Trans Using Dating App

LegacyUser

Dear whomever

So I guess to start with I should state I am a transwoman. I prefer to identify simply as a woman, but for the purpose of this confessional I feel I must use the label I despise.

I am in my early 30s, I am lonely and sick of being this way. Which has led to me recently signing up for one or two dating apps to try and find a relationship. The last refuge for the damned, it seems.

And I'll add: I never had much hope that these apps would ever help me, but I am (again) sick of being alone.

Given the superficial nature of these things, I do initially attract a lot of male attention. Men message me quite frequently. I rarely initiate conversations, but I figure if they like what they see, and they seem very eager to chat, I'll see where it goes. I am not trying to trick anyone. I only want a chance at love [B/]

I do feel like I am wasting my time even entertaining conversations from would-be suitors on there, though, as eventually I will have to tell them of my status. And then it's usually all over but the crying. A typical reaction (without going into too much detail) usually ends with the other party somewhat shocked and saying something well-meaning (some complimentary thing about how "genuine" I look) which is actually deeply offensive - and all-and-all, amounts to a rejection. Another common reaction is the slow monosyllabic fade and ghost.

I sometimes think it would save me a lot of time and heartache if I just stated it clearly in my profile, but I live in a small town and I am using an app that shows people who are in close proximity to each other. And truth is, I am very recognizable and "coming out" to a whole community of nameless faces is not really a good idea - nor will it ever feel safe to do so. So I play the game. I exchange messages over the course of a few days, and if I get a sense that the other person is at least open-minded enough to hear it, I tell them. And always before anything serious can happen, like an actual meet. But to be honest, the constant rejection that always follows from mostly well-meaning guys is more damaging than anything else. As strange as it may seem, it's actually easier to take being verbally assaulted by random hate-filled bigots than it is dealing with this kind of nicely presented refusal.

I do not blame guys for rejecting me, though I do wonder how much the pervading social stigma of dating a "tranny" plays a part in Irish society. Then again, maybe I'm making excuses for myself with that explanation - I'm sure there is something more primal more biological at play.

Lately, I have been advised by friends and family to move abroad to try and find love, to a more accepting city, like London or Brighton. But I don't think that is a viable option for me. And I honestly don't think there is a solution for this problem.

I am sure many of you reading this will laugh at the idea and think of calling me all sorts of "mentally ill" - well, I've heard it all before and worse... So, **** it!

I am writing this only because I am lonely.

Thank you for reading

RhubarbCrumble

OP, just reading your post there you come across as a really nice person. You sound like you're a very caring, compassionate and loving person and I'm really sorry to hear that people have called you 'mentally ill'. That's such a horrible thing to say, but just remember that people like that are nothing more than small minded bigots.

Re: your situation about trying to meet someone. One of my work colleagues is male to female transgender and was in a similar situation. She joined a couple of dating sites and very similar story to yourself, struck up a few conversations but when she mentioned that she was transgender people backed off.
So she joined an LGBT group. I think it was through meetup.com. It wasn't actually a dating group, just a friendship group but she met her partner there and they've been together for about six months now, so maybe something like that might be an option for you?

You know something, to be honest I think dating sites can be awkward for lots of people, regardless of whether you're straight/gay/bisexual/transgender etc. An awful lot of people on there are just looking for one night stands etc as opposed to an actual relationship.

silverharp

Lovelesslife wrote: »

I do not blame guys for rejecting me, though I do wonder how much the pervading social stigma of dating a "tranny" plays a part in Irish society. Then again, maybe I'm making excuses for myself with that explanation - I'm sure there is something more primal more biological at play.

I don't think its an "irish" thing in fairness. I don't know what the number is but you are looking for 1 in a hundred or one in hundreds of men that would be prepared to date a trans woman. Your only advantage to moving to a big city is that there would be more (possibly) .
take the advice above and look into niche sites, putting your profile on a general site is just going to knock your self esteem to 0

OP, this is something that I've been talking about with people. I'm sure I'll get a lot of flack over this, but here we go -

There are a lot of trans people on online dating. Some identify as such, some don't. I personally feel it misleading if you do not.

You identify as a woman, but the reality is that you're biologically male (from your post, the assumption is that you are).

If you are on a dating site and are looking for men looking for women, then chances are that the vast majority of these are heterosexual men looking for people that are biologically female. People are talking to you under the presumption that you are this, when, in reality, you're not. I don't mean this in a mean spirited way, but it's understandable that some might "fade" or just show no interest.

It's a grey area, for sure, but if you are looking for a partner, then surely it's best if you identify that you are a transwoman on your profile? You'll likely limit the amount of rejection.

Tenigate

Op, going to chime in and say that most guys on dating apps who are looking for "women" are in fact looking for XX-biological-women-since birth.
I think you'll be less disappointed by being honest from the outset. & that goes for the poses and filters that hides a masculine nose or adam's apple. You don't have to call yourself a "tranny" so pick your least objectionable euphemism and write it on your profile.

tcif

OP, I get to some extent what some of the previous posters have said about the perception that it's misleading not putting your biological status on your profile but to be honest, dating sites/apps are full of people not giving the whole picture up front. Whether it's pretending to be younger/thinner/richer than they are to the ones pretending to be single and looking for a relationship when in actual fact they're married and looking for a bit on the side, which in my book is a far more dishonest and potentially harmful misrepresentation and one where lots of people get hurt.

From reading your post I don't think you're trying to misrepresent yourself in any dishonest way. You just want a chance to meet someone and see where it leads without hanging a label on yourself from the outset for all the world to see. Completely understandable but I think you're going to hit the same stumbling block over and over where you get past the initial chat, then open up before you meet to get thanks-but-no-thanks.

I think RhubarbCrumble gave you good advice - try meetup.com or something similar to get out and meet people socially and if you meet someone you share that spark with they'll have a chance to get to know you first, before the transgender question comes up, rather than the other way around on the app approach.

LegacyUser

Online dating is a minefield at the best of times OP so I'm afraid there is no easy fix to it. Being up front in a profile might seem like a good idea but could open you up to abuse both online and in person if it's one of the dating apps that shows rough location or it may attract guys who see dating someone who is transgender as fetish which will not help your personal mental health. Moving away is also not going to be a quick fix, cities like London have larger populations yes but still high levels of discrimination against transgenders but a larger dating pool may help though there are a lot of pros and cons to moving outside of just dating.

