Isn't multiculturalism great...

OnDraught

biko wrote: »

Can you explain please why support for the immigration-restrictive Sweden Democrats have risen from only a few percent to now being the second largest party in Sweden?

Yes, the 2nd biggest party was the Moderates. They then decided to side with the Sweden Democrats regarding anti immigration. They then lost all their support to the main party the Social Democrats, who are now stronger than ever. This left the Sweden Democrats as the de facto second biggest party but they are still nowhere near power after losing ground to the Social Democrats.

Like the rest of Europe and America there has been a rise in the right in Sweden and the boot boys and nazis have always been here unlike in Ireland. They are still largely not a threat to anyone because they mainly exist online where they can be big boys in the safety of their own homes.

The right love the story of the festival story but the fact is that only 2 of the 7 suspects are believed to be of immigrant decent.

dav3

Day 5...100 thanks later.

I'm still struggling to come to terms with the OP having a nice day with foreigners without them trying to kill him, not even once, and one of them was a muslim ffs!

At least there's a picture of the OP at his pinko commie gathering.



Hurr durr Benetton

Hector Savage

Hector Savage wrote: »

Absolutely, this taking offense on behalf of others, ridiculous.

I don't see it as taking offense on behalf of Muslims. After all, Muslims have been reacting badly to criticism of their religion/culture forever.

I've been to Iran, and a number of "Islamic" countries.. and I knew not to make any criticisms of Islam.. It was obvious. Obvious, that it would be an incredibly stupid thing to do. Like expulsion if I'm lucky, and jail time with serious beatings if I'm unlucky. Unlucky being the common perception of what would happen.

However, I always thought that when I returned to Europe, I would be able to voice my concerns or criticisms. Sure, there's a common sense thing with European Freedom of Speech. It's not like the US where anything goes. Instead, there was a logical avoidance of hate speech. But Europe has gradually changed whereby almost an criticism of Islam is Racist or hate speech.

I genuinely have no issue with Islam or Sharia law in Islamic countries. Just as I had no issue with the Chinese government when I lived in their country. Or the tribalism and self-mutilation of a number of African nations I visited. That's their country, their culture and the way they want to live. If they want something different, change it.

But I do feel I have the right to criticise Islam in Europe. It's not being unreasonable to point out negative behaviour by Muslims in Europe. It's not wrong to object the the claim that "Islam is a religion of Peace" when I've seen brutal acts being done in the name of that religion. Just as I would object if Christianity was harping on about some wonderful aspect, while behaving differently.

But there is a rather strong movement both online and in the media to silence criticism of Islam or muslims in Europe. To throw it off as being racist, derogatory, insulting (without basis), etc. and there are rather large number of posters who are willing to encourage that silence to spread..

Grayson

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

It's nothing to do with the sun. It's to protect others from diseases they may be carrying.

No it isn't. They take them off when they're in shopping centres. They'll also have every bit of skin covered. They don't want to get a tan.

Now that's not true of everywhere, in Beijing it is necessary to prevent harm from air pollution but they're worn across the far east

Grayson

Deleted User wrote: »

They're more likely to have specially treated umbrellas if they're concerned about the sun and also have special hats that do the same job.

The masks are more than just for smog, but for any breathable substance. People here have forgotten or have never been exposed to what industrialisation/modernisation is like.. and in many asian countries there are no real enforced regulations on chemical spraying of crops. So, it is generally advisable to have such masks.

Except I've talked to loads of asians when i was there and it's for beauty reasons.
You'll see a girl in 40 degree heat, covered from head to toe, even wearing gloves and a hat and a mask.

Grayson

Grayson wrote: »

Except I've talked to loads of asians when i was there and it's for beauty reasons.
You'll see a girl in 40 degree heat, covered from head to toe, even wearing gloves and a hat and a mask.

Where in Asia were you? (that's pretty extreme bahaviour)

Foxhound38

Deleted User wrote: »

...today I brought my daughter to the playground to meet Slovakian friends with their kids. Also met my cousin and his African partner and their little daughter. After that, I went to my Turkish Muslim barber and to her delight he produced a lollipop.

