Ryanair Strike implications re Cancellations NO INDUSTRIAL RELATIONS POSTS

Bob24

LiamaDelta wrote: »

I also can't understand why cabin-crew haven't organised themselves in support also. It would seem that their conditions would merit an overhaul almost as much as the pilots.

I assume they would like to but it’s harder for them because they have much less leverage than pilots (pilots and especially captains know they are a rare commodity at the moment so even a ruthless management style such as Ryanair’s is unlikely lead to bad retaliations from the company for striking, whereas cabin crew is fairly easily replaced and much more exposed to retaliations ...).

ahbell

Applied for compensation under EU261 for a cancelled Ryanair flight on 16th September. They agreed to pay out on the 28th September. I still haven't received a penny from them despite chasing at least twice a week and the Commission for Aviation Regulation intervening on my behalf. My experience is that they are beyond useless and only look at their customers with contempt.

Mebuntu

Irish Steve wrote: »

and if any of the other (Irish) unions decide to take sympathy action, or provide pickets, there's no telling what may remain operational, and having seen how these things can be manipulated at Dublin, I would be worried about the impact on the travel plans of people in the run up to Christmas,

The last time that unions tried to interfere with Ryanair (a few baggage handlers 1998?) it resulted in:

Pickets (at the airport entrances) not being passed by other union members.

Delivery vehicles, taxis and buses et al not running up to the terminal.

Ryanair planes that the management became the baggage handlers for being prevented from pushback by Aer Lingus staff while the airport police stood by and watched.

The coup-de-grace came when the unions closed the airport by calling out the police/security and the Firefighters and they meekly complied. This became an embarrassing world-wide joke when the World became aware that the security and police at Dublin International Airport, Ireland came out in support of a few striking baggage handlers from one airline.

According to a snippet I heard on the radio yesterday evening, when asked, the strikers hadn't yet decided where the pickets would be placed.

Ingrid Miley of RTE claims that Ryanair will most likely go to court to seek an injunction against the union for messing with its ops. They did this before and won in the High Court but I can't recall if that was appealed and, if so, what the outcome was.

devnull

Mebuntu wrote: »

Ingrid Miley of RTE claims that Ryanair will most likely go to court to seek an injunction against the union for messing with its ops. They did this before and won in the High Court but I can't recall if that was appealed and what the outcome was.

These days the unions are well aware of that tactic that employers will use to try and break the strike through the courts making it unlawful and won't just give up if Ryanair do that.

The 'blue flu' is the usual response by unions to that situation since they can't sack everyone.

billy few mates

Makes my ongoing quest of chasing up missing Aer Lingus frequent flyer points seem like a First World problem compared to trying to deal with all that s***e....

Stevek101

Looks like Portugal, Germany and Italy will be out with Dublin on Wednesday. Surprised they managed to muster up some organisation. Unfortunately for passengers Friday will not be the real acid test. If Wednesday goes ahead it'll be hard to avoid cancellations at multiple base.

Bob24

Stevek101 wrote: »

Looks like Portugal, Germany and Italy will be out with Dublin on Wednesday. Surprised they managed to muster up some organisation. Unfortunately for passengers Friday will not be the real acid test. If Wednesday goes ahead it'll be hard to avoid cancellations at multiple base.

Also, there’s obviously some coordination between bases. If they manage to make it happen, just that is an issue for Ryanair as whether they recognise it or not a cross-country pilots organisation would weaken their divide and conquer strategy.

But as you said, that’s a *if* and we shall wait and see.

Muahahaha

Irish Steve wrote: »

I would like to hope that behind all the visible PR bluster and negativity, (which is unfortunately the stock in trade of MOL) there are some people within Ryanair's management who are seeing which way the wind is blowing on these issues, and are seeking to engage with the relevant pilots in a competent and constructive manner, with a view to finding an acceptable way to move things forward that will keep the people affected happy, and not cause any further damage to to long term future of the airline.

That is the biggest question here. Has MOL surrounded himself with yes men who will shout No surrender to Unions ad infinitum? Or are there people on the board who see which way the wind is blowing and will speak up? Will anyone dare tell OLeary maybe his modus operandi has contributed to creating this situation and now a change of tack is needed?

Personally I think the Ryanair board is likely to be stuffed full of directors who are a chip off the OLeary block. Im only speculating here but my gut feeling is that the board of directors are infected both by groupthink by the cult of OLeary. That could turn out to be their downfall.

Its interesting times, the next few weeks should show us which way things will swing.

Ardennes1944

Flying Basel to Dublin on the 22nd...fingers bloody crossed

Loueln

Got compensation under EU 261 within a week of complaining to the aviation regulator

Bob24

Italian officials are starting to make noise about Ryanair’s threats to Italian pilots who are planning to strike, including one saying: “The declaration of the Ryanair authorities appears not to comply with the principles of our law”.

http://www.italianinsider.it/?q=node/6211

Ryanair can of course refuse to talk to unions, but they’ll have to stop threatening employees who are striking presto or they could find themselves on the wrong side of the law as well as becoming a political football in a number of countries.

Turbulent Bill

Who ultimately decides if "exceptional circumstances" apply for a cancellation, and hence no compensation applies?