There are options like using gay apps that allow filters for being transgender but again it may lead to meeting people who see it more as a fetish like crossdressing then you being yourself. I would avoid dating apps like tinder and look at more developed online dating sites that allow for better, more detailed profiles and introductions. They are more likely going to be pay sites which can reduce the number of local people using them. I've a friend whose disabled who tried tinder for a while and got a similar reaction of nice guy rejection once she told them but meet someone via e harmony. Sites like Mesh etc try to focus on transgender dating but depending were you are again you may find a limited pool of local people using that site.

Saying all that putting yourself out there on dating sites requires having a pretty good sense of your own self worth as you are pretty much putting yourself on show and asking people to like you at the base of it so for your own mental health I'd make sure you are in a place that you are happy with your own self before putting yourself out there. Most people get a lot of rejection on dating sites in general and you have to increase that number due to being transgender. Have you any community that you are part of? Other transgender friends or LGBTQ groups? Consider looking to join a group like that for support, to build up the confidence and feeling of self worth you need before putting yourself out on the dating scene.

tcif

tcif wrote: »

OP, I get to some extent what some of the previous posters have said about the perception that it's misleading not putting your biological status on your profile but to be honest, dating sites/apps are full of people not giving the whole picture up front. Whether it's pretending to be younger/thinner/richer than they are to the ones pretending to be single and looking for a relationship when in actual fact they're married and looking for a bit on the side, which in my book is a far more dishonest and potentially harmful misrepresentation and one where lots of people get hurt.

To me, there's a huge difference between pretending to be younger/thinner/richer and stating that you're a gender that you're biologically not.

That's all it comes down to, in my opinion; on a dating site, people who have set their preferences to male looking for female are largely heterosexual and looking for biological female.

tcif

Deleted User wrote: »

That's all it comes down to, in my opinion; on a dating site, people who have set their preferences to male looking for female are largely heterosexual and looking for biological female.

I agree, which is why I said I don't think this is necessarily going to be the best route for the OP to find a relationship.

Deleted User wrote: »

To me, there's a huge difference between pretending to be younger/thinner/richer and stating that you're a gender that you're biologically not.

Again I agree. But if someone tells me they're single and available and they're married and not, that to me is as big a deal breaker as finding out they're not the gender/orientation I thought they were. I would also consider it a lie told in much worse faith than someone not immediately telling me they were trans. But I understand that's a personal perspective and other people would see it differently.

All I was saying is that I sympathise with the OP's dilemma in that not saying it up front will likely continue to lead to more rejections in the same vein, but likewise I can understand her wanting to not have to publicly reveal that to everyone who knows her just to try to get a date.

SusieBlue

Deleted User wrote: »

OP, this is something that I've been talking about with people. I'm sure I'll get a lot of flack over this, but here we go -

There are a lot of trans people on online dating. Some identify as such, some don't. I personally feel it misleading if you do not.

You identify as a woman, but the reality is that you're biologically male (from your post, the assumption is that you are).

If you are on a dating site and are looking for men looking for women, then chances are that the vast majority of these are heterosexual men looking for people that are biologically female. People are talking to you under the presumption that you are this, when, in reality, you're not. I don't mean this in a mean spirited way, but it's understandable that some might "fade" or just show no interest.

It's a grey area, for sure, but if you are looking for a partner, then surely it's best if you identify that you are a transwoman on your profile? You'll likely limit the amount of rejection.

I agree with this. I know someone who is gender fluid but mainly identifies as female. She was talking to a guy online for awhile but wasn't up front about her gender. The guy finally realised when they went on their first date, and was no longer interested and cut contact.
She retaliated by telling everyone he was transphobic and isn't it sad that in this day and age people still act like that etc, basically implying he was the lowest of the low. In truth, the guy probably wasn't transphobic at all and lost interest because he realised he wasn't getting what he had signed up for.
And who could blame him for that. Had always been the biggest supporter of the girl in question but the whole thing made me see her in a different light.

I think your best bet is to be as honest as possible. You will meet real, genuine men who like you for who you are. Best of luck to you.

Bambi985

I think online dating is a minefield in a general sense, never mind if you're a transgender woman. Between people lying about their age, weight, career and relationship status to the filtered or aged photographs and everything in-between, they can be damaging to anyone's self-esteem and self-image.

I think they're also places where the visual is first and foremost, far above who you are as a person or what you have to offer. For example, my last ex and all the ones previous are guys that I probably wouldn't have "swiped right" on had I seen them on tinder, but because I got to know them as individuals with all of their radiant personality attributes and an in-person chemistry that wouldn't be detectable online, none of those superficials that determine a "left or right swipe" came into it.

So my advice to you would be to get offline, basically. Do as another poster advised and join some meetup.com groups, look into LGBT groups and see how you can expand on your interests and make friends and potentially meet men in real life. I find in the real world who you are and how you conduct yourself matters more than those things that people put on a list of "must-haves" when it comes to swiping through dating profiles online.

baby and crumble

It's certainly a minefield, OP. I know now if I met a woman (I'm a lesbian) who identified as female but maybe hadn't fully transitioned yet (and I know lots of trans folks don't feel the need to have surgery), it probably wouldn't bother me but I certainly think it'd take me some time to be comfortable with the sexual aspect of things, simply because I'd be... em... faced with equipment I've never really read the manual for . So I'd have to really find the person attractive mentally to take that step- it takes a lot of trust on everyone's part. Unfortunately from what I hear, it is a lot more likely folks using online dating apps are looking for something a bit more casual.

I really would 2nd the suggestion of going along to some LGBT or at least LGBT friendly events/nights- you're slightly more likely to find folks who aren't as attached to gender norm (although the community at large is kinda grossly likely to be transphobic, sadly).

WhiteRoses

WhiteRoses wrote: »

I agree with this. I know someone who is gender fluid but mainly identifies as female. She was talking to a guy online for awhile but wasn't up front about her gender. The guy finally realised when they went on their first date, and was no longer interested and cut contact.
She retaliated by telling everyone he was transphobic and isn't it sad that in this day and age people still act like that etc, basically implying he was the lowest of the low. In truth, the guy probably wasn't transphobic at all and lost interest because he realised he wasn't getting what he had signed up for.
And who could blame him for that. Had always been the biggest supporter of the girl in question but the whole thing made me see her in a different light.