And I thought, she'll grow up experiencing diversity and cultures that I could only dream of when I was a child in white Catholic Ireland in the late '70s and '80s. And it felt good.

It's a great way of putting it. Long may it continue

biko

OnDraught wrote: »

The right love the story of the festival story but the fact is that only 2 of the 7 suspects are believed to be of immigrant decent.

Please feel free to link to your sources. If they are in Swedish I suppose we'll just Google Translate them.

OnDraught

biko wrote: »

Please feel free to link to your sources. If they are in Swedish I suppose we'll just Google Translate them.

"The police later admitted that only two of the seven men or boys arrested for the Putte i Parken incidents were from HVB homes – residential homes for young people, often refugees without parents. There’s even less evidence to suggest the rapes at Bravalla were carried out by immigrants – but the two were instantly lumped together."

https://www.theguardian.com/music/musicblog/2016/jul/06/swedish-festival-rapes-migrants-wrong-dangerous

Just to add that it has been a problem in the U.K. and the US for years and it's something that needs to be addressed and not something used as a weapon by people with an agenda regarding immigration.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/womens-life/11822420/Bestival-UK-music-festivals-have-a-rape-problem-that-needs-action-now.html

OnDraught

OnDraught wrote: »

"The police later admitted that only two of the seven men or boys arrested for the Putte i Parken incidents were from HVB homes – residential homes for young people, often refugees without parents. There’s even less evidence to suggest the rapes at Bravalla were carried out by immigrants – but the two were instantly lumped together."

https://www.google.se/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/music/musicblog/2016/jul/06/swedish-festival-rapes-migrants-wrong-dangerous

Maybe I'm missing something.. but they're saying that they can't prove it either way.. that there are loads of descriptions available. It could be natives or foreigners... they just don't know. Whereas they initially assigned blame to foreigners within a few hours, they withdrew that statement.

Just to add that it has been a problem in the U.K. and the US for years and it's something that needs to be addressed and not something used as a weapon by people with an agenda regarding immigration.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/womens-life/11822420/Bestival-UK-music-festivals-have-a-rape-problem-that-needs-action-now.html

It's well known the inaccuracies in descriptions of assailants in many kinds of crime. I know, personally, after been beaten up by 7 teenagers in Cork, that I wasn't able to describe even one of them accurately.. Thankfully there were CCTV cameras nearby that captured the attack.

OnDraught

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Maybe I'm missing something.. but they're saying that they can't prove it either way.. that there are loads of descriptions available. It could be natives or foreigners... they just don't know. Whereas they initially assigned blame to foreigners within a few hours, they withdrew that statement.

Yes, exactly. But they think that 2 are brown and 5 are white essentially.

The cases are still ongoing anyway so hopefully there will be a conclusion particularly in relation to the rapes.

OnDraught

OnDraught wrote: »

Yes, exactly. But they think that 2 are brown and 5 are white essentially.

The cases are still ongoing anyway so hopefully there will be a conclusion particularly in relation to the rapes.

Where did it say the colour of the attackers? Missed that in the article.

And in the age of "multiculturalism" skin colour isn't a great indicator of nationality.. even in Sweden or Ireland.

OnDraught

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Where did it say the colour of the attackers? Missed that in the article.

And in the age of "multiculturalism" skin colour isn't a great indicator of nationality.. even in Sweden or Ireland.

It is what the police said originally and then had to retract it.

jmayo

Shenshen wrote: »

Well, yes, but you know that the moment you type the words multi-cultural, or Immigration, a sizeable (or possibly actually just a very small but loud, I'm not even that sure) number of posters will read "Islam" and "Sharia".

So even though only one person in the OP may possibly be a Muslim, this is what the discussion will center around.

Well let's analyse the great multicultural melting pot in Kerry as described to us by the OP.

Deleted User wrote: »

...today I brought my daughter to the playground to meet Slovakian friends with their kids. Also met my cousin and his African partner and their little daughter. After that, I went to my Turkish Muslim barber and to her delight he produced a lollipop.

