Ibrahim Halawa acquited(mod warning in op-Heed it)

First Up · 23-09-2017 7:15pm

Jawgap wrote: »

First Up wrote: »

Family bonds are strong in the Arab world.

As I understand it, they went "downtown" because they were outraged at the murder of 800+ protestors a few days before. Call them rash or call them couraguous depending on where you stand on that sort of thing.

Oh yeah......because family bonds are so weak in Ireland :rolleyes:

.....and I call them stupid.

Incidentally, a large chunk of my family are from Belfast and I certainly remember times (in the 1970s and 80s) when things got a bit fraught up there and the family there would advise us against driving up for whatever event we were travelling up for that formed that natural cycle of family life in Ireland.....

......isn't it a bit weird they insisted on travelling and no one, not their parents (who I don't doubt love and care for their welfare), not the family in Egypt, not one of the travelling group said "No. This is not safe. We don't want you travelling. Stay where you are and maybe we will come to you to get away from this madness."

Btw, do you really think it was wise travelling to the site where there had been the ".....murder of 800+ protestors a few days before"? Personally, if my kids where anywhere near that kind of massacre I'd be telling them to get their arses back on a plane.....not to stay there......but that's just me.

Yep, that's jut you.

Jawgap · 23-09-2017 9:00pm

First Up wrote: »

Yep, that's jut you.

Well actually it's not just me.....

.....it's me and at least 4 Guards that I know of......but frankly they're an awfully suspicious bunch (thankfully)

EDIT:..... oh, and a solicitor I happen to know very well who reckons there's a case to answer (in respect of why he travelled)......

atticu · 23-09-2017 9:37pm

So...
We know thus young fella has an Egyptian passport.
We know that he used his Egyptian passport to get into Egypt.

He needs to let us know why.

We know that Ireland should have stayed out of the internal affairs of a sovereign state, but didn't (see above about the passport).

Jawgap · 23-09-2017 9:48pm

atticu wrote: »

So...
We know thus young fella has an Egyptian passport.
We know that he used his Egyptian passport to get into Egypt.

He needs to let us know why.

We know that Ireland should have stayed out of the internal affairs of a sovereign state, but didn't (see above about the passport).

Personally, I think he used the Egyptian passport simply for convenience and because he was relaxed about whether he was "identified" as an Irish or Egyptian citizen.....

......I think he only became "wedded" to his Irish identity/citizenship when his venture went sideways.....or put it another way, if the whole thing hadn't gone tits up and he came through unscathed he'd be using the trip to curry favour and build a profile in the Egyptian community abroad....and he'd not have been too concerned about his "Irishness" - indeed I doubt he'd have been playing up the whole GAA-loving, Dublin teenager etc while carving out a niche as a leader of the MB-leaning Egyptian community abroad.

Have I any evidence to support this? Absolutely not, but it matches the facts as we know them almost as well as the family holiday story put about by apologists for him.

tomwaterford · 23-09-2017 9:50pm

Jawgap wrote: »

Personally, I think he used the Egyptian passport simply for convenience and because he was relaxed about whether he was "identified" as an Irish or Egyptian citizen.....

......I think he only became "wedded" to his Irish identity/citizenship when his venture went sideways.....or put it another way, if the whole thing hadn't gone tits up and he came through unscathed he'd be using the trip to curry favour and build a profile in the Egyptian community abroad....and he'd not have been too concerned about his "Irishness" - indeed I doubt he'd have been playing up the whole GAA-loving, Dublin teenager etc while carving out a niche as a leader of the MB-leaning Egyptian community abroad.

Have I any evidence to support this? Absolutely not, but it matches the facts as we know them almost as well as the family holiday story put about by apologists for him.

Maybe he was glad to have the irish passport as when originally arrested he faced the death penalty

I find it preposterous that someone could be vilified for doing all it takes to get out of that

Jawgap · 23-09-2017 9:56pm

tomwaterford wrote: »

Maybe he was glad to have the irish passport as when originally arrested he faced the death penalty

I find it preposterous that someone could be vilified for doing all it takes to get out of that

I'm sure he was delighted to have it. Plenty of politicians have been pilloried for treating citizenship as a commodity, which seems to be something the same as what was done here.