I think your best bet is to be as honest as possible. You will meet real, genuine men who like you for who you are. Best of luck to you.

I know this is probably against the rules but... really? What an utterly horrid person.

LegacyUser

Deleted User wrote: »

I know this is probably against the rules but... really? What an utterly horrid person.

Please, don't try conflate this ridiculous behaviour with mine. It is fairly obvious from your first reply you have an issue with transwomen... but just don't... I am not gender fluid, nor have I ever accused a man of being transphobic over a romantic rejection.

Thanks

LegacyUser

A better term than 'biological' is 'at-birth assigned' male or female. Transition alters one's biology, with h.r.t (hormone replacement therapy' and a pathway to surgery, biology does change to a certain extent. I am trans and I know is a term I prefer than 'biological male' . It's not really how I see myself, I don't think many trans-women would enjoy the term 'biological male' ( I know no offence was intended and none is take, I'm just suggesting what might be 'better' to use ).

Regarding dating I think a lot of people have too many 'pre-conceptions' when they hear that one is transgender , on-line. (Obviously it is true that one cannot become pregnant and have biological children too and a lot will want this ). I gave up on 'on-line dating' a long time ago.


Just a few points not in any particular order


I do think though that in person, in the 'real world' people see you and get to know you as a person, a person whose company they might really enjoy and 'pre-conceptions' can disappear. If there is things that interest you ,( 'Parkrun' I think is great and the Parkrun community,) I'd recommend pursuing those and 'meet people', try to be social and friendly if you can. You can meet 'good people'. I don't think pubs are neccesarily the greatest places either unless part of an occasion, party etc

I think sadly there is a higher chance of being single, a lot more of the time. So no guarantees. But I think that 'real-world' activities are 'a better bet'. People get to 'know you' , not a 'stereotype'.

(There is also some good 'on-line friendship' sites, you never know there. I have made friends, best to say trans from the start though. )

Just my 'ten cents' and good luck

LegacyUser

Hello, OP again

I would like to thank some of you for your kind and considered replies; others, not so much...

So, there seems to be a lot of presuming going on here - on how I behave (and possibly how most people behave) on dating apps - i.e - acting in a deceitful manner, regarding photos and filters and hiding masculine traits and such. Well, no, despite what you might actually want to believe, I use recent photos that are untouched. Truth is, I am pretty. Straight men approach me in real life, just as they do dating apps, because they find me attractive - not bragging, just a matter of fact. When it happens on the street or in bars I am very wary: I do not encourage it, for fear they hold similar views as some of the respondents here. From those kind of guys (even the ones who think they are being sensitive and open-minded): at best, I'll get a lecture about chromosomes and a veiled attack on my identity; at worst, a kicking. So I avoid men as best I can on a night out - and there is not a chance I would make a move on a strange man in those type places.

My behaviour on dating apps is quite conservative, I have a profile, including some witty nonsense and some honest pictures of myself - and, yes, men initiate conversations with me, and not the other way around. And I will not "out" myself to an entire community just so a few insecure men can feel safer online. I am not daft, I do not go on first dates without telling them well in advance in private messages of my status. I have a conversation with the guy and assess if he is worth telling or not - i.e. is he likely to verbally abuse me after or not. I do not lead him on. I do not wait until he might have developed feelings for me. I either let him know or end the conversation.

I have tried meet-up. Not much LGBT stuff in my area, to be honest. Not sure I will find a partner at an LGBT group anyhow - as B&C alluded to, there is transphobia in that community. And if you are presuming gay men would be interested in me - you'd be dead wrong. And I'm not really into women, though I wish I was.

Honestly, I can't see myself moving to another part of the world - I don't really have money to move to a big city, and I am reliant on the HSE for my HRT.

But thanks again to those who responded objectively, without bringing their own prejudices into the conversation.

LegacyUser

WhiteRoses wrote: »

I agree with this. I know someone who is gender fluid but mainly identifies as female. She was talking to a guy online for awhile but wasn't up front about her gender. The guy finally realised when they went on their first date, and was no longer interested and cut contact.
She retaliated by telling everyone he was transphobic and isn't it sad that in this day and age people still act like that etc, basically implying he was the lowest of the low. In truth, the guy probably wasn't transphobic at all and lost interest because he realised he wasn't getting what he had signed up for.
And who could blame him for that. Had always been the biggest supporter of the girl in question but the whole thing made me see her in a different light.

I'm sorry, but what has that piece of allegory have to do with my situation?

I have not behaved in this manner - and I am not gender fluid.

leggo

Putting aside the trans thing for a moment: they say you should never go shopping when you're hungry. And, similarly in my experience, when loneliness is something you're feeling it's usually a recipe for disaster going on dating sites. I don't know what it is, but when you're looking for someone it's typically when there's NOBODY around. And I think it's because people can pick up on that on a very subconscious level, maybe without even realising. When you feel great about yourself and aren't even trying, that's when people start falling into your lap whether you want it or not. I think you're coming at this from a low emotional state, then taking the knocks that can come with online dating in general (for all people not just given your situation), that's putting you into a further low state and it's becoming a vicious cycle.

On the issue you're finding with being trans: whether you realise it living in a small town or not, you're a part of a community in the LGBT community. I can't honestly come on here and give you any practical dating advice without, most likely, unknowingly offending you. But there are plenty of people who can and who face the same obstacles as you. Embrace that. Boards has an LGBT forum with others no doubt in a similar position, there will be websites and message boards out there filled with people going through it and some who've found practical solutions that could turn your life around. I know you don't like to identify as trans, and nobody is questioning or challenging that you are a woman, but in embracing the things that make you unique you can also feel better by talking to people who are in similar spots and have come out the other side.

I read your post and feel that part of the problem is a self-acceptance one (even saying stuff like you despise the label), and that's totally understandable given how much you've worked and gone through to be able to see the person you feel you are inside in the mirror. But you seem to be fighting that journey instead of embracing that it made you the person that you are today, and inherent in that is something that may come off as deceptive to some people or, whatever the case may be, isn't getting you the end results you desire. So perhaps embrace the fact that you are both a woman and a trans woman, and try to be proud of that because it no doubt took strength and courage to get to where you are, and I feel that your life could improve dramatically in this and many other departments.