And I thought, she'll grow up experiencing diversity and cultures that I could only dream of when I was a child in white Catholic Ireland in the late '70s and '80s. And it felt good.

But why was there a very pointed mention of the religion of one of the protagonists and nothing about the others bar their ethnicity.

Oh and here is something, that persons only interaction with the muslim protagonist was in a commerical business setting.
The OP went to his barber, I presume it was for a haircut and not a social visit.
He took his child to the playground to meet Slovakian friends with their kids.
He then met a cousin and his African partner.
There wasn't any interaction with this muslim protagonist down the park, down the local restaurant, in the local pub, at a childrens party, at a school function.
It was at a business.

Likewise we hear of wonderful muslim doctors, etc but how many people have mixed with them in non work environments ?

Also funny how he knows the religion of the barber and the sports the kids play, but has not much of an idea of his cousin's partner ?

The OP was trying to make a very implicit point about a muslim and then you and others get on their high fooking horses about us discussing muslims.
The OP introduced muslim immigration into this thread from the off.

And the biggest migration into Europe over the last few years has been of muslims.
And where muslims go sharia follows, like night follows day.
Of course you and others willfully ignore what research has actually found and that is that a huge chunk of European muslims actually want sharia.

I also hate the shyte that your side on this debate come out with and it is very evident here.
It is ok to have barbed comments about other religions, but perish the thought that someone says something bad about islam and muslims.

It is right on cool to slag the shyte out of catholics, but no, one cannot say anything derogatory about the religion of peace.

You can talk about multiculturalism, but lets not really talk about how it is now really masquerading the lack of integration of huge chunk of one particular group that has entered Europe over the last 60 odd years.

If you dont want to talk about muslims or migration... don't make a thread title called "Isn't multiculturalism great..". :rolleyes: The Op wanted dozens of pages.

Just call it "great day getting a haircut" or some other bland crap. And then the OP would have gotten 3 pages of remarks and the thread would have disappeared.

WinnyThePoo

jmayo wrote: »

Well let's analyse the great multicultural melting pot in Kerry as described to us by the OP.



But why was there a very pointed mention of the religion of one of the protagonists and nothing about the others bar their ethnicity.

Oh and here is something, that persons only interaction with the muslim protagonist was in a commerical business setting.
The OP went to his barber, I presume it was for a haircut and not a social visit.
He took his child to the playground to meet Slovakian friends with their kids.
He then met a cousin and his African partner.
There wasn't any interaction with this muslim protagonist down the park, down the local restaurant, in the local pub, at a childrens party, at a school function.
It was at a business.

Likewise we hear of wonderful muslim doctors, etc but how many people have mixed with them in non work environments ?

Also funny how he knows the religion of the barber and the sports the kids play, but has not much of an idea of his cousin's partner ?

The OP was trying to make a very implicit point about a muslim and then you and others get on their high fooking horses about us discussing muslims.
The OP introduced muslim immigration into this thread from the off.

And the biggest migration into Europe over the last few years has been of muslims.
And where muslims go sharia follows, like night follows day.
Of course you and others willfully ignore what research has actually found and that is that a huge chunk of European muslims actually want sharia.

I also hate the shyte that your side on this debate come out with and it is very evident here.
It is ok to have barbed comments about other religions, but perish the thought that someone says something bad about islam and muslims.

It is right on cool to slag the shyte out of catholics, but no, one cannot say anything derogatory about the religion of peace.

You can talk about multiculturalism, but lets not really talk about how it is now really masquerading the lack of integration of huge chunk of one particular group that has entered Europe over the last 60 odd years.

Anger Yay!

Grayson

jmayo wrote: »

Well let's analyse the great multicultural melting pot in Kerry as described to us by the OP.



But why was there a very pointed mention of the religion of one of the protagonists and nothing about the others bar their ethnicity.

Oh and here is something, that persons only interaction with the muslim protagonist was in a commerical business setting.
The OP went to his barber, I presume it was for a haircut and not a social visit.
He took his child to the playground to meet Slovakian friends with their kids.
He then met a cousin and his African partner.
There wasn't any interaction with this muslim protagonist down the park, down the local restaurant, in the local pub, at a childrens party, at a school function.
It was at a business.

