N2 - Clontibret to NI Border [preferred route published; ABP in 2022]

marno21

Shane Ross has confirmed that in addition to Ardee-Castleblayney, TII have reactivated the N2 scheme from Clontibret to the border, including bypasses of Monaghan town and Emyvale. This will also tie in with the A5 dualling from Ballygawley to the Border.

https://www.kildarestreet.com/wrans/?id=2017-09-20a.1597

Scheme will start with feasibility study & route selection pending funding.

Donegal Storm

That's talking about the N59? I looked through the questions but couldn't find any relevant one

Is there to be a new Monaghan bypass or just upgrading the existing to 2+2?

L1011

Donegal Storm wrote: »

That's talking about the N59? I looked through the questions but couldn't find any relevant one

Is there to be a new Monaghan bypass or just upgrading the existing to 2+2?

A new bypass as the current one was effectively a temporary sticking plaster. I believe the new one will also let the N54 bypass the town centre.

The new roundabout on it for the fire station realistically opens the bypass to become a distributor road for the town anyway.

There was a batty local campaign to stop it when this was first mentioned, 8 years ago or so on the basis that it was "bypassing the bypass". Just like we've had to do repeatedly when the original bypass was inappropriate - Kinnegad, Swords, Drogheda, Dundalk, Limerick, New Ross....

marno21

Sorry, correct link here: https://www.kildarestreet.com/debates/?id=2017-09-20a.472

Donegal Storm

Good to hear, I came across this which I assume is now obsolete but gives an idea of route possibilities at least. The yellow route in particular would cut loads of time off the journey

https://monaghan.ie/roadtransport/wp-content/uploads/sites/15/2016/12/N2C2NIPublicConsultationNo.2BrochureEnglish630x297Web.pdf

L1011

L1011 wrote: »

A new bypass as the current one was effectively a temporary sticking plaster. I believe the new one will also let the N54 bypass the town centre.

The new roundabout on it for the fire station realistically opens the bypass to become a distributor road for the town anyway.

There was a batty local campaign to stop it when this was first mentioned, 8 years ago or so on the basis that it was "bypassing the bypass". Just like we've had to do repeatedly when the original bypass was inappropriate - Kinnegad, Swords, Drogheda, Dundalk, Limerick, New Ross....

I know about most of those but was there a Drogheda bypass at any stage?

L1011

Deleted User wrote: »

I know about most of those but was there a Drogheda bypass at any stage?

The DC on the west side of the Boyne was considered a bypass originally.

L1011

L1011 wrote: »

The DC on the west side of the Boyne was considered a bypass originally.

Where's that sorry?

nordydan

Deleted User wrote: »

L1011 wrote: »

The DC on the west side of the Boyne was considered a bypass originally.

Where's that sorry?

In the town itself, maybe a mile long. There a McDonalds on it

L1011

Deleted User wrote: »

Where's that sorry?

Called James Street/R132 here

https://www.openstreetmap.org/search?query=drogheda#map=16/53.7138/-6.3512

The N1 originally ran through the town centre; this inner relief road was considered a bypass. It was actually effective enough but further development ensured the need for a full bypass quick enough and that took ages.

Ah OK, as far as I know I'm too young to have not crossed the river on that bridge. :P It's fairly obvious where there were realignments in from Monasterboice but I didn't realise they built that close to the town centre so recently.

BelfastVanMan

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Ah OK, as far as I know I'm too young to have not crossed the river on that bridge. :P It's fairly obvious where there were realignments in from Monasterboice but I didn't realise they built that close to the town centre so recently.

It was 1976 I think James Street was dualled.

Middle Man

BelfastVanMan wrote: »

It was 1976 I think James Street was dualled.

Yes, I also think it was 1976 (Narrow West Street to the Shop Street Bridge via the then new bridge). The Shop Street Bridge itself was renewed around 1981 and Mary Street was widened to DC around 1986.

marno21

TII have confirmed through Shane Ross that route selection has recommenced on this scheme: https://www.kildarestreet.com/wrans/?id=2017-11-22a.105

marno21

Phases 1-4 of this scheme have now gone to tender (feasibility study, route selection, design & statutory process). The ball is now rolling on this scheme.

https://irl.eu-supply.com/app/rfq/publicpurchase.asp?PID=128940

There was some work done on this in the past which may help fast track it: https://monaghan.ie/roadtransport/n2-clontibret-to-northern-ireland-border-rd-scheme/

Aontachtoir

Thanks Marno, great news. Wonderful to see this advancing.