I recently had a flight cancelled at the gate in Germany, no reason given and totally inadequate customer support. There were delays at the airport due to snow, but multiple flights did depart throughout the day (including from the airline I was using). My thinking is that the flight was cancelled to help their backlog, but that they might hide behind bad weather as an excuse.

bd2012

Supposed to fly home to Ireland (Dub) from Faro 22nd. What are my chances?

Bob24

bd2012 wrote: »

Supposed to fly home to Ireland (Dub) from Faro 22nd. What are my chances?

I doubt the strike will be extended to additional days before Christmas besides what I already scheduled (20th). Pilots will fire their warning shot on the 20th and see what happens before considering whether they want to schedule another date (plus while it would have a huge media/financial impact, striking on the Friday before Christmas would be a huge PR risk for them).

JCX BXC

In a move I never thought I'd see, Ryanair agree to recognise unions!

https://corporate.ryanair.com/news/ryanair-agrees-to-recognise-pilot-unions-to-avoid-widespread-customer-disruptions-over-christmas-period/

gifted

JCX BXC wrote: »

In a move I never thought I'd see, Ryanair agree to recognise unions!

https://corporate.ryanair.com/news/ryanair-agrees-to-recognise-pilot-unions-to-avoid-widespread-customer-disruptions-over-christmas-period/

And that's the end of cheap flights....

CoisFharraige

Just saw....I am so shocked. I never thought this could happen. Wow, what a milestone. Now the interesting bits - no doubt some 'Ts&Cs' apply

Bob24

Reading this carefully though:

“representative body for pilots in Ryanair in each of these countries, as long as they establish Committees of Ryanair pilots to deal with Ryanair issues, as Ryanair will not engage with pilots who fly for competitor airlines in Ireland or elsewhere”

So in the sentence recognising unions they are both refusing the pilots’ request to have a company wide representative body (they say “in each of these countries” ), and while I am not sure I get it the second part of the sentence I quoted might also be telling pilots who have already joinined unions that they have to leave them and create a new one specific to Ryanair.

We’ll have to wait and see how it unfolds as pilots will probably be cautious (if I was one of them I think I would wonder if behind the “we will recognise unions” message the strategy was not simply to change the wording and rename existing ERCs unions so than nothing else changes).

Bazzy

Hell just froze over

Didn't see that one coming.

People who have flights booked can relax

plodder

Apparently, with the caveat that they won't deal with pilot reps from rival airlines. A committee of Ryanair pilots in each country to be set up. Better to get in early and establish an acceptable framework, rather than having to capitulate after a damaging strike. Smart move imo and a sign of the company maturing I think.

L1011

So much for sacking the pilots and refusing to acknowledge unions!

Masala

It's all about Share Price!!!!! It must be protected at all cost and there are people bigger than MOL up the food chain pulling those strings and MOL has to toe the line from above to protect same.....

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Mebuntu

Shock news, indeed, but then you can always expect the unexpected with FR.

It sounds like a good compromise. Deal with unions but separately on Ryanair affairs only.

It has now been put up to the unions and we await to see if they change their true colours. Will IALPA agree to Cullen and Co. being sidelined on FR matters?

Hoboo

Recognising unions is one thing, terms and parameters for negotiation are a completely different ball game. Great news for whatever union gets the role €€€€€€€€

View Profile

Bazzy wrote:

People who have flights booked can relax

I wouldn't speak too soon.

Pilots are very cautious of Ryanairs change of tune. Only a day ago they said they'd meet any industrial action "head on".
A leopard doesn't change it's spots!

Irish Steve

I'm pleased to see that there is a change of attitude being shown, though as I commented earlier, I suspect that's down to high level contacts that we'll never hear about at Government level having been made to give the relevant management advance warning that "self employed" pilots are not going to be able to retain that status for much longer when legislative change comes out, which will be a massive game changer for Ryanair, as they will have to factor in things like Holiday pay, and probably a lot of other things that are part of a normal employment contract.

I can fully understand not wanting other airline people involved in the process, given the track record of most of the unions in Ireland, there is and will remain a historic total lack of trust of the union system, which I have a great deal of sympathy for, given the abuse of both employers and employees that I have personally experienced and witnessed at the airport.

Having said that, yes, this is a significant change, and to be welcomed in as much as it seems to be the start of a recognition that change is needed, and has to be dealt with.

And yes, it also hopefully removes the strike threat situation, which has to be good for the stress levels of a lot of intending passengers.

devnull

Now we will see what these unions game is and if they are interested in helping the staff as they claim or it is more about also helping their members in other airlines.

MOL by offering what he has is essentially saying he will deal with unions but only on the basis it is Ryanair employees and not outside staff.

Mebuntu

View Profile wrote: »

A leopard doesn't change it's spots!

Not quite true. This particular leopard has lots of different spots nowadays compared to days of yore:).

Bazzy

View Profile wrote: »

I wouldn't speak too soon.

Pilots are very cautious of Ryanairs change of tune. Only a day ago they said they'd meet any industrial action "head on".
A leopard doesn't change it's spots!

The pilots want engagement with a union which is what they are getting.

If they dont call the strike off it'll turn the public against them very quickly