Likewise we hear of wonderful muslim doctors, etc but how many people have mixed with them in non work environments ?

Also funny how he knows the religion of the barber and the sports the kids play, but has not much of an idea of his cousin's partner ?

The OP was trying to make a very implicit point about a muslim and then you and others get on their high fooking horses about us discussing muslims.
The OP introduced muslim immigration into this thread from the off.

And the biggest migration into Europe over the last few years has been of muslims.
And where muslims go sharia follows, like night follows day.
Of course you and others willfully ignore what research has actually found and that is that a huge chunk of European muslims actually want sharia.

I also hate the shyte that your side on this debate come out with and it is very evident here.
It is ok to have barbed comments about other religions, but perish the thought that someone says something bad about islam and muslims.

It is right on cool to slag the shyte out of catholics, but no, one cannot say anything derogatory about the religion of peace.

You can talk about multiculturalism, but lets not really talk about how it is now really masquerading the lack of integration of huge chunk of one particular group that has entered Europe over the last 60 odd years.

No-one has ever said that. In fact one thing that people mention time and time again is that it's fine to call out faults with islam but you have to do the same for christians. You also can't make blanket statements about muslims when similar blanket statements would be unacceptable about christians.

Hans Bricks

Benjamin Buttons wrote: »

Rather than travel backwards in time, you could instead read 'forward in time' from the beginning of the thread.
'Rat race' might be a bit strong, though I think you'll agree that there is at times something of a rush at the beginning of some threads to be first in with the most obvious joke or pun. You'll even have posters saying/admitting: 'You got there before me'' or such like.
Never mind, maybe a bit quicker out of the blocks next time eh!

I'd imagine the type of person who reads every single thread in it's entirety wouldn't have much semblance of an actual life.
Do I now have to read every single comment over 40 pages before giving an opinion or in this case simply posting a mild joke ?
Fortunately I'm not a puerile, pedantic, trivial gimp with no life, lingering on boards for five days to nitpick and whinge over someone unknowingly repeating the second instance of a joke.

Benjamin Buttons wrote: »

The 'sneering' started with the hoary old 'Benetton ad' dig.
A dig at the OP and the idea posited in the thread title.
So why was 'Hans' sneering?
You'll have to ask him, though I suspect that he doesn't believe multiculturalism to be a fabarooney idea and thought therefore that a reference to Benetton might be humourous and apposite in the circumstances.
But be assured, he started the sneering.

Benjamin, I honestly have no problem with multiculturalism believe it or not. If someone wants to post a cringe inducing, self congratulatory, rainbows and lollipop's OP description of foreign born people simply doing normal everyday things like this one, you should expect a piss take to ensue. It's called a sense of humor. Myself and a dozen others decided to take the piss instead. I couldn't care less if it incenses contrarians like you so much.

jmayo

jmayo wrote: »

Oh and here is something, that persons only interaction with the muslim protagonist was in a commerical business setting.
The OP went to his barber, I presume it was for a haircut and not a social visit.
He took his child to the playground to meet Slovakian friends with their kids.
He then met a cousin and his African partner.
There wasn't any interaction with this muslim protagonist down the park, down the local restaurant, in the local pub, at a childrens party, at a school function.
It was at a business.

Last Saturday.

I have met him in social settings plenty of times.

Just not last Saturday...

jmayo

Deleted User wrote: »

Last Saturday.

I have met him in social settings plenty of times.

Just not last Saturday...

Fair enough.
You have to admit that you purposefully added his religion, did you not.

BTW how much does he charge for a haircut ?

Ash.J.Williams

mfceiling wrote: »

Depends...

My daughters got to meet a lovely man who kicked his daughters pram out of the lift that we were standing in. His poor wife who had her hijab on was almost sent flying on her arse as she was attempting to get into the lift as well. He shouted some sort of obscenities at her and she stepped back immediately. There was plenty of room for us all in the lift so he had no reason to stop her from getting in.