MarriedButBi

OP you come across as a very kind, caring, sensitive person. Hang in there and the right person will come along. There are more and more people out there that are open minded about gender, they are looking for a good person, someone they are attracted to, and this is not necessarily gender based. Best of luck to you!

seenitall

Hi OP,

I will speak plainly here: single hetero men, by and large, want to meet adult human beings with vaginas, so they can put their penises in there. Biological imperative is a very powerful thing. I can personally testify to its power as a heterosexual woman: every now and again, I get this strange urge for my vagina to be filled in with a human penis, and that even as I am rapidly approaching my non-reproductive years (I may even be there already). It is very strong stuff, and majority of people are actually subject to it.

This is just to say, you have to be realistic here, and find your niche, find your tribe, your crowd, the ones among whom you will be considered as a valid sexual and emotional choice. Because a niche it will be, and that's just the way it is, and not necessarily sad or negative.

Leave off meeting men online, for your own benefit and mental well-being; get active in meeting people in more niche groups, making friends and building up your self-esteem as a worthwhile emotional and sexual human being. Accept yourself and seek out those that will accept you. That's what's important.

I'd bet that this is where you will find love and happiness, just like a poster upthread described about their acquaintance; I recommend Meetup too - that's where I found my OH, as well

Good luck; you'll be fine.

Lovelesslife1

Hi

Op here.

I had to make an account to reply as my attempt to reply to you all has been delayed by moderation.

I would like to thank some of you for your considered and sensitive replies. Others, not so much.

To those suggesting I try meet.up: I have done this, there are no significant LGBT groups in my area. And as one user said, there is a undercurrent of transphobia in a lot of these communities to begin with anyhow. Also, for anyone who may be under the misconception that gay men are interested in me - they are not, nor I them.

To people suggesting I am somehow being deceitful in my dating app behaviour by using doctored photos to hide masculine attributes: Well you are making a lot of assumptions based on your own stereotypes and prejudices. Truth is, I am pretty and men are attracted to me - whether online or on the street or in a pub. I do not encourage men to approach me in bars and clubs etc. as it would be far too risky in that kind of environment. At best I would get a lecture on how I am not a real woman and some stuff about chromosomes; at worst, I may be physically assaulted for no other reason than a man was attracted to me. So I do not take those chances. I feel at least with dating apps, I can have a sobre conversation with a guy and then if I feel safe/comfortable enough to tell him, I will. And if I am not comfortable with him, I won't and I'll end the conversation, him being none the wiser. I am not daft, I would never go on a first date with a guy without him knowing the deal. And as I said I do not blame guys who reject me - nor do I accuse them of being "transphobic". I get upset with myself and predicament, yes. But I can't give-up. And again, I don't see why I should have to label myself, and consequently "out" myself, to a whole host of strangers just so a few insecure men can feel safer when cruising for sex. I am not hurting anyone. I want a relationship, that is all. I know men find me attractive and funny and intelligent - so I have to crawl through miles of **** to try find someone who values all that despite the flaws, I am willing to keep trying. And I make no apologies for the way I go about pursuing this goal. Yes, it gets me down at times. When I wrote this initial post I was lower than I have been in a while. I feel better today.

I will reply separately and directly to some of your responses, shortly.

Thank you.

Lovelesslife1

seenitall wrote: »

Hi OP,

I will speak plainly here: single hetero men, by and large, want to meet adult human beings with vaginas, so they can put their penises in there. Biological imperative is a very powerful thing. I can personally testify to its power as a heterosexual woman: every now and again, I get this strange urge for my vagina to be filled in with a human penis, and that even as I am rapidly approaching my non-reproductive years (I may even be there already). It is very strong stuff, and majority of people are actually subject to it.

Yes, thank you for the biology lesson. a biological imperative - but I am also aware relationships don't only boil down to sets of genitalia. You are most certainly onto something in terms of procreation and one night stands, though. And I am sure there are both men and women out there with genital defects that will be glad to hear your reassuring words as well.

I imagine, we are also assuming I have not had an operation.

seenitall wrote: »

This is just to say, you have to be realistic here, and find your niche, find your tribe, your crowd, the ones among whom you will be considered as a valid sexual and emotional choice. Because a niche it will be, and that's just the way it is, and not necessarily sad or negative.

First off: "your tribe"? I was unaware I had a tribe nor a "crowd" for that matter. Am I not a human like the rest of you?

Also, I am very realistic in what hope to find -despite what you may think. There are hetero men willing to date me on these sites. They may be few in number, but what you are basically telling is to give up and leave the heteros alone.

seenitall wrote: »

Hi

Leave off meeting men online, for your own benefit and mental well-being; get active in meeting people in more niche groups, making friends and building up your self-esteem as a worthwhile emotional and sexual human being. Accept yourself and seek out those that will accept you. That's what's important.

I'd bet that this is where you will find love and happiness, just like a poster upthread described about their acquaintance; I recommend Meetup too - that's where I found my OH, as well

Good luck; you'll be fine.

I am as active as I can be. I do meetup stuff, but I assume from your earlier bit of advice, that I should stick to my own "tribe" on there too, then? Yes?

Anyways, you probably mean well. Thank you for the words.

Lovelesslife1

Tenigate wrote: »

Op, going to chime in and say that most guys on dating apps who are looking for "women" are in fact looking for XX-biological-women-since birth.
I think you'll be less disappointed by being honest from the outset. & that goes for the poses and filters that hides a masculine nose or adam's apple. You don't have to call yourself a "tranny" so pick your least objectionable euphemism and write it on your profile.

I do not have a masculine nose. Nor any other prominent male facial features. But thanks for the stereotypes, TENIgate (K).

Lovelesslife1

WhiteRoses wrote: »

I agree with this. I know someone who is gender fluid but mainly identifies as female. She was talking to a guy online for awhile but wasn't up front about her gender. The guy finally realised when they went on their first date, and was no longer interested and cut contact.
She retaliated by telling everyone he was transphobic and isn't it sad that in this day and age people still act like that etc, basically implying he was the lowest of the low. In truth, the guy probably wasn't transphobic at all and lost interest because he realised he wasn't getting what he had signed up for.
And who could blame him for that. Had always been the biggest supporter of the girl in question but the whole thing made me see her in a different light.

I think your best bet is to be as honest as possible. You will meet real, genuine men who like you for who you are. Best of luck to you.

