Trans Using Dating App

never_mind

Nevaeh Thundering Mesh wrote: »

never_mind wrote: »

Wow.

What part of what I said was scientifically wrong that you quoted me twice and expressed your "awe"

Much science. Such awe. Much data used. V beneficial.

neonsofa

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Why should I have to explain my preference?

Why does a gay man not like women? Why do lesbians not like men? Because it's a preference. Just because I'm a straight male does not mean I should have to explain my preference.

No need to be so defensive.

I clarified the question you were being asked by the poster. I didn't ask you, for one. And secondly, nobody said you "have to" do anything. A poster simply asked you to elaborate on something you stated.

Penny Tration

Nevaeh Thundering Mesh wrote: »

What part of what I said was scientifically wrong that you quoted me twice and expressed your "awe"

In the eyes of our laws, a trans woman or trans man are the gender they identify as.


It may go against your beliefs, but that's the law and I don't think this is the thread for debating whether or not trans people are "really" their transitioned gender.




OP, I feel for you. Really, I do. I have a couple of trans friends, and I know one of them is online dating and finding it very difficult also, and that's in a big city.


Ultimately though, most cis men will not want to date a non-cis woman. Personally speaking, I wouldn't date a pre-op trans man because bluntly, I like penis. I may not date a post-op trans man because simply put, adults my age seem to have enough baggage and prior struggles, I'd rather date someone with as few struggles as possible.



However, there absolutely are some men (cis and non cis), who would date a trans lady. They're much fewer and further between than men who would prefer to date a cis woman, but there are some. Problem is finding them, unfortunately.


I think in Ireland, the dating scene is mostly extremely difficult for trans people. If you were able for it, I think that stating it on your profile would help, because you'd get men who dont give a monkeys about your sexual organs and where they bloody came from, but if you're not in a position to do that, I think you need to accept that most men won't be interested when they find out about your past.

In one post, you labelled these men as insecure, if I remember correctly? They're not insecure, they're simply not interested in dating someone who isnt a cis woman, and that's honestly gonna be the more common reaction.


As someone mentioned, have a look at TENI. A lot of LGBT groups are transphobic to an extent, so I think finding some groups specifically aimed at trans people could help. I'm not for a minute suggesting you should only date trans people or hang out with only trans people, but I think people in a trans group could give you far, far more helpful advice than the likes of a straight, cis woman like I could.


Best of luck, OP. I hope you find someone who loves you exactly as you are because as you said, you're just a woman seeking a man. Hopefully as attitudes in Ireland change, it won't be so difficult for ladies in your position.

milli milli

Lovelesslife wrote: »

I am sure many of you reading this will laugh at the idea and think of calling me all sorts of "mentally ill" - well, I've heard it all before and worse... So, **** it!

I am writing this only because I am lonely.

Sorry OP I haven't read the other replies so sorry if I'm repeating what others have said. I just wanted to reach out to you after reading your post.

You (and each one of us) deserves love. It doesn't matter who we are, what we look like, what gender we are, etc, etc.
If people are going to laugh at your situation then they really are showing themselves up to be ignorant and small-minded and should be pitied more than anything else.

I wouldn't be bothered too much about the dating sites. Most people find them frustrating to use - ghosting, slow fades, rejection, never meeting up, etc - most people will have experienced this, I don't think you need to be a trans person to experience the pointlessness of it.
But I do understand that your situation might make things harder. While maybe not the same thing, a lot of people online are also 'hiding' or 'concealing' something, whether that is their real age, actual height, whether they have children or even that they are already attached. Some are even pretending to be someone completely different! So it's a minefield really.

You say you're from a small town. Are you close to any city - Dublin, cork, Belfast? Or can you move to somewhere more cosmopolitan? It doesn't necessarily have to be abroad.
There you might find a better scene that might make meeting people easier.