I'm not pushed on my daughters being around people like that who have no respect for women.

Mind you there is a good mix of kids in my daughters school and every year they do an international week where they learn about other countries food, culture and traditions.

Graham Dwyer was Irish

wakka12

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

Graham Dwyer was Irish

and..?

Benjamin Buttons

Hans Bricks wrote: »

I'd imagine the type of person who reads every single thread in it's entirety wouldn't have much semblance of an actual life.
Do I now have to read every single comment over 40 pages before giving an opinion or in this case simply posting a mild joke ?
Fortunately I'm not a puerile, pedantic, trivial gimp with no life, lingering on boards for five days to nitpick and whinge over someone unknowingly repeating the second instance of a joke.




Benjamin, I honestly have no problem with multiculturalism believe it or not. If someone wants to post a cringe inducing, self congratulatory, rainbows and lollipop's OP description of foreign born people simply doing normal everyday things like this one, you should expect a piss take to ensue. It's called a sense of humor. Myself and a dozen others decided to take the piss instead. I couldn't care less if it incenses contrarians like you so much.

I'd imagine the type of person who reads every single thread in it's entirety wouldn't have much semblance of an actual life.

Agreed, that's why I suggested reading the one that you're about to contribute to, particularly the first couple of pages where you'll normally find most of the jokes and puns.
That shouldn't be too taxing, plus you'll have the bonus of not 'doubling up' on someone else's witty one-liner.

Fortunately I'm not a puerile, pedantic, trivial gimp with no life, lingering on boards for five days to nitpick and whinge over someone unknowingly repeating the second instance of a joke.

That's good news, though be cautious with self-analysis as it can be notoriously unreliable and might not tally with the views of those who know you best.
But for now I'm genuinely pleased for you.

Benjamin, I honestly have no problem with multiculturalism believe it or not. If someone wants to post a cringe inducing, self congratulatory, rainbows and lollipop's OP description of foreign born people simply doing normal everyday things like this one, you should expect a piss take to ensue. It's called a sense of humor. Myself and a dozen others decided to take the piss instead. I couldn't care less if it incenses contrarians like you so much.

Hans, It doesn't incense me at all, on the contrary it amuses, or rather the reaction to it amuses me and that's the reason I contributed to the thread in the first place, I found the opening post amusing too in its own sweet way. In fact I posted earlier on that I thought the OP was fishing for overreactions and boy did he get them.
Btw, you probably mean it as an insult but I don't take being called a contrarian that way at all. So thanks, and the best of luck to you!

Galwayguy35

Deleted User wrote: »

...today I brought my daughter to the playground to meet Slovakian friends with their kids. Also met my cousin and his African partner and their little daughter. After that, I went to my Turkish Muslim barber and to her delight he produced a lollipop.

And I thought, she'll grow up experiencing diversity and cultures that I could only dream of when I was a child in white Catholic Ireland in the late '70s and '80s. And it felt good.

Yeah but she will never experience the nice fine summers we had growing up in the late 70s and 80s.

I had a great childhood, we were poor but happy and judging by your username I'd say we are the same age.

OnDraught

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Yeah but she will never experience the nice fine summers we had growing up in the late 70s and 80s.

I had a great childhood, we were poor but happy and judging by your username I'd say we are the same age.

Is this post in reference to climate change or economic circumstances or something else?

Noel82

Grayson wrote: »

No-one has ever said that. In fact one thing that people mention time and time again is that it's fine to call out faults with islam but you have to do the same for christians. You also can't make blanket statements about muslims when similar blanket statements would be unacceptable about christians.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/children/11723308/First-cousin-marriages-in-Pakistani-communities-leading-to-appalling-disabilities-among-children.html

Medical data previously suggested that while British Pakistanis were responsible for 3 per cent of all births, they accounted for 30 per cent of British children born with a genetic illness

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/sep/05/newcastle-grooming-gang-members-jailed-up-to-29-years

Newcastle crown court heard how the gang’s victims, aged between 13 and 25, were given alcohol and the class B drug mephedrone before being sexually assaulted at “sessions” in the west end of the city.

