Ryanair Strike implications re Cancellations NO INDUSTRIAL RELATIONS POSTS

NH2013

weisses wrote: »

You don't know what pilots think of this offer in writing by Ryanair and if they find it suspicious yes or no ....

Well, while I'm not a Ryanair pilot, and have no experience of dealing with them or Ryanair, but I would certainly find it very convenient/suspicious that despite the Union offering to meet them at any time that suits them over the coming days they've simply stated they cannot as they're busy, even when the Union negociators have made themselves available on weekend days to meet.

What previous commitments could possibly have all the Ryanair executives time taken up with over the weekend that couldn't be rearranged, or at least offered as an explanation? So far all we've heard is that they're too busy to meet, and not saying, at least not publicly anyways, what has them this busy that they can't even hold a simple meeting that would prevent a strike, so I'd certainly be skeptical.

Blut2

The idea that Ryanair executives couldn't find any time to meet union representatives in an entire 7 day period, but will miraculously become free on the day of the strike, is very obviously a delaying tactic. This is a huge deal, and would merit executives dropping pretty much anything else to deal with it within 24/48 hours.

From Ryanair's POV if they can delay any strikes until January it will benefit them massively. Its a far less busy time of the year, and there will be far fewer sob stories in the press about people's Christmases being ruined because of Ryanair. So this is obviously what they're aiming to do by delaying matters as much as possible.

weisses

NH2013 wrote: »

Well, while I'm not a Ryanair pilot, and have no experience of dealing with them or Ryanair, but I would certainly find it very convenient/suspicious that despite the Union offering to meet them at any time that suits them over the coming days they've simply stated they cannot as they're busy, even when the Union negociators have made themselves available on weekend days to meet.

There is a solid written offer on the table from Ryanair ... Next stage would be a meeting where this can be discussed ... Unions are insisting this needs to be done by Wednesday or else ... Luckily the unions in Italy and the UK have more common sense and accepted the offer as an invitation for further talks without having . Like I said it works both ways

NH2013 wrote: »

What previous commitments could possibly have all the Ryanair executives time taken up with over the weekend that couldn't be rearranged, or at least offered as an explanation? So far all we've heard is that they're too busy to meet, and not saying, at least not publicly anyways, what has them this busy that they can't even hold a simple meeting that would prevent a strike, so I'd certainly be skeptical.

Ryanair made the first step to resolve this ... Now its time to sit down at a time convenient to both and work this out .... There is plenty of time an opportunity for pilots to strike ...

weisses

Blut2 wrote: »

The idea that Ryanair executives couldn't find any time to meet union representatives in an entire 7 day period, but will miraculously become free on the day of the strike, is very obviously a delaying tactic. This is a huge deal, and would merit executives dropping pretty much anything else to deal with it within 24/48 hours.

From Ryanair's POV if they can delay any strikes until January it will benefit them massively. Its a far less busy time of the year, and there will be far fewer sob stories in the press about people's Christmases being ruined because of Ryanair. So this is obviously what they're aiming to do by delaying matters as much as possible.

If Ryanair's attempt is to screw over their pilots and the union may I remind you that there are still 4 flying days till Christmas after Wednesday plus the time between Christmas and New year .... plus the fact this would not go down well with Ryanair pilots on other European airports

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

NH2013

weisses wrote: »

If Ryanair's attempt is to screw over their pilots and the union may I remind you that there are still 4 flying days till Christmas after Wednesday plus the time between Christmas and New year .... plus the fact this would not go down well with Ryanair pilots on other European airports

But legally a strike requires 14 days notice, so if the strike was called off and those talks on Wednesday go south, the Union legally couldn't strike until the 3rd/4th of January, and Ryanair know this, which is why they picked Wednesday for the meeting, as by the time Ryanair told the Unions to "F**k off" on Wednesday the unions would be powerless to take any action until after the Christmas rush.

weisses

NH2013 wrote: »

But legally a strike requires 14 days notice, so if the strike was called off and those talks on Wednesday go south, the Union legally couldn't strike until the 3rd/4th of January, and Ryanair know this, which is why they picked Wednesday for the meeting, as by the time Ryanair told the Unions to "F**k off" on Wednesday the unions would be powerless to take any action until after the Christmas rush.

I suggest you read up on what is legally required re notice to strike

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

trellheim

Assuming the strike goes ahead
If they strike, where can they picket ?

