Unions warn of train strike as staff demand pay increase

Working class heroes · 27-09-2017 1:58pm

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Not exclusively, it depends on what you need to announce.

:rolleyes:

Kiith · 27-09-2017 2:31pm

RTE/Siptu wrote:

He noted that staff in Luas and Dublin Bus had secured increases of around 3.75% per year and that Iarnród Éireann personnel needed to get at least that

Why should drivers be entitled to a pay increase simply because employees in another company got one? Does that mean Luas drivers will strike again next year, as IE drivers are getting more? Then DB drives strike again, cause Luas drivers are getting more. And then IE drivers...etc etc etc...

Just because someone in a completely different company gets a pay increase, does not mean that you are entitled to one :mad:

end of the road · 27-09-2017 4:26pm

Kiith wrote: »

Why should drivers be entitled to a pay increase simply because employees in another company got one? Does that mean Luas drivers will strike again next year, as IE drivers are getting more? Then DB drives strike again, cause Luas drivers are getting more. And then IE drivers...etc etc etc...

Just because someone in a completely different company gets a pay increase, does not mean that you are entitled to one

no but you are entitled to look for one. anyone is entitled to look for a raise. whether they get it or not is a different story but we are all entitled to ask.

Working class heroes · 27-09-2017 4:35pm

end of the road wrote: »

no but you are entitled to look for one. anyone is entitled to look for a raise. whether they get it or not is a different story but we are all entitled to ask.

So you work for IR then?

Stephen15 · 27-09-2017 6:04pm

Kiith wrote: »

Why should drivers be entitled to a pay increase simply because employees in another company got one? Does that mean Luas drivers will strike again next year, as IE drivers are getting more? Then DB drives strike again, cause Luas drivers are getting more. And then IE drivers...etc etc etc...

Just because someone in a completely different company gets a pay increase, does not mean that you are entitled to one :mad:

Luas, IE and DB all had/have pay claims in. Its common misconception that DB only went on strike because the luas workers got an increase NOT TRUE. Luas and DB workers both had genuine pay claims in. Employees in other companies getting an increase is not a valid reason to give workers an increase and the unions know this.

DB would have went on strike even if the Luas never did because they had a pay claim in.

Idbatterim · 27-09-2017 6:20pm

Why should drivers be entitled to a pay increase simply because employees in another company got one? Does that mean Luas drivers will strike again next year, as IE drivers are getting more? Then DB drives strike again, cause Luas drivers are getting more. And then IE drivers...etc etc etc...

Just because someone in a completely different company gets a pay increase, does not mean that you are entitled to one

This is what I am interested in, why should IE which is losing money, be giving pay rises to staff that appear over paid as it is? Just because? Its never ending here, hopefully dublin metro is driverless for a start...

end of the road · 27-09-2017 6:32pm

Working class heroes wrote: »

So you work for IR then?

i don't. but that doesn't change the reality that in any job, you can ask for a raise.

Idbatterim wrote: »

This is what I am interested in, why should IE which is losing money, be giving pay rises to staff that appear over paid as it is?

Ask IE and it's staff, who don't appear over paid, because for the most part they aren't over paid. they aren't under-paid either. like any public service which loses money, staff still have to be attracted to either come, or to remain within those services.

Idbatterim wrote: »

Just because? Its never ending here, hopefully dublin metro is driverless for a start...

dublin metro being driverless won't make a difference to pay claims, as there will be staff in some form involved, and they will at some stage look for a pay rise, and likely go on strike for it.

tayto lover · 27-09-2017 6:51pm

It is every workers right to seek better pay and conditions.
I respect that right.

Hilly Bill · 27-09-2017 6:52pm

devnull wrote: »

Doesn't have to be announced in person just let people know, this happened many times, the whole line was closed and no trains were running on a number of occasions and the staff member just watches people walking through the gates to the platform for a train that isn't going to come on either side for a long while and people wait for ages.

I think generally the provision of info in Irish Rail is quite poor, but it's far worse outside the city center stations.

The provision of info is no better internally either.
You would nearly be better off passing info face to face as a lot wouldn't either understand or hear the announcement.

Hilly Bill · 27-09-2017 6:55pm

Kiith wrote: »

Why should drivers be entitled to a pay increase simply because employees in another company got one? Does that mean Luas drivers will strike again next year, as IE drivers are getting more? Then DB drives strike again, cause Luas drivers are getting more. And then IE drivers...etc etc etc...

Just because someone in a completely different company gets a pay increase, does not mean that you are entitled to one :mad:

A pay rise was agreed several years ago and the signalmen got it, the rest are still waiting.

Hilly Bill · 27-09-2017 6:57pm

Idbatterim wrote: »

This is what I am interested in, why should IE which is losing money, be giving pay rises to staff that appear over paid as it is? Just because? Its never ending here, hopefully dublin metro is driverless for a start...