Has there been any talk of eventually upgrading the 2+1 section between Castleblayney and Clontibret? I imagine it'll probably the last part of the entire M1/N2/A5 route to be fully dualed, but I believe it could probably be done at minimal cost and inconvenience, looking at the amount of land which was taken at the time it was built.

marno21

Aontachtoir wrote: »

Thanks Marno, great news. Wonderful to see this advancing.

Has there been any talk of eventually upgrading the 2+1 section between Castleblayney and Clontibret? I imagine it'll probably the last part of the entire M1/N2/A5 route to be fully dualed, but I believe it could probably be done at minimal cost and inconvenience, looking at the amount of land which was taken at the time it was built.

I think they will do that as soon as the two SC sections either side are done. Aside from poor regional access in the north west, there is a major safety dividend from these two schemes due to the amount of fatal accidents on the N2.

I'd imagine Castleblayney-Ardee & Clontibrer-Border done as 2+2 by 2025 then a focus on the rest; that includes the N33.

Next up must be solving the continuing objections holding up the A5. Having continuous motorway/DC from Dublin to Emyvale is great but the glorified cattle track north of there needs doing too

Delightful that the entire of the N2 from Ardee to the border will be DC in some shape or form soon.

roadmaster

The tender below for a new bridge on the N2 outside monaghan , Why would they not have left it to be included in the N2 Clontibert to the Border?. Or will this road end up not just be retrofitting but we will see greenfield development?

https://irl.eu-supply.com/app/rfq/publicpurchase_frameset.asp?PID=134027&B=ETENDERS_SIMPLE&PS=1&PP=ctm/Supplier/publictenders

Actually thinking about it they will have to build on greenfield as you would never fit a retrofit 2+2 on that section of road

marno21

roadmaster wrote: »

The tender below for a new bridge on the N2 outside monaghan , Why would they not have left it to be included in the N2 Clontibert to the Border?. Or will this road end up not just be retrofitting but we will see greenfield development?

https://irl.eu-supply.com/app/rfq/publicpurchase_frameset.asp?PID=134027&B=ETENDERS_SIMPLE&PS=1&PP=ctm/Supplier/publictenders

Actually thinking about it they will have to build on greenfield as you would never fit a retrofit 2+2 on that section of road

That bridge simply can't wait for a project that may never happen

This N2 scheme won't start until 2022 at the earliest so it's likely the cost of the bridge will have paid itself back by then

roadmaster

marno21 wrote: »

That bridge simply can't wait for a project that may never happen

A Marno from your previous posts i always taught you where an optimist!

I would have bit of hope this project will go ahead with the following position being advertised currently

https://monaghan.ie/humanresources/2018/08/02/project-liaison-officer/

L1011

That is for two projects, the other of which is the one to be delivered first most likely.

roadmaster

L1011 wrote: »

That is for two projects, the other of which is the one to be delivered first most likely.

Yip one man for the two projects is no issue. It just shows they are moving forward with it. I wonder what will happen at the border at auhnacloy will the road be narrowed down similar to the western end of the mullingar bypass to two lanes or would a roundabout be built just before the bridge. In an ideal world the A5 to the border would be built the same time and they would merge seamlessly together.

marno21

roadmaster wrote: »

marno21 wrote: »

That bridge simply can't wait for a project that may never happen

A Marno from your previous posts i always taught you where an optimist!

I would have bit of hope this project will go ahead with the following position being advertised currently

https://monaghan.ie/humanresources/2018/08/02/project-liaison-officer/

Indeed but realism trumps optimism here, and if the N2 scheme got held up by NIMBYs or An Taisce and at the same time a defective bridge collapsed there would be war.

That N2 scheme won't open until 2028 or so at the current rate projects are going at.

marno21

roadmaster wrote: »

Yip one man for the two projects is no issue. It just shows they are moving forward with it. I wonder what will happen at the border at auhnacloy will the road be narrowed down similar to the western end of the mullingar bypass to two lanes or would a roundabout be built just before the bridge. In an ideal world the A5 to the border would be built the same time and they would merge seamlessly together.

The plan at Aughnacloy is to link this N2 scheme directly to the new A5 dual carraigeway in NI, as in they will meet at the border at the one spot, a bit like how the N1 border is handled between Dundalk and Newry. Final route selection on both schemes will be done in tandem.