What has this bit of dubious allegory got to do with my story?

I am not gender fluid; I live my life in accordance with the way I identify (woman); I would never mislead a man and go on a first date with him; and I have never accused a man of being transphobic in an instance where he has rejected me romantically.

Lovelesslife1

Deleted User wrote: »

I know this is probably against the rules but... really? What an utterly horrid person.

This questionable tale has nothing to do with me - and quite frankly, by commenting on it, all you are doing is conflating these two disparate scenarios.

You have already made it quite clear how you feel about people like me on dating sites. Thank you for your input.

Lovelesslife1

RhubarbCrumble wrote: »

OP, just reading your post there you come across as a really nice person. You sound like you're a very caring, compassionate and loving person and I'm really sorry to hear that people have called you 'mentally ill'. That's such a horrible thing to say, but just remember that people like that are nothing more than small minded bigots.

Re: your situation about trying to meet someone. One of my work colleagues is male to female transgender and was in a similar situation. She joined a couple of dating sites and very similar story to yourself, struck up a few conversations but when she mentioned that she was transgender people backed off.
So she joined an LGBT group. I think it was through meetup.com. It wasn't actually a dating group, just a friendship group but she met her partner there and they've been together for about six months now, so maybe something like that might be an option for you?

You know something, to be honest I think dating sites can be awkward for lots of people, regardless of whether you're straight/gay/bisexual/transgender etc. An awful lot of people on there are just looking for one night stands etc as opposed to an actual relationship.

If I may ask: was her partner male or female identified?

And as I said, there is one LGBT meetup group in my area - and it is very much inactive. And I did attend the one meet they had - it was one other person (the founder of the group). We really didn't get along all that well either.

Lovelesslife1

silverharp wrote: »

I don't think its an "irish" thing in fairness. I don't know what the number is but you are looking for 1 in a hundred or one in hundreds of men that would be prepared to date a trans woman. Your only advantage to moving to a big city is that there would be more (possibly) .
take the advice above and look into niche sites, putting your profile on a general site is just going to knock your self esteem to 0

The plausibility of me leaving Ireland is almost nil. I have no money; I am reliant on the HSE for my hormone treatment. Dublin maybe - but again the logistics of packing up and moving there is not really that appealing.

And as I said, I've tried meetup.

But thank you.

lifeandtimes

Ok I've read your most recent replies and you seem quite defensive to the advice peoppe are giving you.

The truth is the main advice of being honest from the start is the best option for you. Honesty is the best policy.

Your issue of men finding you attractive, chatting you up through the app and the ghosting you after you tell them you are trans has a very simple solution. Be honest from the stsrt. These men are looking for woman who were born woman and when you tell them they go away because you aren't what they are looking for.
If you put it out there you are trans then you will get the people contacting you who are looking for a trans woman. The attracting to your physical appearance and personality go hand in hand.

Don't be disheartened as there is someone out there for you but if you have no luck on the app join clubs or societys of things you like and your hobbies,thats how a lot of people find partners and the good thing is from the get go you already speaking face to face and building rapours with men.

Another thing I will say is if you are in a small locality unfortunately there's nothing you can do about running out of possible suites as that's just life in a small town. Country folk have to deal with that which is why the move to bigger cities

Anyway good luck op. Looking for love sucks but keep trying and you'll find the love of your life

seenitall

Lovelesslife1 wrote: »

Yes, thank you for the biology lesson. a biological imperative - but I am also aware relationships don't only boil down to sets of genitalia. You are most certainly onto something in terms of procreation and one night stands, though. And I am sure there are both men and women out there with genital defects that will be glad to hear your reassuring words as well.

I imagine, we are also assuming I have not had an operation.



First off: "your tribe"? I was unaware I had a tribe nor a "crowd" for that matter. Am I not a human like the rest of you?

Also, I am very realistic in what hope to find -despite what you may think. There are hetero men willing to date me on these sites. They may be few in number, but what you are basically telling is to give up and leave the heteros alone.



I am as active as I can be. I do meetup stuff, but I assume from your earlier bit of advice, that I should stick to my own "tribe" on there too, then? Yes?

Anyways, you probably mean well. Thank you for the words.

Yes, absolutely, my advice would be stick with the profile of a person or a social group where you are less likely to feel rejected, unappreciated, passed over than with some others. I hadn't the slightest idea that I would offend you with the terms such as your tribe or your crowd (these are for me affectionate terms for a social group such as my own!), I am sorry if I did.

I am a single mother who had felt deeply lonely for years, also whenever I was looking, I couldn't find that special someone. I didnt think of myself as a catch and certainly, neither did men. It took for me to put my loneliness out of my mind, deprioritise it, and start changing my life inside out, before he came along. I worked on myself, on my self esteem, and I started being proactive about meeting people and hanging out with people who I clicked with. I founded my own Meetup group, and my OH was one of the people who showed up on the very first evening! we bonded over some marginally niche interests. And my group is still going strong.

That's just some well-meaning advice, OP. I certainly didn't mean to offend you or hurt your feelings. I know how tough loneliness is, and I know just how much rejection can sting. The best of luck to you.

Lovelesslife1

seenitall wrote: »

Yes, absolutely, my advice would be stick with the profile of a person or a social group where you are less likely to feel rejected, unappreciated, passed over than with some others. I hadn't the slightest idea that I would offend you with the terms such as your tribe or your crowd (these are for me affectionate terms for a social group such as my own!), I am sorry if I did.

I am a single mother who had felt deeply lonely for years, also whenever I was looking, I couldn't find that special someone. I didnt think of myself as a catch and certainly, neither did men. It took for me to put my loneliness out of my mind, deprioritise it, and start changing my life inside out, before he came along. I worked on myself, on my self esteem, and I started being proactive about meeting people and hanging out with people who I clicked with. I founded my own Meetup group, and my OH was one of the people who showed up on the very first evening! we bonded over some marginally niche interests. And my group is still going strong.

That's just some well-meaning advice, OP. I certainly didn't mean to offend you or hurt your feelings. I know how tough loneliness is, and I know just how much rejection can sting. The best of luck to you.

No, I appreciate it... I just want a chance of a normal relationship. I mean, I realise it's extra complicated for me. But I still feel the same way you say you felt for years. And I have worked on self-esteem, it's the only reason I can actually put myself out there.