If he wanted the protection of the Irish passport, then why not travel on it? If it's valuable then surely it's worth the queue to get through whatever border checks are in place? Is expressing your Irish identity (if you really feel Irish) not worth a few minutes in an airport queue?

I've a US passport, but even when I go to the States more often than not I still travel on my Irish one.

tomwaterford · 23-09-2017 10:10pm

Jawgap wrote: »

I'm sure he was delighted to have it. Plenty of politicians have been pilloried for treating citizenship as a commodity, which seems to be something the same as what was done here.

If he wanted the protection of the Irish passport, then why not travel on it? If it's valuable then surely it's worth the queue to get through whatever border checks are in place? Is expressing your Irish identity (if you really feel Irish) not worth a few minutes in an airport queue?

I've a US passport, but even when I go to the States more often than not I still travel on my Irish one.

All this is for him to answer

Nonetheless,anyone posting on this thread wouldve done the same,if they found themselves in the position of facing a death penalty??

What's wrong with wanting to get out of a death penalty and using all available legal means?

Tbh it doesn't seem to have made any difference to him,only it highlighted the painfully slow Egyptian legal process

Jawgap · 23-09-2017 10:22pm

tomwaterford wrote: »

All this is for him to answer

Nonetheless,anyone posting on this thread wouldve done the same,if they found themselves in the position of facing a death penalty??

What's wrong with wanting to get out of a death penalty and using all available legal means?

Tbh it doesn't seem to have made any difference to him,only it highlighted the painfully slow Egyptian legal process

Another question for him to answer indeed.......

......but why not travel on the Irish passport? Indeed, why travel at all to an effective war zone for a "family holiday" and why, as an Irish citizen, would someone feel the need to place themselves at the centre of a protest in another country.....indeed, are there any other examples of Irish passport holders travelling on their second passports, protesting then pulling out their Irish passport when arrested?

We've an honourable tradition of going abroad to help others, but usually as Irish citizens......we don't regard it as a lesser class of citizenship behind any other.......

......travelling as an Irish citizen has been plenty good for lots of activists - I suppose it's only of base value if you are trying to curry favour with a non-Irish community......

tomwaterford · 23-09-2017 10:39pm

Jawgap wrote: »

Another question for him to answer indeed.......

......but why not travel on the Irish passport? Indeed, why travel at all to an effective war zone for a "family holiday" and why, as an Irish citizen, would someone feel the need to place themselves at the centre of a protest in another country.....indeed, are there any other examples of Irish passport holders travelling on their second passports, protesting then pulling out their Irish passport when arrested?

We've an honourable tradition of going abroad to help others, but usually as Irish citizens......we don't regard it as a lesser class of citizenship behind any other.......

......travelling as an Irish citizen has been plenty good for lots of activists - I suppose it's only of base value if you are trying to curry favour with a non-Irish community......

I do recall a begley lad (think was him??) Getting an Irish passport scrambled in an effort to save his life when he was kidnapped in Iraq a few years back

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenneth_Bigley

Is there in effect any difference when you face a death penalty from Islamic insurgents vs death penalty from a government??

Jawgap · 23-09-2017 10:45pm

tomwaterford wrote: »

I do recall a begley lad (think was him??) Getting an Irish passport scrambled in an effort to save his life when he was kidnapped in Iraq a few years back

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenneth_Bigley

Is there in effect any difference when you face a death penalty from Islamic insurgents vs death penalty from a government??

Ok, so when he travelled he didn't have dual citizenship, let alone 2 passports to choose from? He also travelled to Iraq for work and not a family holiday? And he didn't engage in any political protests in the country?

Aside from the above, yeah, it would be a valid comparison :rolleyes:

bajer101 · 23-09-2017 10:53pm

This party political broadcast has been brought to you on behalf of the Muslim Brotherhood.

Hussein Halawa: ‘Four years, one month and five days I haven’t seen my son’ (via @IrishTimes) https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/hussein-halawa-four-years-one-month-and-five-days-i-haven-t-seen-my-son-1.3230658

tomwaterford · 23-09-2017 10:54pm

Jawgap wrote: »

Ok, so when he travelled he didn't have dual citizenship, let alone 2 passports to choose from? He also travelled to Iraq for work and not a family holiday? And he didn't engage in any political protests in the country?