I'm over 35 and looking for a partner and often thought of moving to a bigger city myself, as I'd have more choice there.
My dating pool would be quite small considering my age (well smaller than say a 25 year old).
I'm happy where I am, but love is important to me, so making a move might be on the cards if I don't meet someone where I live.
Anyway it's something to consider.
I really hope you find what you're looking for OP - best of luck

strandroad

Nevaeh Thundering Mesh wrote: »

A woman is born with XX , a man with xy. Redefining facts doesn't change them.

Wrong. Turner syndrome women are born with X only. Klinefelter syndrome men are XXY or XXXY, often remain unaware. Oh and Jacobs syndrome men are XYY.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Why should I have to explain my preference?

Why does a gay man not like women? Why do lesbians not like men? Because it's a preference. Just because I'm a straight male does not mean I should have to explain my preference.

If you're driving this at what I posted, I'm not asking you to explain your preference, I'm asking what the difference is? A woman is a woman. You like women, what's the difference?

leggo

[Deleted User] wrote: »

If you're driving this at what I posted, I'm not asking you to explain your preference, I'm asking what the difference is? A woman is a woman. You like women, what's the difference?

That is literally asking him to explain his preference. Stop. We all get the point you're trying to make. Nobody is convincing anyone here.

Lovelesslife1

Deleted User wrote: »

Tbh, I don't know what you mean. I've heard it argued that a person with gender dysmorphia would consider themselves their gender as their gender from birth, but that they are trapped in the wrong body.

This...

although, the larger transgender community don't like it when you use the word "trapped" it's how I felt/feel... Don't ask why - it's another can of worms...

Lovelesslife1

never_mind wrote: »

OP, as hard as it is to admit I think the best course of action is to make small steps to moving abroad to build a more positive life for yourself. Brighton would be the obvious option, but being Trans is what being gay was 15 years ago. I wouldn't want to spend my formative years in Ireland as a Trans person due to the lack of HSE support, societal ignorance, and misconceptions about the difference between gender and sex. You need to surround yourself with supportive people who see beyond this whole issue. I hope you are involved in a Trans support group of some kind, I know that OutHouse offer good services for Trans folk.

In terms of dating, I know that a lot of Trans women use the likes of Grindr and such. I would be upfront and put it on your profile description. I know this isn't how you want to start a conversation with someone but it might be easier to do this than to come out weeks down the road. A friend of mine has a similar issue in that he is Poz and has been tasked with the whole coming out as Poz and figuring out when was the time. While being Poz and Trans is completely two separate things, they are both stigmatized in the larger LGBT community. Your best bet is to be upfront, proud, and confident about who you are and to answer their questions if they have them.

You will get straight people who don't understand the issue and are 'not into' it - that's completely fine - but it's how they remark on your situation and how they engage with you that can be most cutting. Give it time, OP, Trans is going to be a non-issue in a few years just like being gay is today.

Edit: as an aside, my OH told me that two of her male friends on same night coincidentally hooked up with Trans women. Both guys are straight and enjoyed the experience from what I gathered. Sex and love are two different things but it's just showing me how things have changed... two straight lads bantering about being with Trans women is a step in the right direction (although, ya know, guys bantering about their conquests is a bit tack regardless)

Thank you for the thoughts.

The nearest city to me is Galway - there is a small community there - though the trans in the community reputation is poor to non-existent. I did try to reach out a while back to the nearest trans support group- but whoever was running it seemed very unreliable in returning phone calls, messages etc. So I eventually gave up.

Never heard of Grindr having a section for people who identify as female before - I imagine transvestites might get something from that experience but it's not for me, I don't think. I was under the impression that it's an app for gay and bi men, exclusively, no? I have tried using sites with trans options - not many Irish people even know about them and the ones that do are only there for fetish play it seems. So yes, I have looked around, in case you think I am being stubborn about it all.

As for you edit: well, I agree, it's kinda tasteless to talk about conquests - but I see what you are saying. Can't imagine either one of them (from what you said) wanting to take a transwoman home to the folks though.