I guess " community " was the word you were searching for - but to be honest, for someone in my position there's not a huge pool of perspective partners to be found there either. So I appreciate you reply and your concern for my own self-esteem and worth - but I don't really have many other options.


Thank you, though, sincerely.

Lovelesslife1

lifeandtimes wrote: »

Ok I've read your most recent replies and you seem quite defensive to the advice peoppe are giving you.

The truth is the main advice of being honest from the start is the best option for you. Honesty is the best policy.

Your issue of men finding you attractive, chatting you up through the app and the ghosting you after you tell them you are trans has a very simple solution. Be honest from the stsrt. These men are looking for woman who were born woman and when you tell them they go away because you aren't what they are looking for.
If you put it out there you are trans then you will get the people contacting you who are looking for a trans woman. The attracting to your physical appearance and personality go hand in hand.

Don't be disheartened as there is someone out there for you but if you have no luck on the app join clubs or societys of things you like and your hobbies,thats how a lot of people find partners and the good thing is from the get go you already speaking face to face and building rapours with men.

Another thing I will say is if you are in a small locality unfortunately there's nothing you can do about running out of possible suites as that's just life in a small town. Country folk have to deal with that which is why the move to bigger cities

Anyway good luck op. Looking for love sucks but keep trying and you'll find the love of your life

Thank you, and you are right. I feel some people were bringing in to this conversation off-topic accounts of things and people and events who may or may not exist or have happened. I do not appreciate that association.

I think I am as honest as I need to be with guys on there, to be fair. I never let the conversation get too deep before revealing. I just assess how I think they would react to the revelation. Again, I do not think I should have to divulge my trans status to everyone and their mother - just 'cause. Ghosting is bad, yes. What's worse is when they state they are not interested and still want to chat about the thing they have just rejected to be honest.


Anyways, I appreciate the overall kindness of your message. Thanks.

Have to say I find most of the replies to this thread pretty disheartening. It seems the OP is going to be judged by the accident of her birth and not the content of her character. That's a lousy way to tell anyone about how to find a relationship and frankly, it's only coming up because some of the posters are more or less saying she isn't a full woman (I assume that's what the phrase "biological woman" is shorthand for) or the assumption she hasn't had reassignment surgery.

At best, some of the replies are shallow and at worst some of them are verging on transphobic. The assumption seems to be that OP will always be judged by what's between her legs as opposed to who she actually is (while the posters have no idea what's between her legs).

OP, unfortunately I think your best bet for a relationship is probably in Dublin because it appears Irish society is still pretty hung up on the accident of your birth. I know that is a lonely thing to have to face but anyone who judges you for how you were born and not who you are isn't worth your time anyhow. Relationships, real relationships, live and die by the person's attraction to another's character as much as anything else, all you can be is be the best version of yourself and keep trying to meet as many people in as many difference scenarios as possible.

uck51js9zml2yt

Lovelesslife1 wrote: »

Thank you, and you are right. I feel some people were bringing in to this conversation off-topic accounts of things and people and events who may or may not exist or have happened. I do not appreciate that association.

I think I am as honest as I need to be with guys on there, to be fair. I never let the conversation get too deep before revealing. I just assess how I think they would react to the revelation. Again, I do not think I should have to divulge my trans status to everyone and their mother - just 'cause. Ghosting is bad, yes. What's worse is when they state they are not interested and still want to chat about the thing they have just rejected to be honest.


Anyways, I appreciate the overall kindness of your message. Thanks.

You're putting it all at the door of the guys who reject you when they find out your aren't biologically female.

The facts appear to be that you are being deceptive in your approach by not identifying what you are up front as many of these guys wouldn't spend there time conversing with a non biological woman.
Id assume there are people who would contact you if they knew the truth up front but won't as they would assume you are female.

Lovelesslife1

Nevaeh Thundering Mesh wrote: »

You're putting it all at the door of the guys who reject you when they find out your aren't biologically female.

The facts appear to be that you are being deceptive in your approach by not identifying what you are up front as many of these guys wouldn't spend there time conversing with a non biological woman.
Id assume there are people who would contact you if they knew the truth up front but won't as they would assume you are female.

Look at it from this perspective. I walk into a bar; a man approaches me and starts chatting to me.

Am I obligated to just shout out my status to some random guy who has just started talking to in the middle of a pub? Or should I just wear a signpost around my head saying I am trans all the time to save you a small moment of inconvenience? Because, basically, that's what you are telling me to do.

I am a woman - regardless of what you say. I have certain extraordinary circumstances, yes. But these circumstances are not the first thing I should ever have to disclose to anyone, in a pub nor in any other social setting either (including online).

Lovelesslife1

Deleted User wrote: »

Have to say I find most of the replies to this thread pretty disheartening. It seems the OP is going to be judged by the accident of her birth and not the content of her character. That's a lousy way to tell anyone about how to find a relationship and frankly, it's only coming up because some of the posters are more or less saying she isn't a full woman (I assume that's what the phrase "biological woman" is shorthand for) or the assumption she hasn't had reassignment surgery.

At best, some of the replies are shallow and at worst some of them are verging on transphobic. The assumption seems to be that OP will always be judged by what's between her legs as opposed to who she actually is (while the posters have no idea what's between her legs).

OP, unfortunately I think your best bet for a relationship is probably in Dublin because it appears Irish society is still pretty hung up on the accident of your birth. I know that is a lonely thing to have to face but anyone who judges you for how you were born and not who you are isn't worth your time anyhow. Relationships, real relationships, live and die by the person's attraction to another's character as much as anything else, all you can be is be the best version of yourself and keep trying to meet as many people in as many difference scenarios as possible.

I am trying. Thank you.

tomwaterford

Lovelesslife1 wrote: »

Look at it from this perspective. I walk into a bar; a man approaches me and starts chatting to me.

Am I obligated to just shout out my status to some random guy who has just started talking to in the middle of a pub? Or should I just wear a signpost around my head saying I am trans all the time to save you a small moment of inconvenience? Because, basically, that's what you are telling me to do.

I am a woman - regardless of what you say. I have certain extraordinary circumstances, yes. But these circumstances are not the first thing I should ever have to disclose to anyone, in a pub nor in any other social setting either (including online).