Carawaystick

It's hard to see how any could plan for the border, when the tory eejits haven't a clue what the border is gonna be.

marno21

Tender for Phases 0-4 awarded to Jacobs. And we're off

https://irl.eu-supply.com/app/rfq/publicpurchase_frameset.asp?PID=128940&B=ETENDERS_SIMPLE&PS=2&PP=ctm/Supplier/PublicTenders

Kermit.de.frog

Will this be motorway/hqdc like the A5?

There should be a motorway from Derry to Dublin.

BelfastVanMan

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Will this be motorway/hqdc like the A5?

There should be a motorway from Derry to Dublin.

It will be 2+2 Type 2 dc.

The north's HQDC is a different standard altogether; think Motorway, minus the hard shoulders and with purely Compact GSJs.

marno21

It'll be Type 2 DC, and current traffic levels of 6200 AADT along this stretch are even pushing it for DC let alone motorway.

lucernarian

marno21 wrote: »

It'll be Type 2 DC, and current traffic levels of 6200 AADT along this stretch are even pushing it for DC let alone motorway.

It's a stretch to see how 6k traffic usage can warrant any kind of dualling. And the section from Monaghan-Clontibret is perfectly adequate for the volume and safety record aspects. The Monaghan "bypass" itself is not exactly ideal, but a solution for N54 <-> N2 traffic would help matters in the short term much more than a better N2 bypass. Encroachment may not be an issue when population growth is lower than national average, and population is aeging. I'm struggling to see the strategic value of this improvement within the next 20 years, based on those traffic volumes and existing surface/width/safety record.

marno21

lucernarian wrote: »

It's a stretch to see how 6k traffic usage can warrant any kind of dualling. And the section from Monaghan-Clontibret is perfectly adequate for the volume and safety record aspects. The Monaghan "bypass" itself is not exactly ideal, but a solution for N54 <-> N2 traffic would help matters in the short term much more than a better N2 bypass. Encroachment may not be an issue when population growth is lower than national average, and population is aeging. I'm struggling to see the strategic value of this improvement within the next 20 years, based on those traffic volumes and existing surface/width/safety record.

N2 is a recurring safety issue and there is a large percentage of HGVs along the route. It's also Government policy to prioritise access to the North West. The NDP includes dualling approx 75km of the N2, 35km of the N3 and 65km of the N4, along with the entire N14 in Donegal and contributing to the A5.

JupiterKid

It's great to see any msjor road project moving ahead in these times of interminable delays to schemes, but given the uncertainty over the A5 project and the urgent need for the M20 between Cork and Limerick and the N4 between Mullingar and Longford, I do find the fast tracking of this particular scheme rather odd in terms of prioritisation.

marno21

JupiterKid wrote: »

It's great to see any msjor road project moving ahead in these times of interminable delays to schemes, but given the uncertainty over the A5 project and the urgent need for the M20 between Cork and Limerick and the N4 between Mullingar and Longford, I do find the fast tracking of this particular scheme rather odd in terms of prioritisation.

M20 is being prioritised ahead of both those two, which are currently receiving equal prioritisation (M20 first, N2 and N4 are on the same foot at present).

spacetweek

I would be another that would question the prioritisation of this scheme. 2+2 is overblown for this route beyond Castleblayney and there may be a hard(er) border north of Monaghan in future. Practically anywhere in the country is a higher priority than this!

roadmaster

spacetweek wrote: »

I would be another that would question the prioritisation of this scheme. 2+2 is overblown for this route beyond Castleblayney and there may be a hard(er) border north of Monaghan in future. Practically anywhere in the country is a higher priority than this!

i was on it Monday night and there was a huge amount of HGV traffic. when you consider the amount money the government wastes on other things i have no problem in money being spent on over specking a road if it means saving a few people from dying

marno21

Lets clear this up for once and for all.

For the National Development Plan, TII examined all of the national primary network that at the time did not have active improvement schemes proposed. From this, 22 projects were chosen to be progressed through Phases 1-4 of the process. These projects were picked based on the following criteria

* Connecting cities and urban areas of scale: this applies more so to other project such as the N24 however this project ticks the box in that it connects Letterkenny to Dublin, two settlements with populations of greater than 10,000

* Safety - head on collisions. Big red flag here. Four sections of the national road network were flagged for being particularly bad for head on collisions (N2 Ardee-Border, N4 Mullingar-Longford, N22 Ballyvourney-Cork and N20 Cork-Limerick). All bar Ballincollig-Macroom were included

* Capacity - the section of this road in and around Monaghan Town will be at least 120% of capacity by 2030

* TEN-T - the N2 north of Ardee is part of the TEN-T comprehensive network

This scheme also ticked boxes in terms of accessing poorly served regions, completing missing links (there will be a missing link between the A5 at Aughanacloy and the M1 at Ardee/N33), improving employment accessibility and mitigating the effects of Brexit.

