me that one!!!


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    #2293
    fxotoole
    Registered Users Posts: 1,661 ✭✭✭fxotoole


    bebeman wrote: »
    What bubble do you 2 live in?
    10% of routes gone to Go Ahead ,the other 90% up for tender next year.

    That’s not privatisation. That’s tendering/contracting.


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    #2294
    gooddarts10
    Registered Users Posts: 105 ✭✭gooddarts10


    Any news on the meetings today about the shorter working week and mentoring?


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    #2295
    Colonel Claptrap
    Registered Users Posts: 945 ✭✭✭Colonel Claptrap


    gooddarts10 wrote: »
    Any news on the meetings today about the shorter working week and mentoring?

    The meeting was cut short and everyone went home for the weekend.

    :pac:


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    #2296
    gooddarts10
    Registered Users Posts: 105 ✭✭gooddarts10


    Colonel Claptrap wrote: »
    The meeting was cut short and everyone went home for the weekend.

    :pac:
    Any reason for it being cut short?
    I thought this was last chance saloon ( again )


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    #2297
    Jamie2k9
    Registered Users Posts: 10,682 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    gooddarts10 wrote: »
    Any reason for it being cut short?
    I thought this was last chance saloon ( again )

    Perhaps the penny has dropped and there will be no negotiations until driver training is sorted out. Speaking of which, Labour Court should be due out soon.


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    #2298
    gooddarts10
    Registered Users Posts: 105 ✭✭gooddarts10


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    Perhaps the penny has dropped and there will be no negotiations until driver training is sorted out. Speaking of which, Labour Court should be due out soon.

    Was it not the LRC they were at today?


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    #2299
    Jamie2k9
    Registered Users Posts: 10,682 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    gooddarts10 wrote: »
    Was it not the LRC they were at today?

    No idea (only knew about it after reading here) but surly everything is off the table on both sides until the ruling from last month is due.


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    #2300
    gooddarts10
    Registered Users Posts: 105 ✭✭gooddarts10


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    No idea (only knew about it after reading here) but surly everything is off the table on both sides until the ruling from last month is due.

    I know they were due back there today after last months wrc referral


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    #2301
    gooddarts10
    Registered Users Posts: 105 ✭✭gooddarts10


    gooddarts10 wrote: »
    I know they were due back there today after last months wrc referral

    But sure they have been back in forth so many times I’ve lost track


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    #2302
    Colonel Claptrap
    Registered Users Posts: 945 ✭✭✭Colonel Claptrap


    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/former-union-boss-brendan-ogle-to-launch-political-party-1.3440018?mode=amp

    Brendan Ogle to set up a political party.


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    #2303
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 68,015 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Colonel Claptrap wrote: »
    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/former-union-boss-brendan-ogle-to-launch-political-party-1.3440018?mode=amp

    Brendan Ogle to set up a political party.

    Because spreading the limited % that the hard left get has worked so well before.


    DLR in London is not operating due to a strike today despite being driverless - despite the constant claims on here that the only reason anyone would go driverless is to avoid strikes!


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    #2304
    Topgear on Dave
    Registered Users Posts: 4,535 ✭✭✭Topgear on Dave


    A reduction of the working week could resolve the training issues. Interesting :pac:
    https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/reduction-of-working-week-could-help-to-avoid-rail-strike-834689.html


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    #2305
    gooddarts10
    Registered Users Posts: 105 ✭✭gooddarts10


    Topgear on Dave wrote: »
    A reduction of the working week could resolve the training issues. Interesting :pac:
    https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/reduction-of-working-week-could-help-to-avoid-rail-strike-834689.html

    As far as I’m aware even if the drivers agree to the talks on the shorter working week mentoring will still be voluntary thus changing nothing.


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    #2306
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,595 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    Topgear on Dave wrote: »
    A reduction of the working week could resolve the training issues. Interesting :pac:
    https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/reduction-of-working-week-could-help-to-avoid-rail-strike-834689.html

    So this dispute is actually about the fact that new drivers will impact the ability of existing drivers to earn overtime, which the existing drivers want to offset by reducing the working week?


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    #2307
    gooddarts10
    Registered Users Posts: 105 ✭✭gooddarts10


    devnull wrote: »
    So this dispute is actually about the fact that new drivers will impact the ability of existing drivers to earn overtime, which the existing drivers want to offset by reducing the working week?

    I have no problem with the drivers trying to better their t&cs but it shouldn’t be on the back of fellow union members


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    #2308
    Jamie2k9
    Registered Users Posts: 10,682 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    Topgear on Dave wrote: »
    A reduction of the working week could resolve the training issues. Interesting :pac:
    https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/reduction-of-working-week-could-help-to-avoid-rail-strike-834689.html

    A shorter working week means more drivers will be required to facilitate it so if you want a shorter week you train the new drivers to make it happen
    So this dispute is actually about the fact that new drivers will impact the ability of existing drivers to earn overtime, which the existing drivers want to offset by reducing the working week?

    You would think that but the reality is those drivers doing overtime will be worse off regardless of a shorter week. They get a premium for it and expenses as well.

    Is there split ranks on the shorter week verses overtime??
    As far as I’m aware even if the drivers agree to the talks on the shorter working week mentoring will still be voluntary thus changing nothing.

    IE will want assurance there will be drivers available to train regardless of it been voluntary. They won't agree to a reduced week until the training is resolved.


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    #2309
    Jamie2k9
    Registered Users Posts: 10,682 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    it has been revealed that the company has agreed to talks on the possibility of reducing their working week if they agree to drive more hours and carry out the training.

    The message to members claimed the recently departed chief executive David Franks was the "main protagonist in resisting our agenda to improve drivers' terms and conditions".

    "But, that was then, this is now," it said. "We have today receiveda commitment from Iarnród Éireann senior management team that they will enter immediate discussions on a reduction in the working week within a dedicated timeframe of three months."

    The message said they faced a choice - they must accept the mentoring deal and begin talks on the working week or "be prepared to engage in an all-out strike if or when Iarnród Éireann moves to unilaterally impose the mentoring regime".

    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/rail-staff-offered-cut-to-working-week-to-avert-strike-36751461.html

    Personally, it might work but I don't think senior management should be putting such offers on the table.


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    #2310
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,595 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/rail-staff-offered-cut-to-working-week-to-avert-strike-36751461.html

    Personally, it might work but I don't think senior management should be putting such offers on the table.

    As I suspected - all about making sure that current staff do not lose pay from new drivers reducing the ability for existing drivers to earn cash by working overtime.

    They're happy to reduce their overtime earning potential by training new drivers, as long as they have some of their current standard hours chucked over from the contracted hours basket to overtime hours basket.

    Apparently this was all about mentoring but in reality it's becoming clear it's about not losing the gravy train of the same overtime culture in Irish Rail, that exists in Bus Eireann.


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    #2311
    Jamie2k9
    Registered Users Posts: 10,682 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    It depends, if staff are driving more /in the short week it could enable savings get made. I'm informed typical weekly driving is 20-26 hours so IE would really get that over 30. Then there is extra DART, Maynooth services planning so extra staff will still likely leave some overtime available.

    The big point is that IE would have a guarantee of driver training to take place either through voluntary or compulsory means so can control the overtime bill. I reckon they won't totally eliminate because they can benefit from it as well.


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