Lovelesslife1

For all the XX, XY, XXY, XXXXY, X=MCSquared talk

I have never had my genes tested... and it is irrelevant to my feelings anyhow.

Tokyo

Mod:

Okay everybody - this thread isn't a lesson in biology, nor is it the place to debate what constitutes one genre or another. Please stop treating it as such.

OP, respectfully, you posted here for advice, and while you may not agree with every poster, part of posting in PI is that you are going to get a cross section of opinions, some that will align with your own thoughts, others that won't. Please stop shooting down any poster you don't agree with.

Lovelesslife1

leggo wrote: »

OP, I'm sorry, but you're knocking back everything everyone is saying and, though I've seen some stuff that is doubtlessly unintentionally offensive to you, everyone who has posted here is most definitely trying to help. The reality is that you're posting here. Like everyone who posts here, something is not working. And as it goes for everyone who is dating and not getting anywhere: if you keep doing what you've always done, you'll get what you've always gotten. So something has to give.

My dayjob is in a very LGBT friendly place which a lot of trans people frequent. A lot of them are in happy relationships. So it can be done, your circumstances are not a complete obstacle to finding love in Ireland. But the current method you're using isn't working, so if it's something you actually want then instead of trying to prove your negative (if understandable) world view (i.e. "I'm ****ed"), you're going to have to try something else and you've gotten loads of advice here on how you can do that. Maybe take some of it on board instead of arguing with everyone and telling them they don't understand. We're trying. Expanding the discussion by giving further insight into the day-to-day struggles you face can allow us to brainstorm with you and help further by being able to empathise, shutting down everyone's point as if they don't understand only provides an obstacle to further dialogue.

I am happy to hear you have met Trans people in loving relationships. Hopefully, one day I will too. And that's why I am putting myself out there as much as I can.

Not sure when I said "I'm ****ed" on here, though... I said, I get down, yes...

And I apologise if I don't want to hear another patronising biology lesson. Or people thinly veiling their dislike for trans people in a rant that sounds fabricated about a situation that has nothing to do with me.

Lovelesslife1

WhiteRoses wrote: »

I quoted the above as this is what I meant by my bit of "dubious allegory". I recounted the story about my friend because she is very defensive, as you are, and doesn't come across well when she's rejected because she's so oversensitive. I never said you misled anyone, or accused anyone of being transphobic.
I think you also missed the end part of my reply where I wished you the best of luck in finding a man who likes you for who you are.

Your story had nothing do with me. End of.

Lovelesslife1

silverharp wrote: »

If you get something out of it on coping that is great. For sure you have a right to seek out relationships but given that you appear to have a profile on a general dating app you are going to face a lot of rejection , its not a circle you can square.
There must be trans groups in Ireland , have you looked into any of them? would you date trans men?

As I answered another poster already. Yes, I would date a trans man - I am attracted to a certain type of masculinity not a set of genitals.

Lovelesslife1

silverharp wrote: »

I disagree, its just the way it is, why do you think someone like the OP cant get dates with men. You are left with the silly conclusion by your logic that nearly all men are transphobic because they wont date a trans person, this makes the term redundant. You shouldn't try to weaponise the term Transphobia , leave it to the realm of bullying or violence.

Sorry, but her comments were transphobic.

Lovelesslife1

leggo wrote: »

Yeah, I agree the term transphobia is getting thrown around very casually here. Is there misunderstanding and accidental insensitivity in this thread? 100%, but that's also the way of the world. It's a subject people find difficult to get their head around because most don't have a pre-existing database for growing up feeling like you were born as the wrong gender. But everyone here is trying the best they can to empathise and help, as well as giving the OP their own feelings if they encountered a trans person on a dating app. That mightn't be what she wants to hear, but it's relevant and definitely not transphobic. And it's also real and an insight into what others may be feeling too.

Validating the OP's feelings of victimisation might make her feel good in the moment, but it doesn't actually change or help her situation one bit, which is ultimately what she's looking to do by posting here. And insulting people who are doing their best to help by calling them transphobic doesn't help either.