Would you class taking home 470 a week overpaid?

devnull · 27-09-2017 7:00pm

Hilly Bill wrote: »

The provision of info is no better internally either.
You would nearly be better off passing info face to face as a lot wouldn't either understand or hear the announcement.

You say that but on a regular basis the guy in the station said he knew of the info but it was 'not my job' to announce it.

murphthesmurf · 27-09-2017 7:06pm

It is obvious this would happen. They should never have given the tram drivers a pay rise. Massively over paid for a job you could train a chimpanzee to do. It's on rails ffs, you don't even have to steer it. Then the bus drivers all think 'my job is far more difficult than theirs as I have to steer my vehicle and get safely through traffic etc'. Now the trwin drivers think 'hell those boys are all getting more money I'm driving a 100 tonne train with 200 people on, I should be on way more'.
Let them strike, and let the company go bankrupt and start again from scratch.

murphthesmurf · 27-09-2017 7:08pm

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Would you class taking home 470 a week overpaid?

What? Train drivers are on 60k a year easily. Thats one of the reasons the tram drivers wanted more.

Working class heroes · 27-09-2017 7:10pm

end of the road wrote: »

i don't. but that doesn't change the reality that in any job, you can ask for a raise.

Ask IE and it's staff, who don't appear over paid, because for the most part they aren't over paid. they aren't under-paid either. like any public service which loses money, staff still have to be attracted to either come, or to remain within those services.

dublin metro being driverless won't make a difference to pay claims, as there will be staff in some form involved, and they will at some stage look for a pay rise, and likely go on strike for it.

I just asked the staff. They have confirmed they are overpaid.

end of the road · 27-09-2017 7:16pm

murphthesmurf wrote: »

It is obvious this would happen.

yes, because they had a claim in for a long time.

murphthesmurf wrote: »

They should never have given the tram drivers a pay rise.

why not.

murphthesmurf wrote: »

Massively over paid for a job you could train a chimpanzee to do.

wrong, not Massively over paid for a job you couldn't train a chimpanzee to do. correctly paid for a very very responsible job, for which the market requires such a wage.

murphthesmurf wrote: »

It's on rails ffs, you don't even have to steer it.

irrelevant. it's still a very responsible job and will command a high wage.

murphthesmurf wrote: »

Then the bus drivers all think 'my job is far more difficult than theirs as I have to steer my vehicle and get safely through traffic etc'.

it is a responsible job yes. however the pay claims are nothing to do with each other.

murphthesmurf wrote: »

Now the trwin drivers think 'hell those boys are all getting more money I'm driving a 100 tonne train with 200 people on, I should be on way more'.

no they don't. none of the companies pay claims are related.

murphthesmurf wrote: »

Let them strike, and let the company go bankrupt and start again from scratch.

pointless as it would cause quite a lot of up-evil which would last a long long time, for strikes to still happen. waste of time money and all else for a 1 day strike.

murphthesmurf wrote: »

What? Train drivers are on 60k a year easily. Thats one of the reasons the tram drivers wanted more.

only the ones at the very top of the scale are on that wage, and i have no doubt overtime is a part of that. the rest are on a lot less.

Infini · 27-09-2017 7:19pm

murphthesmurf wrote: »

What? Train drivers are on 60k a year easily. Thats one of the reasons the tram drivers wanted more.

Only way they can be on that is with overtime. Standard Contract is no more than €55000 last time I checked and that is at the top of the 10y scale too.

Infini · 27-09-2017 7:26pm

tayto lover wrote: »

It is every workers right to seek better pay and conditions.
I respect that right.

Problem is there's people who dont like this fact simply because it inconveniences them or theyre jealous of the pay too. Wether people like it or not thats a constitutional right. Noone exactly likes going out on strike either but sometimes it has to be done because otherwise noone will take anyone seriously or they stonewall.

bk · 27-09-2017 7:46pm

end of the road wrote: »

dublin metro being driverless won't make a difference to pay claims, as there will be staff in some form involved, and they will at some stage look for a pay rise, and likely go on strike for it.

I think it would make a massive difference. You would be talking about just a few control staff, rather then lots of drivers.

Admin/control staff generally seem to have a much more positive relationship with management then drivers typically do. They have pay claims of course, but you far less often see them go out on strike.

Plus it would be much easier to operate 24/7

bk · 27-09-2017 7:49pm

Infini wrote: »

Problem is there's people who dont like this fact simply because it inconveniences them or theyre jealous of the pay too. Wether people like it or not thats a constitutional right. Noone exactly likes going out on strike either but sometimes it has to be done because otherwise noone will take anyone seriously or they stonewall.

Lots of industries have employee councils, that negotiate excellent pay, without strikes being the first port of call. Frankly their seems to be far too much politicalism and militarism around public transport unions, rather then working with the management.

Hilly Bill · 27-09-2017 8:33pm

murphthesmurf wrote: »

What? Train drivers are on 60k a year easily. Thats one of the reasons the tram drivers wanted more.