Whilst the traffic volumes on the N2 north of Castleblayney are quite low, it still carries over 10% HGVs, and will link directly into a dual carriageway this country is funding that is being built in a different country. The only projects in the NDP that are not overcapacity are these 2 N2 schemes and the Carrick-on-Shannon bypass. It is Government policy to improve access to the North West hence why these are being prioritised.

kingofburt

Thanks for that detailed explanation Marno, it is really interesting to read the stats and details on the road rather than depending on anecdotal evidence.

I do the journey a few times a week from north Dublin to Derry/Letterkenny getting an average speed of between 70 to 80 kph, great to know that upgrades are in the pipeline.

betistuc

(* Connecting cities and urban areas of scale: this applies more so to other project such as the N24 however this project ticks the box in that it connects Letterkenny to Dublin, two settlements with populations of greater than 10,000)

Marno means the N14 here folks!. The N24 connects Limerick and Waterford.

marno21

betistuc wrote: »

(* Connecting cities and urban areas of scale: this applies more so to other project such as the N24 however this project ticks the box in that it connects Letterkenny to Dublin, two settlements with populations of greater than 10,000)

Marno means the N14 here folks!. The N24 connects Limerick and Waterford.

No I meant the N24. The N24 would score higher for connecting large settlements as it connects two cities. However, the N2 still meets the criteria as it connects Letterkenny and Dublin, two settlements with populations larger than 10,000.

betistuc

Apologies Marno. You did indeed !

marno21

betistuc wrote: »

Apologies Marno. You did indeed !

marno21

https://irl.eu-supply.com/app/rfq/publicpurchase_frameset.asp?PID=142481&B=ETENDERS_SIMPLE&PS=1&PP=ctm/Supplier/publictenders

Tender issued for traffic surveys along the rote

sdanseo

Some funding which had been set aside for the NI section has been removed to help pay for the hospital disaster

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/republic-of-ireland/dublin-shifts-27m-of-a5-cash-to-tackle-hospital-overspend-37811331.html

marno21

marno21 wrote: »

https://irl.eu-supply.com/app/rfq/publicpurchase_frameset.asp?PID=142481&B=ETENDERS_SIMPLE&PS=1&PP=ctm/Supplier/publictenders

Tender issued for traffic surveys along the rote

Awarded to Tracsis. Presumably underway now.

Should be a scheme website up soon with details on the initial public consultation and some information on what's planned for the route.

marno21

Public consultations happening this month on this 28km section of N2 between Clontibret and the A5 at the NI border.

Jacobs are now working on a constraints study as part of Phase 1 of TII's Project Management Guidelines. Details are available on the scheme website

Project website now live at www.n2monaghanlouth.ie

An initial timeline has also been published

2019 - constraints study
2019 - route options development and publication
2020 - route options appraisal and publication of emerging preferred route
2020/2021 - confirmation of preferred route
2021/2022 - completion of design appraisal and statutory documents followed by submission to ABP following Government approval

marno21

Submissions after the public consultation have now closed (25th July). Route options to be published by year end as per above schedule.

roadmaster

A small Article on route selection
https://www.northernsound.ie/six-routes-identified-part-n2-upgrade-works/

marno21

roadmaster wrote: »

A small Article on route selection
https://www.northernsound.ie/six-routes-identified-part-n2-upgrade-works/

Thanks for the link

Full details available here: https://files.basekit.com/61/ea/61ea8c3a-cda7-4b7b-ae05-08071431cf4e.pdf

marno21

Post consultation report:

https://monaghan.ie/roadtransport/wp-content/uploads/sites/15/2020/08/Clontibret-to-the-Border-Road-Scheme.pdf

marno21

Emerging preferred route published

https://dsgis.jacobs.com/apps/n2monaghanlouth/c2b/C2B-BROCHURE%20AND%20INSERT%20COMBINED.pdf

Includes an online upgrade of the Clontibret bypass

Scheme is planned to be a Type 2 Dual Carriageway (2+2)

spacetweek

Glad to see they're being sensible and cutting the corner off at Monaghan town.
I hope they build this part before the southern leg, this is needed more.