I don't mind people telling me what I should expect by using these apps - but telling me I shouldn't be on them at all, is a bit rich.

Validating feelings of Victimisation? No. Understanding the problem with some people's tone and language, yes.

Lovelesslife1

eviltwin wrote: »

Don't give up hope OP. I'm a heterosexual woman and I'd have no problem dating a trans man. It wouldn't bother me at all and I'm sure I'm not alone. I think dating apps are a cold way to meet someone, your going on looks and you don't have the opportunity to get to know someone. Plus there is the kid in a candy shop mentality, why waste time on someone who doesn't tick your boxes when there is so much choice. There is someone out there for you, you sound like a lovely person xx

I think you are right about the whole "kid in a candy shop" mentality. I get guys from all over Ireland and even further afield messaging me - and I am sure they are using the same lines on any other girl that looks half decent to them too. Like a conveyor belt of pretty faces to choose from.

And I agree, it is a very cold way to try and meet someone. I do know many people these days do meet this way though. I'm not ready to stop trying, I guess..

Lovelesslife1

Penn wrote: »

You're unfortunately in a position where your dealbreaker is one that isn't going to take months for the other party to discover, one where they may be deep enough in the relationship at that point to try and fight their way past it. But I think ultimately, your best bet is to try and find the people it wouldn't be a dealbreaker for, and you're less likely to find that person a) by attracting them in a pub etc, b) in a smaller town, and c) by not maybe going on dating apps/sites where most people would be more inclined to not see the fact you're trans as being a dealbreaker.

Thing is, I don't go to a pub with the aim of attracting men - I go out to be with my friends. Men sometimes approach me... I can't do anything about that.

There are also very few respectful dating apps for trans women. And even less people know about them. I am doing my best to limit the damage, and yet keeping the possibility of finding a relationship alive, and that is all.

Lovelesslife1

can't log in wrote: »

There is no easy fix OP. Rural Ireland is not going to change fast enough. We can argue back and forth about the wrongs of that but you'll still be in the same situation. Dating in small pools is hard for anyone that doesn't fit a very specific mold. Everything from age, disability, family history etc etc comes into play when your in rural area. I'm a cisgender female in her 30s who doesn't want kids from a large family so everyone knows someone in my family and has prejudged opinions of me for my families actions or not having kids by 35, so I moved. Wasn't my first choice but the reality was the mindset of the small village was not going to change soon enough for me to get a date or just enjoy living my childless life.

I had the attitude of not wanting to have make such a big change to my life because of those circumstances but in the end reality just won out. You have to make the choice OP of either staying were you are and not being able to live as open as you would like or move away from family and friends but have more options. Honestly OP if there's nothing holding you to your location, move. You can visit family and even move back down the road maybe with a partner in tow but your situation is not going to change so you need to change it.

I sometimes get to Galway - the nearest city to me... But there is very little in the way of LGBT meet-ups even there.

Lovelesslife1

Ursus Horribilis wrote: »

Correct me if I'm wrong but most trans people are born with one set of genitalia. They develop in their gender of birth, then transition with the help of artificial means. Plastic surgery, hormones, medication etc. So while they get to be the gender they always wanted to be, you cannot just pretend their time as a male/female never happened. It's a ****ty hand to be dealt but you can't just pretend away the fact that they have/had genitalia of the opposite sex.

Correction: I've had no plastic surgery.

Lovelesslife1

Deleted User wrote: »

You know what I dislike about this? How someone saying "heterosexual men who have set their prefences on a dating site for biological women don't want to talk to trans people" somehow seems bad. It's like - am I homophobic for not wanting to sleep with a man because I'm straight?

Nobody here is saying that... please, just stop...

though I'm sure these same men you speak of, don't who want to talk to tanswoman in bars either - but they do...

As I asked someone earlier: Should I wear a signpost around my neck every time I want to go out for a drink too?

