€7000 in fines for doing donuts.

millington

cbreeze wrote: »

The Judge was sensible to fine these two drivers €3,500 apiece. I hope they will be able to pay it in instalments out of their dole money, or whatever money they have to live on.

If they're driving Twin Cams on the dole, I'm doing something very wrong with my life

Cheensbo

millington wrote: »

If they're driving Twin Cams on the dole, I'm doing something very wrong with my life

I've been saving for one since i was about 10 - they just keep going out of reach, now they're too expensive to be worth it

marcus001

Cheensbo wrote: »

Sorry, for thinking you would be talking about donuts, you know - in a thread about donuts.

Never judge a thread by its title.

millington

Cheensbo wrote: »

I've been saving for one since i was about 10 - they just keep going out of reach, now they're too expensive to be worth it

Don't buy one. The money you were putting aside to save for it will be needed again to keep the thing on the road. it's the end of financial stability!

zerks wrote: »

Many have missed one important thing.As stupid as doing donuts on a public road is,the crashes that kill or injure lads who like a bit of fun on the roads tend to happen before or after they've burnt a bit of rubber.If they overestimate their skill as a driver cos they can do a bit of diffing then they see every bend as a challenge to see how fast they can take it and every straight as a drag strip. Too many young lads killed or injured on the roads especially late at night "when it's safer and not as busy".

This could not be any less true. Find evidence of ONE fatal accident in the last 5 years in a RWD car with an LSD?

Cheensbo

millington wrote: »

Don't buy one. The money you were putting aside to save for it will be needed again to keep the thing on the road. it's the end of financial stability!

Sure you know I'm already in that boat, what's another money pit to add to the collection?

Miike

millington wrote: »

This could not be any less true. Find evidence of ONE fatal accident in the last 5 years in a RWD car with an LSD?

RWD w/ LSD makes drivers immortal? You'd think they'd advertise that more.

Marcusm

Henry Ford III wrote: »

I think the fines will be the least of these drivers issues.

If the "get the benefit of the Probation Act" and these are poor box donations then there is no conviction, no points and nothing to report to insurers. They will have no other problems which would be a disgrace, a thundering disgrace I say.

dr.fuzzenstein

Well, hope the Gard goes back to chasing real criminals after that.
I bet he was saying in court "Ah Jaysis, dey were going fierrce fasht alltogether!"

I have driven in Irleand from 1994 to 2016. And not just to the shops and back. Almost all of the most dangerous situations I've witnessed were due to Rep Man in his Mondeo. Or Mary in her Passat blocking the "fasht" lane of the motorway at 90 km/h. Or 90 year old Johnny driving at 30 km/h whilst weaving all over the road in his Tiida. And definitely a certain "ethnic" group using pony and trap as a mode of transport.
This whole hysteria about boy racers (how I hate that term) is bullsh*t of the highest order.

CiniO

2 weeks ago, on big grass area around the beach I often go to, there was family. They came with 2 kids (probably pre teen or early teen years) a trailer, and 2 quads. One was 50ccm, other something bigger, not sure....
Kids were drifting, and doing donuts on that grass area for hours. Lots of noise, grass damaged in some spots.

On top of that there were plenty of people around, and no one said anything.
No gards were called.
Generally speaking total acceptance.


Even though this was public place.
If kids overturned a quad they could be hurt or killed.
They could run someone over and kill them as well.


But if instead of grass area it would be big tarred area like beach parking etc, and few young lads came with their cars to do donuts, I can bet gards would be called in no time. Either by other beach users, or by people living in houses nearby.

But where does the difference in perception come from?

Both activities IMO present the same level of dangerousness, and in both cases this level is extremely low.

Marcusm

grogi wrote: »

This. On the other side, the dangerous driving offence is often used when the person did not really drive dangerously. It is often a catch-all case...

All that together results in no respect to the law nor to the Gardaí.

I think you're confusing "dangerous" with "without due care and attention" or "without reasonable consideration" which are the more minor offences. Dangerous is serious; it's where it might cause danger to the public and doughnuting cars on a narrow road near pedestrians definitely counts. I suspect there remains a question over whether the evidence of the video is acceptable and thus they have not been tried on the serious offence (which could carry prison time).

CiniO

bladespin wrote: »

Loud = scary must be mad dangerous.

I actually think there must be something in that.
Skidding on roads covered in snow, and people usually don't mind.
Because it's quiet.
If you do same thing on dry tarmac and tyres squelch, then same thing starts looking way more dangerous in the eyes of random viewers.

dr.fuzzenstein

CiniO wrote: »

2 weeks ago, on big grass area around the beach I often go to, there was family. They came with 2 kids (probably pre teen or early teen years) a trailer, and 2 quads. One was 50ccm, other something bigger, not sure....
Kids were drifting, and doing donuts on that grass area for hours. Lots of noise, grass damaged in some spots.

On top of that there were plenty of people around, and no one said anything.
No gards were called.
Generally speaking total acceptance.


Even though this was public place.
If kids overturned a quad they could be hurt or killed.
They could run someone over and kill them as well.


But if instead of grass area it would be big tarred area like beach parking etc, and few young lads came with their cars to do donuts, I can bet gards would be called in no time. Either by other beach users, or by people living in houses nearby.

But where does the difference in perception come from?

Both activities IMO present the same level of dangerousness, and in both cases this level is extremely low.

This is Ireland, of course there should have been a fine of a few thousand Euro, license gone for 2 years and thrown in jail.
I mean they still teach the shuffle method here ffs.

CiniO

muddle84 wrote: »

Powersliding around a bend is a dangerous thing to do regardless of your skill level and knowledge of your own car. Yes you have full control over your car but you have no control over the conditions and whats around the bend. If its a public road there is risk involved in this.