Tbf anyone online dating is looking for the one thing (dating) anyone ya meet/talk to on a night out,could be just up for the craic chat away etc...so imo both are very different social settings


But I did spend a while living in a city,which would have a large trans population and did briefly use tinder when I was there first and youd always see it somewhere in their profiles written (with certain statements about not being fetish/wanting abuse...something to consider?)


I dont mean to be harsh,but your not doing any yourself any favours by not disclosing this very early/in profile as your just delaying the inevitable by not disclosing this (as tough/hard as it may be in a small town setting)

Lovelesslife1

tomwaterford wrote: »

Tbf anyone online dating is looking for the one thing (dating) anyone ya meet/talk to on a night out,could be just up for the craic chat away etc...so imo both are very different social settings


But I did spend a while living in a city,which would have a large trans population and did briefly use tinder when I was there first and youd always see it somewhere in their profiles written (with certain statements about not being fetish/wanting abuse)


I dont mean to be harsh,but your not doing any yourself any favours by not disclosing this very early/in profile as your just delaying the inevitable by not disclosing this (as tough/hard as it may be in a small town setting)

Well, you just said it yourself - I don't want fetishists

I also don't want abuse. I live in a small area with lots of narrow minds And John lives there. And John just so happens to have recently joined a dating app; and before I had a chance to block John he has viewed and liked my profile; John who lives down the road, just less than 1km away (as I am reliably informed by the GPS the dating site uses); John who happens to be a complete asshole; John, who I see almost every day when I walk to the bus stop - John who I don't want knowing I'm trans.

GingerLily

Lovelesslife1 wrote: »

Well, you just said it yourself - I don't want fetishists

I also don't want abuse. I live in a small area with lots of narrow minds And John lives there. And John just so happens to have recently joined a dating app; and before I had a chance to block John he has viewed and liked my profile; John who lives down the road, just less than 1km away (as I am reliably informed by the GPS the dating site uses); John who happens to be a complete asshole; John, who I see almost every day when I walk to the bus stop - John who I don't want knowing I'm trans.

I don't think you should be using tinder in that case, are there more discreet dating sites you could try to avoid the "John's" down the road?

lifeandtimes

Lovelesslife1 wrote: »

Look at it from this perspective. I walk into a bar; a man approaches me and starts chatting to me.

Am I obligated to just shout out my status to some random guy who has just started talking to in the middle of a pub? Or should I just wear a signpost around my head saying I am trans all the time to save you a small moment of inconvenience? Because, basically, that's what you are telling me to do.

I am a woman - regardless of what you say. I have certain extraordinary circumstances, yes. But these circumstances are not the first thing I should ever have to disclose to anyone, in a pub nor in any other social setting either (including online).

Well this man would more than likely be looking to chat up a woman who was born a woman.

No one is saying you aren't a woman however in that sense there are 2 type of women, ones born with the woman's equipment and the ones born with men's. That guy in the bar is usually looking for the former. That's just the world we live in and it's not their fault or yours it just what people want. How would you feel if a man you were chatting to and got in well with told you there were born a woman and didn't have a penis etc? Would you be happy or would you feel a bit let down or decived?

Also being in a small town you shouldn't be on an app if you don't want people knowing who you are.

Take the advice here, you can find love, I doubt in the small town your in but at least try other things like clubs, groups etc in a different local then, the right guy just won't fall into your lap if you use an app in a small town when you don't disclose you are a trans woman when they are looking for a woman born as a woman.

You have so much to offer you just need to branch out

njs030

Can we stop using terms like "woman who was born a woman" please? It's a bit insulting even though I doubt you mean it to be.
If you need to say something use cisgender or cis meaning someone who's gender matches the one they were assigned at birth.
The op is a woman and that's the end of it.

Op you've come a long way and overcome a lot to get to where you are and it's a shame people don't see that, unfortunately that's probably not going to change fast enough for you.

I would agree that you're probably better off moving to Dublin or even going there for nights out and join meet up groups where you can get to know people slowly over time and they can see who you are rather than judge who you were!

Lovelesslife1

lifeandtimes wrote: »

Well this man would more than likely be looking to chat up a woman who was born a woman.

No one is saying you aren't a woman

You just did...

lifeandtimes wrote: »

How would you feel if a man you were chatting to and got in well with told you there were born a woman and didn't have a penis etc? Would you be happy or would you feel a bit let down or decived?

If I liked them, it really wouldn't matter. The chances of meeting a transman are far less likely than even a transwoman - but yeah, I really wouldn't have a problem as long as they were the yin to my yang - shall we say. I'm attracted to masculinity, not just a set of genitalia.

lifeandtimes wrote: »

Also being in a small town you shouldn't be on an app if you don't want people knowing who you are.

Really? Well, give me one good reason why I should not be allowed use of an app, that isn't based in prejudice and bigotry?

lifeandtimes wrote: »

Take the advice here, you can find love, I doubt in the small town your in but at least try other things like clubs, groups etc in a different local then, the right guy just won't fall into your lap if you use an app in a small town when you don't disclose you are a trans woman when they are looking for a woman born as a woman.

You have so much to offer you just need to branch out

No, I won't be taking any of your advice. But thanks.

Lovelesslife1

GingerLily wrote: »

I don't think you should be using tinder in that case, are there more discreet dating sites you could try to avoid the "John's" down the road?

I don't use Tinder. But I have tried a lot of sites... and honestly, same guys on all of them..

notjustsweet

notjustsweet wrote: »

Can we stop using terms like "woman who was born a woman" please? It's a bit insulting even though I doubt you mean it to be.
If you need to say something use cisgender or cis meaning someone who's gender matches the one they were assigned at birth.
The op is a woman and that's the end of it.

Op you've come a long way and overcome a lot to get to where you are and it's a shame people don't see that, unfortunately that's probably not going to change fast enough for you.

I would agree that you're probably better off moving to Dublin or even going there for nights out and join meet up groups where you can get to know people slowly over time and they can see who you are rather than judge who you were!

Truth be told, most folks consider a ‘woman’ to be an adult born with the genitalia and sexual organs necessary to carry a child.

I’d wish no harm to anyone, but trying to tell people that man and woman means something else isn’t going to help with the OP’s issue.

If you use a dating site, aged as the OP is in her early 30’s, you’re going to have to accept that a lot of men looking for a female in that age range may be thinking about relationships, children etc.