Deleted User wrote: »

People haven't said anything mean spirited or bad and yet the OP just isn't willing to listen to anything that is said in favour of them. The OP wasn't looking for advice.


Utter nonsense. Nobody has said anything transphobic. As I said, am I homophobic for saying I don't want to have sex with men? No. Because it's not my preference. So why is it transphobic to say that many men don't want date a transwoman?

What you are essentially telling me, is: I should not be allowed on dating sites - cause if might inconvenience an ultra hetero man like you for the space of a couple of text messages. If it helps put you more at ease - just write "no trans" or something to that effect, in your profile.

Lovelesslife1

milli milli wrote: »

Sorry OP I haven't read the other replies so sorry if I'm repeating what others have said. I just wanted to reach out to you after reading your post.

You (and each one of us) deserves love. It doesn't matter who we are, what we look like, what gender we are, etc, etc.
If people are going to laugh at your situation then they really are showing themselves up to be ignorant and small-minded and should be pitied more than anything else.

I wouldn't be bothered too much about the dating sites. Most people find them frustrating to use - ghosting, slow fades, rejection, never meeting up, etc - most people will have experienced this, I don't think you need to be a trans person to experience the pointlessness of it.
But I do understand that your situation might make things harder. While maybe not the same thing, a lot of people online are also 'hiding' or 'concealing' something, whether that is their real age, actual height, whether they have children or even that they are already attached. Some are even pretending to be someone completely different! So it's a minefield really.

You say you're from a small town. Are you close to any city - Dublin, cork, Belfast? Or can you move to somewhere more cosmopolitan? It doesn't necessarily have to be abroad.
There you might find a better scene that might make meeting people easier.

I'm over 35 and looking for a partner and often thought of moving to a bigger city myself, as I'd have more choice there.
My dating pool would be quite small considering my age (well smaller than say a 25 year old).
I'm happy where I am, but love is important to me, so making a move might be on the cards if I don't meet someone where I live.
Anyway it's something to consider.
I really hope you find what you're looking for OP - best of luck

Hi, Thanks.

Galway is the nearest city - I know a trans woman there and she's not really ever had any luck there either.

leggo

Lovelesslife1 wrote: »

I don't mind people telling me what I should expect by using these apps - but telling me I shouldn't be on them at all, is a bit rich.

Validating feelings of Victimisation? No. Understanding the problem with some people's tone and language, yes.

This is exactly what I mean by you feeling victimised. Your OP explains about how you are having no joy with dating apps and don't wish to state that you're trans in your bio, so people are suggesting that maybe apps aren't the way to go and you should try other routes. You're twisting that into them "telling you you shouldn't be on them." I have no doubt that that's genuinely how you're reading those words, but I'm reading the same words as you and they're absolutely not intended the way you're receiving them. That's a persecution complex: when you imagine people are attacking you when they're not. You're seeing it as an attack when they're genuinely trying to help you and throw ideas out there. What is it you wanted/expected from this thread if not that?

uck51js9zml2yt

Lovelesslife1 wrote: »

Nobody here is saying that... please, just stop...

though I'm sure these same men you speak of, don't who want to talk to tanswoman in bars either - but they do...

As I asked someone earlier: Should I wear a signpost around my neck every time I want to go out for a drink too?






What you are essentially telling me, is: I should not be allowed on dating sites - cause if might inconvenience an ultra hetero man like you for the space of a couple of text messages. If it helps put you more at ease - just write "no trans" or something to that effect, in your profile.

If it's so easy to put "no trans" on a profile why cants you put "trans" on yours?

Tenigate

Lovelesslife1 wrote: »

I don't mind people telling me what I should expect by using these apps - but telling me I shouldn't be on them at all, is a bit rich.

Validating feelings of Victimisation? No. Understanding the problem with some people's tone and language, yes.

Op, no one's saying you shouldn't be on dating apps. Just that they don't seem good for you.

Why? Because you're "in the closet" and unwilling to describe yourself as "trans". So even after matching, and getting a response, and breaking the ice, you face a 100/1 or higher chance of not being rejected.