If they picket the roundabout into DUB it will be fun. I remember the last time that happened, it was utter chaos

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weisses wrote:

There is a solid written offer on the table from Ryanair ...

Nothing has been promised by O'Leary so time will tell how solid this offer actually is.
Ryanair's track record in negotiations would leave a sensible person dubious of their true intentions.
To argue the contrary is foolish or naive.

weisses wrote:

Ryanair made the first step to resolve this ... Now its time to sit down at a time convenient to both and work this out .... There is plenty of time an opportunity for pilots to strike ...

Issues will only begin to be resolved once management make a real commitment in writing that the Ryanair pilot body EERC agree to.
The EERC are committed to meeting management along with IMPACT advisors (no not Aer Lingus competitor blah blah) at anytime up to the 20th to sort this issue.

Ball is in O'Leary's court!
If he is genuine with his offer, I see no reason he can't drag himself away from his busy weekend plans to meet with his pilots. That's if he really is concerned about his passengers well being?!

Jamie2k9

Ryanair has offered to meet with the IMPACT trade union ahead of planned strike action next week by some Ryanair pilots.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2017/1216/927837-ryanair-impact/

Bob24

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Ryanair has offered to meet with the IMPACT trade union ahead of planned strike action next week by some Ryanair pilots.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2017/1216/927837-ryanair-impact/

As expected, they know they need to meet but their strategy is to leave as little time as possible between the meeting and the strike start time so that discussions don’t last for a few days with a strike looming.

I don’t know what unions will do, but I think the best strategy on their end is to accept meeting on Tuesday but make it clear the strike is not called-off until they know whether the outcome of the meeting is satisfactory.

trellheim

When most of the pilots and cabin crew are not full time employees, then theres a problem there as the minority employees will have different interests from the contractors.

Mebuntu

It's all about one-upmanship.

The unions held all the aces and called a strike stipulating certain conditions.

Overnight Ryanair played the Joker and caught the unions completely on the hop.

As is the wont of the transport unions (who can never be trusted) they snuck a hidden card from up their sleeve and introduced a new "requirement" - a meeting "before Wednesday" which wasn't part of the original conditions.

Ryanair said OK for meeting but on Wed. Please think about our customers.

Still holding the aces the union said no and the strike goes on. Screw the customers. Your play.

Ryanair play the next best card in their hand. How about Tuesday then? - Tuesday being "before Wednesday" every week. Oh, and by the way, the others have cancelled their strike.

I'd love to have a peek at the other so-far-unseen cards, if any, that are left in both hands.

Noxegon

I do wonder whether the next press release will be something like this:

"Ryanair has decided to withdraw its offer to recognise unions. It has become apparent to us over the last few days that the unions move the goalposts every time we meet the proposed requirements, and to that end we have nothing to gain from this process."

I wonder if I can put a few euro on that...

Bob24

Noxegon wrote: »

I do wonder whether the next press release will be something like this:

"Ryanair has decided to withdraw its offer to recognise unions. It has become apparent to us over the last few days that the unions move the goalposts every time we meet the proposed requirements, and to that end we have nothing to gain from this process."

I wonder if I can put a few euro on that...

Extremely unlikely. If they do that pilots will be even more unhappy which would trigger major and synchronised strikes in multiple countries that could span over several days. Ryanair knows that very well, so they will talk to the unions.

They have put themselves in a corner by ignoring pilots frustrations until things got out of hand. The consequence is that they find themselves in a situation whereby their disgruntled staff has became both motivated and organised to have a fight. Of course not having that fight would be better for everyone, but since it is the first time in years of expressing those frustrations that they feel they have a strong hand, pilots won't back-down. Hence Ryanair will probably have to do something they are not used to and enter negotiations without holding most of the cards (and understandably right now they are trying to gather as many cards as they can while taking some away from the pilots/unions' hand, but they have to be careful as they push their luck too much wit that strategy they could completely lose control).

duskyjoe

The spat between modulators has tickled me more than the reality of what’s going on :}

L1011

duskyjoe wrote: »

The spat between modulators has tickled me more than the reality of what’s going on :}

Can you detail this spat?

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Mebuntu wrote:

As is the wont of the transport unions (who can never be trusted) they snuck a hidden card from up their sleeve and introduced a new "requirement" - a meeting "before Wednesday" which wasn't part of the original conditions.

No. If anyone can't be trusted it's Ryanair. As history has shown, several times. Irish Judges have acknowledged this in Irish courts. Ryanair are noted liars.