That’s not something that should be ignored. You do nobody any favours if you try to put these things off and you simply shouldn’t be surprised or upset that guys aren’t best equipped or experienced to deal with your revelation down the line.

Lovelesslife1

leggo wrote: »

Putting aside the trans thing for a moment: they say you should never go shopping when you're hungry. And, similarly in my experience, when loneliness is something you're feeling it's usually a recipe for disaster going on dating sites. I don't know what it is, but when you're looking for someone it's typically when there's NOBODY around. And I think it's because people can pick up on that on a very subconscious level, maybe without even realising. When you feel great about yourself and aren't even trying, that's when people start falling into your lap whether you want it or not. I think you're coming at this from a low emotional state, then taking the knocks that can come with online dating in general (for all people not just given your situation), that's putting you into a further low state and it's becoming a vicious cycle.

On the issue you're finding with being trans: whether you realise it living in a small town or not, you're a part of a community in the LGBT community. I can't honestly come on here and give you any practical dating advice without, most likely, unknowingly offending you. But there are plenty of people who can and who face the same obstacles as you. Embrace that. Boards has an LGBT forum with others no doubt in a similar position, there will be websites and message boards out there filled with people going through it and some who've found practical solutions that could turn your life around. I know you don't like to identify as trans, and nobody is questioning or challenging that you are a woman, but in embracing the things that make you unique you can also feel better by talking to people who are in similar spots and have come out the other side.

I read your post and feel that part of the problem is a self-acceptance one (even saying stuff like you despise the label), and that's totally understandable given how much you've worked and gone through to be able to see the person you feel you are inside in the mirror. But you seem to be fighting that journey instead of embracing that it made you the person that you are today, and inherent in that is something that may come off as deceptive to some people or, whatever the case may be, isn't getting you the end results you desire. So perhaps embrace the fact that you are both a woman and a trans woman, and try to be proud of that because it no doubt took strength and courage to get to where you are, and I feel that your life could improve dramatically in this and many other departments.

It's hard to embrace a label that singles you out for abuse. If we lived in a more enlightened society, I would have no problem using the label - without fear or shame - sadly, we really, really don't.

Lovelesslife1

JayZeus wrote: »

Truth be told, most folks consider a ‘woman’ to be an adult born with the genitalia and sexual organs necessary to carry a child.

I’d wish no harm to anyone, but trying to tell people that man and woman means something else isn’t going to help with the OP’s issue.

If you use a dating site, aged as the OP is in her early 30’s, you’re going to have to accept that a lot of men looking for a female in that age range may be thinking about relationships, children etc.

That’s not something that should be ignored. You do nobody any favours if you try to put these things off and you simply shouldn’t be surprised or upset that guys aren’t best equipped or experienced to deal with your revelation down the line.

It's hardly down the line - I have a brief conversation with them - I usually let them know within the first few exchanges.

And not all men in their 30s, 40s etc are looking for kids - some already have them; some never want them. And not all women can have children - so your point is invalid really.

Lovelesslife1

Lovelesslife1 wrote: »

It's hardly down the line - I have a brief conversation with them - I usually let them know within the first few exchanges.

And not all men in their 30s, 40s etc are looking for kids - some already have them; some never want them. And not all women can have children - so your point is invalid really.

You’re the exception, not the rule. As are the women who are unable to have children. As are the men in their 30’s and 40’s who never want children.

You see, the point is actually completely valid, just not to your liking. I can understand that, but no matter how you feel or what anyone may say, any man who wants a female partner and has it in mind that they want to be a father some day is going to feel you’ve wasted their time on those 3-4 exchanges.

They’d be right too, which you can surely acknowledge at least to yourself.

lifeandtimes

Lovelesslife1 wrote: »

It's hardly down the line - I have a brief conversation with them - I usually let them know within the first few exchanges.

And not all men in their 30s, 40s etc are looking for kids - some already have them; some never want them. And not all women can have children - so your point is invalid really.

The point isn't though, all men.have their views of what a woman is for them and unfortunately for you on your app in yoyr small town the vast majority wouldn't consider you the woman they want to be with.

But in saying that there is definitely a man who is your type and you there type.

I'm going to bow out, I've tried to be honest and give advice to you from my perspective but I dint feel it's what you want to hear so good night and good luck. I really hope you meet someone and are happy op

Lovelesslife1

Are people going to just continue with the bleedin' obvious here. I mean, I get it: you don't see me as a proper woman. Not my fault the way I was born. And again, it's not my fault some of you think that I should be restricted on how I try to meet people and find love.

If a guy is a attracted to me initially, that again is not my fault. And if he chooses to pursue me that is his decision, I always inform him early (before feelings are formed) - and then its his individual decision - and I always respect that.

So how is it any different from any other person who withholds certain very personal information at the beginning?

Lovelesslife1

JayZeus wrote: »

You’re the exception, not the rule. As are the women who are unable to have children. As are the men in their 30’s and 40’s who never want children.

You see, the point is actually completely valid, just not to your liking. I can understand that, but no matter how you feel or what anyone may say, any man who wants a female partner and has it in mind that they want to be a father some day is going to feel you’ve wasted their time on those 3-4 exchanges.

They’d be right too, which you can surely acknowledge at least to yourself.

Honestly, most guys I speak to on there don't want children or have enough of them already. So that doesn't hold water, either.

Lovelesslife1

Lovelesslife1 wrote: »

Honestly, most guys I speak to on there don't want children or have enough of them already. So that doesn't hold water, either.

Honestly, that’s not how that works.

Just as an aside, in your OP you said you are lonely. I've been there. It's a hard place to be. I ended up reading a fair bit about it, including books on the subject and it's really fascinating. If you have the time or the inclination I would recommend a book actually called "Loneliness" by John Cacioppo. Here's a link to an interview with him. https://www.theguardian.com/science/2016/feb/28/loneliness-is-like-an-iceberg-john-cacioppo-social-neuroscience-interview

Giovanni Frazetto (researcher in Trinity fwiw) also wrote an interesting book sorta on the topic, called "Together, Closer". Science is only now really starting to come to terms with what it is to be lonely and how to solve it.

Loneliness can exist regardless of the relationship you are in. How is your life outside of relationships? Do you feel part of a community etc? There is plenty of lonely men and lonely women in this world unfortunately, and maybe people are focusing too much on you being transgender and not enough on you being lonely? Just a thought.