I think you (jokingly?) suggested men should write "no trans" on their profile. You'll rarely see profiles that say "no blacks" or "no asians" because it would appear racist. Guys not interested will simply ignore them. Even after a lovely chat, upon finding out they'll either reply "not for me" or just stop replying or hit "unmatch"

Well, same principle with "no trans", except this will be the automatic preference for the vast majority of men. Unless they write "trans-friendly" or "trans to the front of the line" you should assume they mean "no trans"

People in this thread are getting bogged down by language, too. Is a trans woman a woman, the definition of woman, and gender, and identification, legal recognition, and how little genetics matter. This academic crap doesn't matter to a man who opens an online account in search of a woman.

Grindr is probably closer to what you're looking for, but it is more a hookup app. I'm sure there are apps for trans too but couldn't imagine there being too many users in Ireland.

So where does it leave you?

Well, and i suggest this to everyone.. counselling is a great start. And if you're serious about finding a relationship it could mean getting out of your comfort zone, so it's useful to plan a course of action and have someone to check in with.

Phone a trans resource in Ireland and tell them you'd like to chat, and your experience on dating apps.

Be willing to travel. If there are resources or workshops in Dublin, consider travelling there for a few nights. Similarly if Brighton was an option, it could be your next holiday destination.

lifeandtimes

Lovelesslife1 wrote: »

Never heard of Grindr having a section for people who identify as female before - I was under the impression that it's an app for gay and bi men, exclusively, no?.

But....you generally won't find a straight man who wants a relationship with a woman who was born with male genitalia/is trans. And I mean that in the nicest possible way

Yes the app is for gay and bi men so maybe a bi man might fit your criteria because you seem very open minded and you might be weeding out options by not checking st least? You say you like older masculine men then check out the app and maybe search those type of settings. Again other dating apps work for people who identify with their sex from birth. Also you have every right to put that you are a woman on your profile but as you are aware this will lead a lot of guys to your profile who unfortunately for you as you are trans, you aren't their type.

I for one don't like the apps and prefer to meet people out and about doing things but each to their own.

Spirogyra

I think there's still a 'fear of the unknown' 'the other' regarding trans-people in relationsips. Also a fear of being mocked by 'friends'. People do still think of 'genitalia' (what is or was there) and thats 'a fear' ;maybe irrational but still a 'fear' for a lot of people.

Dating Sites or Apps are not a great medium to 'overcome' these 'fears ' or misconceptions. If you encounter someone in the 'real world',you see them as a real person,who they really are. And it's possible that being trans could cease to be important or even forgotten,over time.

Find some 'meet-up groups' or activities that interest you and you'll certainly make friends.

Sadly the odds of being single as a transperson are higher. I've observed a lot of transpeople dating each other.

But 'on-line' not a good 'bet'.

LegacyUser

Online dating is very superficial and cruel. I am a guy who uses online dating and most people I message delete my message without even reading it. I can see this as I am a paying member of the site. The unread deletes are quite hurtful. I'm not the best looking guy in the world but I'm sure I have something to offer.
On the OPs situation, I think it is best to state upfront that you didn't always identify as female and are not fully biologically female.
By the way OP, I'd be delighted to meet a girl like you!

suicide_circus

OP I don't think tinder is for you. It isn't for a lot of people.

While you feel like and believe you are a woman and perhaps legally are a woman, I'm afraid you can't make others feel or believe it.

Dr Crayfish

So why don't you just tell the guys on these sites after a few messages that you're trans? If I was chatting to a girl for a day or two, and she told me this, I'd tell her I'm out but I'd hardly be bothered by it, it's not like I know the person.
Just tell them after a bit maybe - it's very unlikely they'll continue it but maybe someone will eventually. I honestly don't think a normal hetero guy would go out with a trans woman but what do I know, people are into all sorts. Are there websites for this kind of thing with men looking to meet trans women? There's websites for everything these days...