Aside from the above, yeah, it would be a valid comparison :rolleyes:

So he was wrong to try use an Irish passport to try and save his life?

This was the comparison yous asked for,why move goalposts now?

As for what he got upto in Iraq, we can only do as most here are about this lad (who was found innocent) and speculate

bajer101 · 23-09-2017 11:07pm

Imam Al-Qadri of the Blanchardstown Mosque has really let loose on Twitter tonight about the Clonskeagh/Halawa links to the Muslim Brotherhood and beyond. This will be big news.

https://twitter.com/DrUmarAlQadri/status/911667724383907840

Jawgap · 23-09-2017 11:08pm

tomwaterford wrote: »

So he was wrong to try use an Irish passport to try and save his life?

This was the comparison yous asked for,why move goalposts now?

As for what he got upto in Iraq, we can only do as most here are about this lad (who was found innocent) and speculate

Actually I asked for......

Jawgap wrote: »

.....other examples of Irish passport holders travelling on their second passports, protesting then pulling out their Irish passport when arrested?
......

You used Bigley as an example.......who was murdered, according to the link you provided, by ".....the Tawhid and Jihad ("Oneness of God and Jihad")"......an outfit, it seems, that was mentored by the very MB, Halawa was protesting in favour of.....

....the Amman MAK office recruited one of the world's most brutal terrorists of modern time, Abu Musab Zarqawi. Mentored by Jordanian former MB leader Abu Muhammad Maqdisi, in 1999, Zarqawi founded Jama'at al-Tawhid wa-l-Jihad (Organization of Monotheism and Jihad), which six years later, evolved into al-Qaeda in Iraq (AQI) after Zarqawi pledged allegiance to bin Laden in late 2004.

Anyway, that's an aside.....no, he wasn't wrong to use his passport.....I never said he was. I simply pointed out that he had travelled as an Egyptian citizen on what was supposed to be a family holiday (to a disintegrating country), got into bother, got (through the good offices of the Irish ambassador) safe passage, didn't take it......and somehow he bears no responsibility for his predicament?

I don't know too many people who take family holidays in those circumstances.

First Up · 23-09-2017 11:08pm

I suspect he used his Egyptian passport for no more sinister a reason than avoiding having to apply for a visa on his Irish one.

But Jawgap hasn't found anything better to criticise him about so leave him at it.

The_Kew_Tour · 23-09-2017 11:16pm

bajer101 wrote: »

Imam Al-Qadri of the Blanchardstown Mosque has really let loose on Twitter tonight about the Clonskeagh/Halawa links to the Muslim Brotherhood and beyond. This will be big news.

https://twitter.com/DrUmarAlQadri/status/911667724383907840

Wonder what people are going to call him? racist?

This is a very good man. Comes across as a gentleman, but will he get same uproar from Right wing supporters who support MB and see nothing wrong with them

bajer101 · 23-09-2017 11:16pm

First Up wrote: »

I suspect he used his Egyptian passport for no more sinister a reason than avoiding having to apply for a visa on his Irish one.

But Jawgap hasn't found anything better to criticise him about so leave him at it.

He actually used his Irish passport to enter Egypt and paid the visa tax.

Jawgap · 23-09-2017 11:20pm

First Up wrote: »

I suspect he used his Egyptian passport for no more sinister a reason than avoiding having to apply for a visa on his Irish one.

But Jawgap hasn't found anything better to criticise him about so leave him at it.

Seems, though, I'm not the only one a bit suspicious of the whole story about a family holiday.......

https://twitter.com/drumaralqadri/status/911667724383907840

https://twitter.com/drumaralqadri/status/911665462630641664

https://twitter.com/drumaralqadri/status/909863598708707328

.....but sure, what would he know.......

The_Kew_Tour · 23-09-2017 11:25pm

Jawgap wrote: »

Seems, though, I'm not the only one a bit suspicious of the whole story about a family holiday.......

https://twitter.com/drumaralqadri/status/911667724383907840

https://twitter.com/drumaralqadri/status/911665462630641664

https://twitter.com/drumaralqadri/status/909863598708707328

.....but sure, what would he know.......