Drivers are just one section of the company.

Jamie2k9 · 27-09-2017 8:35pm

Infini wrote: »

Problem is there's people who dont like this fact simply because it inconveniences them or theyre jealous of the pay too. Wether people like it or not thats a constitutional right. Noone exactly likes going out on strike either but sometimes it has to be done because otherwise noone will take anyone seriously or they stonewall.

It's gotten to the stage now it's like a hobby for many :P

Jamie2k9 · 27-09-2017 8:38pm

tayto lover wrote: »

It is every workers right to seek better pay and conditions.
I respect that right.

and employers right to seek increased productivity in return for the cost.

end of the road · 27-09-2017 8:40pm

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

and employers right to seek increased productivity in return for the cost.

sure, nobody said otherwise. however productivity can only go so far.

Jamie2k9 · 27-09-2017 8:42pm

end of the road wrote: »

sure, nobody said otherwise. however productivity can only go so far.

Well unions have offered nothing so far and have said they won't....

Working class heroes · 27-09-2017 8:43pm

end of the road wrote: »

sure, nobody said otherwise. however productivity can only go so far.

A bit like money.

devnull · 27-09-2017 8:45pm

bk wrote: »

Lots of industries have employee councils, that negotiate excellent pay, without strikes being the first port of call. Frankly their seems to be far too much politicalism and militarism around public transport unions, rather then working with the management.

Some of them though have no idea how to negotiate, I was in a company where there was a collective redundancy situation and we had a vote on who would be our reps with the management to negotiate terms among about 60 employees who were losing their job, I was one of the (few) to be kept on (and ended up worse off than if I had been the rep, in the end but that's another story)

The two people who were voted already had agreed other jobs elsewhere so were crap negotiators because they had something else lined up. They ended up getting little more than statutory redundancy and were elected based on being friends of a lot of people rather than their negotiation skills.

The company had budgeted for up to statutory + a golden handshake of another 6 weeks pay I found out a few hours before the rep vote from a document left on the printer that I saw accidentally but obviously I couldn't tell anyone as I was one of few people with access to the HR printer and it'd be obvious who it came from.

End result is the staff got staturoy + a week when they could have got another 5 weeks if they dug their heels in hard enough as it was fully costed. I've since been on the end of being the person negoiating settlements on a companies behalf and I tell you, the vast number of people on councils haven't got a clue and can't negotiate to save their life whereas on the other hand the unions push it to the other extreme as we are seeing with IR.

GM228 · 27-09-2017 9:04pm

Talks have broken down, ballot for strike is to proceed with.

Jamie2k9 · 27-09-2017 9:08pm

GM228 wrote: »

Talks have broken down, ballot for strike is to proceed with.

Well this is a total shocker :rolleyes:

murphthesmurf · 27-09-2017 9:10pm

end of the road wrote: »

yes, because they had a claim in for a long time.

why not.

wrong, not Massively over paid for a job you couldn't train a chimpanzee to do. correctly paid for a very very responsible job, for which the market requires such a wage.

irrelevant. it's still a very responsible job and will command a high wage.

it is a responsible job yes. however the pay claims are nothing to do with each other.

no they don't. none of the companies pay claims are related.

pointless as it would cause quite a lot of up-evil which would last a long long time, for strikes to still happen. waste of time money and all else for a 1 day strike.

only the ones at the very top of the scale are on that wage, and i have no doubt overtime is a part of that. the rest are on a lot less.

Do you think train drivers, tram drivers, and bus drivers don't watch the news and read the papers? Of course they do, and they see what the workers in similar roles are getting. A train driver watching the news and sees that the tram drivers have gotten a rise to be on the same as him is obviously going to start thinking he should be on more. If I found out someone doing a similar job to me got a raise I'm going to think I should too. It's common sense. They were probably planning pay rises anyhow but obviously everyone else in the transport industry getting a raise is going to influence them.
It's an easy skill less job, yes there are a lot of people on board. But your main challenge is staying awake. Bus Eireann drivers have a far more difficult job, and have the responsibility of the safety of everyone on board the bus and everyone else on the road. They have to negotiate cyclists, pedestrians, cars, lorrys etc. Tram drivers have a very easy job, but have to look for pedestrians and some other traffic. Train drivers not so much, but more people on board.
The market does not require the wage, if they leave where are they going to go? There is only one train company in Ireland, it's not like there is a shortage like there is for pilots. Unlike pilots who pay thousands for long intense training, you could learn to drive a tram or train in 10-15 minutes. If I got into a tram tomorrow having never been in one I could drive it without being shown anything.
It is unskilled work that countless people would do for less than the people currently employed. Government should bite the bullet and say enough is enough. Let it go bankrupt , close it down, start a fresh private company and everyone has to re-apply for their jobs.

Unions warn of train strike as staff demand pay increase

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