Don't fret, Ryanair pilots are well accustomed to Ryanair's tactics after years of litigation and underhand tactics.
They will no longer let themselves be abused by management and misled by false truths.

The time has come for management to deal with this situation like adults, not teenagers.
Run the company like a major corporation not a piddly regional.
Grow up Michael!

Locker10a

View Profile wrote: »

Mebuntu wrote:

As is the wont of the transport unions (who can never be trusted) they snuck a hidden card from up their sleeve and introduced a new "requirement" - a meeting "before Wednesday" which wasn't part of the original conditions.

No. If anyone can't be trusted it's Ryanair. As history has shown, several times. Irish Judges have acknowledged this in Irish courts. Ryanair are noted liars.

Don't fret, Ryanair pilots are well accustomed to Ryanair's tactics after years of litigation and underhand tactics.
They will no longer let themselves be abused by management and misled by false truths.

The time has come for management to deal with this situation like adults, not teenagers.
Run the company like a major corporation not a piddly regional.
Grow up Michael!

Hear, hear !

Wanderer78

View Profile wrote:

Run the company like a major corporation not a piddly regional. Grow up Michael!

I believe they have been doing this, for many years, I.e. maximising profits at no matter costs, including treating their staff badly. Fairly normal practice, very interesting to watch this unfold though

Bob24

Wanderer78 wrote: »

I believe they have been doing this, for many years, I.e. maximising profits at no matter costs, including treating their staff badly. Fairly normal practice, very interesting to watch this unfold though

Yes and no. What you are saying is correct, but over time it led to a situation whereby employees grew extremely unhappy and had no trust in their management.

This was fine (from the company’s perspective) as long as employees were not willing or capable of causing trouble. But right now the consequences of the company’s management are indeed threatening the business. This is because they didn’t expect their staff would ever be in a position whereby they can actually pressure their management which therefore never planned for it (for now this strategy of largely ignoring staff concerns to focus 100% on cost savings is still working with cabin crew who are no less frustrated than pilots but are much easier to replace and thus have almost no leverage - what Ryanair failed to see is that pilots are not as easy to replace as cabin crew and could one day be in short supply).

Letting that risk build up over the years could be seen as bad management and lack of foresight. And not acknowledging that a massive issue was materialising over the past few months and not taking it more seriously to handle it before unions/strikes became a thing at Ryanair was definitely a management mistake.

devnull

Strike has been suspended due to the principled determination of Ryanair pilots.
http://www.impact.ie/statement-ryanair/

IMPACT has this evening (Sunday 17th December) suspended a planned one day strike of Ryanair pilots next Wednesday (20th December) after company management agreed to recognise the union as the representative of Irish-based pilots.

The union has agreed to meet management on Tuesday evening, but says it is available to meet sooner.

The union asked management to release its Ryanair pilot representatives to prepare for and attend the meeting.

The union acknowledged the principled determination of Ryanair pilots, which it said had made this breakthrough possible, and said it looked forward to establishing a positive relationship with Ryanair company management.

IMPACT added that it hoped the suspension of industrial action would remove any uncertainty for passengers intending to travel on Wednesday.

Wanderer78

devnull wrote: »

Strike has been suspended due to the principled determination of Ryanair pilots.

fair play to them, gutsy move, it could have gone badly wrong for them

Mebuntu

fair play to them, gutsy move, it could have gone badly wrong for them

Gutsy? No, I don't think so. Someone at the top obviously phoned home and told them that was their best card to play at this particular juncture in the proceedings.

Ardennes1944

Suspended until...Thursday...Friday...after Christmas??

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Suspended until the pilots feel confident that Ryanair's offer is genuine.
A weeks notice is required for industrial action in Ireland though. So if Tuesday's meeting is unsuccessful then the earliest strike day would be December 26th!

LeChienMefiant

Does 'suspension' have any legal basis? Is the original notice valid?

Bob24

Not sure where they stand from a legal perspective, but given that the union said they were hoping to “remove uncertainty for passengers intending to travel on Wednesday”, it would seem a bit strange to reinstate the strike on that day.

Having said that ... this is just the Irish union and there are other ones involved.

Blut2

This is very on-point:

"Fears Grow O’Leary May Be Planning ‘Red Wedding’ Style Event" - http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2017/12/18/fears-grow-oleary-may-be-planning-red-wedding-style-event-2/