Plus he now a racist.

Jawgap · 23-09-2017 11:26pm

bajer101 wrote: »

He actually used his Irish passport to enter Egypt and paid the visa tax.

Post up the evidence of that and I'll happily retract and apologise......my reading of the account was he'd travelled on his Egyptian passport.

tomwaterford · 23-09-2017 11:34pm

Jawgap wrote: »

Post up the evidence of that and I'll happily retract and apologise......my reading of the account was he'd travelled on his Egyptian passport.

https://avondhupress.ie/perhaps-irish-eyes-ibrahim-halawas-crime-hes-bit-muslim-bit-brown/

Best I could find was that,saying as an Irish citizen he needed to pay to enter?

-I'd be wary to take that as proof mind

Ash.J.Williams · 23-09-2017 11:43pm

Jawgap wrote: »

Seems, though, I'm not the only one a bit suspicious of the whole story about a family holiday.......

https://twitter.com/drumaralqadri/status/911667724383907840

https://twitter.com/drumaralqadri/status/911665462630641664

https://twitter.com/drumaralqadri/status/909863598708707328

.....but sure, what would he know.......

well there's a shot fired, fair play to him.

Jawgap · 23-09-2017 11:47pm

tomwaterford wrote: »

https://avondhupress.ie/perhaps-irish-eyes-ibrahim-halawas-crime-hes-bit-muslim-bit-brown/

Best I could find was that,saying as an Irish citizen he needed to pay to enter?

-I'd be wary to take that as proof mind

Anything better than.......

The Avondhu. Local news, sports and events from North East Cork, West Waterford, South Limerick and South Tipperary.

There's plenty of scans of his passport online, surely someone saw fit to scan the page with the visa stamp?

punisher5112 · 23-09-2017 11:53pm

So was the jet sent to get him yet??

deco nate · 24-09-2017 12:44am

Jawgap wrote: »

Seems, though, I'm not the only one a bit suspicious of the whole story about a family holiday.......

https://twitter.com/drumaralqadri/status/911667724383907840

https://twitter.com/drumaralqadri/status/911665462630641664

https://twitter.com/drumaralqadri/status/909863598708707328

.....but sure, what would he know.......

Didn't you hear, he is a well known racist, hater of Islam...
Well know he's being paid to post by Israel....

bajer101 · 24-09-2017 1:14am

If you're not following Imam Al-Qadri on Twitter, you really should be.

https://twitter.com/DrUmarAlQadri/status/911667724383907840

prinzeugen · 24-09-2017 1:17am

bajer101 wrote: »

If you're not following Imam Al-Qadri on Twitter, you really should be.

https://twitter.com/DrUmarAlQadri/status/911667724383907840

Linky no worky!

bajer101 · 24-09-2017 1:20am

Looks like he is deleting some tweets

https://twitter.com/DrUmarAlQadri/status/911723160004939776

prinzeugen · 24-09-2017 1:23am

Jawgap wrote: »

Seems, though, I'm not the only one a bit suspicious of the whole story about a family holiday.......

https://twitter.com/drumaralqadri/status/911667724383907840

https://twitter.com/drumaralqadri/status/911665462630641664

https://twitter.com/drumaralqadri/status/909863598708707328

.....but sure, what would he know.......

So basically he is saying do what you did "on holiday" here??

No wonder its been deleted. Pro Isis post.

K.Flyer · 24-09-2017 2:44am

prinzeugen wrote: »

So basically he is saying do what you did "on holiday" here??

No wonder its been deleted. Pro Isis post.

I don't think he meant it that way.
He was the Imam that organised a protest in Dublin condemning ISIS and its ideologies.
IIRC, the protest received very little public support from Clonskeagh.

Edit:

Some very interesting posts from him...

https://mobile.twitter.com/DrUmarAlQadri

Dr. Umar Al Qadri wrote:

Also why remain silent for four years and let daughters campaign for him, why deny MB link, why deny link of ECFR with MB

Ibrahim Halawa acquited(mod warning in op-Heed it)

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