The case, which had echoes of sex grooming scandals in Rochdale, Rotherham and Oxford, formed part of the biggest ever investigation into child and adult exploitation in the north-east, which has identified 780 potential victims.

Call them "Asians" but everyone knows what it is. Comparing both religions in this day and age is laughable at best. One is a arse backwards medieval ideology that treats Woman and gays worse than animals, and the other is a large part of what created the safest and best culture in the world, i.e. The west. Those two examples are a dot in the long list of examples associated with Muslim communities, inbreeding and grooming gangs. I have no time for Religion for the most part but please, this idiotic comparison has to stop, it's not based in reality.

Spider Web

Benjamin Buttons wrote: »

The 'sneering' started with the hoary old 'Benetton ad' dig.
A dig at the OP and the idea posited in the thread title.
So why was 'Hans' sneering?
You'll have to ask him, though I suspect that he doesn't believe multiculturalism to be a fabarooney idea and thought therefore that a reference to Benetton might be humourous and apposite in the circumstances.
But be assured, he started the sneering.

It was just a joke I thought.

Shenshen wrote: »

Well, yes, but you know that the moment you type the words multi-cultural, or Immigration, a sizeable (or possibly actually just a very small but loud, I'm not even that sure) number of posters will read "Islam" and "Sharia".

So even though only one person in the OP may possibly be a Muslim, this is what the discussion will center around.

I suppose though there are the other things said in the post, which dav3 just took a snippet from - it wasn't telling the full story.

Deleted User wrote: »

I genuinely have no issue with Islam or Sharia law in Islamic countries. Just as I had no issue with the Chinese government when I lived in their country. Or the tribalism and self-mutilation of a number of African nations I visited. That's their country, their culture and the way they want to live. If they want something different, change it.

I have a problem with some of those things - I don't think it being their culture and the way they want to live (a lot of them don't - what about the people punished under Sharia law?) is reason enough to be accepting of it.

Brian?

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I'm not offended.

Merely pointing out the hypocrisy of deriding free speech, while using that same free speech to deride Catholics, and equate their beliefs with Muslim beliefs, which are markedly different, together with a marked lack of acknowledgement of other extreme right-wing groups. After all, there aren't too many extreme right wing Catholics in Ireland, and making the same comment about right wing Hindus/Buddhists/Sikhs/Protestants/Evangelicals/Atheists would spark an immediate backlash, if only about any attempt to deny them the right to free speech.

It's as if the all the ills in the Country were exclusively caused by Catholics - which is ridiculous - so I decided to debate the point.

No offense necessary.

Straw man 1: When did I deride free speech? I'm pointing out the hypocrisy of people who hold anti Muslim extremis views but don't also hold anti Catholic extremist views.

Straw man 2: I never said all the ills of Ireland were caused by Catholics. That's simply ridiculous.

The Catholic Church did some horrific things in Ireland. Mother and baby homes. Covering up paedophile priests, who raped children let's not forget. Yet, no is talking about banning Catholics enter the country and rightly so. I don't believe Catholics are inherently bad people, just like I don't believe Muslims are inherently bad people. It's hypocrisy to object to one set of people based on religion but not to the other.

I know some very fine people who are Christian and some very fine people who are Muslim. That's the great thing about multiculturalism.

Spider Web

Spider Web wrote: »

I have a problem with some of those things - I don't think it being their culture and the way they want to live (a lot of them don't - what about the people punished under Sharia law?) is reason enough to be accepting of it.

I don't have an issue with it staying in their own country.. hence why I don't consider criticising it, regulating or preventing it in Europe to be a bad thing. They prevent our culture, religion etc from growing in their own countries...

OnDraught

Brian? wrote: »

I know some very fine people who are Christian and some very fine people who are Muslim. That's the great thing about multiculturalism.

This is essentially it. There's extremists on this thread that will never be able to fathom that the vast majority of people despite their race, religion, colour, sexual preference and whatnot just want to get on with getting on.