You dont' have control what's behind the bend or the conditions, but you can see both. You can see what are the conditions and you can see what is behind the bend.

Obviously if it's blind bend and you can't see, then there's no way to do any skid there as cars might be oncoming.

dr.fuzzenstein

marcus001 wrote: »

A donut isn't a racing move.

It kind of falls into drifting, but you are correct, it is neither racing, nor sport. It's just arsing around.
But that's just my opinion on drifiting and OT.

Marcusm

CiniO wrote: »

2 weeks ago, on big grass area around the beach I often go to, there was family. They came with 2 kids (probably pre teen or early teen years) a trailer, and 2 quads. One was 50ccm, other something bigger, not sure....
Kids were drifting, and doing donuts on that grass area for hours. Lots of noise, grass damaged in some spots.

On top of that there were plenty of people around, and no one said anything.
No gards were called.
Generally speaking total acceptance.


Even though this was public place.
If kids overturned a quad they could be hurt or killed.
They could run someone over and kill them as well.


But if instead of grass area it would be big tarred area like beach parking etc, and few young lads came with their cars to do donuts, I can bet gards would be called in no time. Either by other beach users, or by people living in houses nearby.

But where does the difference in perception come from?

Both activities IMO present the same level of dangerousness, and in both cases this level is extremely low.

Basic physics would let you know that the damage inflicted through a collision with a quad bike and a car at similar speeds is entirely different.

CiniO

marcus001 wrote: »

You feel confident because you mistake never having crashed for being a good driver. I hope you smash into a wall before you smash into someone else. Not because I want anything bad to happen to you but because you crashing is inevitable.

Heh.
Well I have been driving for 18 years so far, and never crashed.
Vehicle control is skid is my favourite skill, and I've been practicing it ever since, which cost me lots of time and money, but gave me the skills and fun.

But yes - me smashing into the wall is possible (not inevitable). Either when skidding or during normal driving - anything can happen.

One thing though I can guarantee, that I won't smash into someone else when doing my skidding tricks, because I never do it with anyone around.

But I can guarantee you that I won't smash into someone in normal traffic, because as I said above everything is possible.

You might even be my passenger one day and be killed because of my mistake.

CiniO

dense wrote: »

Lots to learn here!

How do you skid or drift around a corner and simultaneously keep the car on your side of the road?

I take it we're talking fairly acute bends here, R roads, L roads type of thing?

What speed do you have to hit before you lose tyre grip?

Your perfectly controlled loss of tyre grip of course........

Also, can you see around corners?

How does that work?

Firstly, I mentioned many times most I do it on snow, which quite indicates it's not in Ireland, as we don't really get snow on roads here.

Secondly no, often you don't stay on your side of the road, but what's the problem if no other cars around.

Speed - depends - but I either drive fast and keep grip, or drive slowly and slide.

And yes - I'd only do slides on straight stretches or bends with perfect visibility - which there are plenty.

murphthesmurf

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Well, hope the Gard goes back to chasing real criminals after that.
I bet he was saying in court "Ah Jaysis, dey were going fierrce fasht alltogether!"

I have driven in Irleand from 1994 to 2016. And not just to the shops and back. Almost all of the most dangerous situations I've witnessed were due to Rep Man in his Mondeo. Or Mary in her Passat blocking the "fasht" lane of the motorway at 90 km/h. Or 90 year old Johnny driving at 30 km/h whilst weaving all over the road in his Tiida. And definitely a certain "ethnic" group using pony and trap as a mode of transport.
This whole hysteria about boy racers (how I hate that term) is bullsh*t of the highest order.

Couldn't agree more, I've been living in Ireland for 6 years and in that time have driven over 300,000 miles in that time from Donegal to Kerry. The biggest danger I face on a daily basis is incompetence and clueless ignorance. The farmer in his 20 yr old 4x4 spewing out clouds of black smoke at 60kph on a 100kph road and no idea what that flappy stick mounted next to steering wheel is for. Or at the opposite end of the spectrum the millenial on his/her mobile phone and not a clue what day it is never mind whats going on around them. I'm against drink driving, but I'd sooner take my chances with someone who's had 3 pints than someone on the mobile phone. But thats another matter.
If they are near peoples houses causing noise late at night then move them on. But if they are out in the sticks on a quiet road away from everyone then leave them be. Were none of you ever young? Too much nanny state mentality. My son does horse riding lessons every week, he loves it and wants to be a show jumper. He's at more risk doing that than people will ever be from these 'boy racers'. I read a newspaper article a few years back that stated more people are killed or seriously injured in 'horse sports' than motorcycle racing. Stol trying to wrap everything up in cotton wool and clamping down on anything fun that may involve any risk. If they want to risk themselves and their cars then let them be. Most likely they will learn better car control than most of you ever will.

CiniO

Marcusm wrote: »

Basic physics would let you know that the damage inflicted through a collision with a quad bike and a car at similar speeds is entirely different.

Well I can guarantee you can be easily killed if run over by a quad.

baaba maal

Synthol wrote: »

Completely agree, there should be mandatory death penalty without a trial just like in Saudi Arabia. Exceeding the speed by 1 km/h or more also should be mandatory death penalty. Having no tax, nct or insurance should be life in prison without parole and with hard labour which includes working for 16 hours per day 7 days per week including all the national holidays.

I thought you were fond of doling out "punishment" to other road users you deemed to be guilty of not driving to your satisfaction?
Summary justice indeed.

Ultimate Seduction

bladespin wrote:

A doughnut is a 360 powerslide, I know of no other way of performing one.

No, it's a burnout that you do going around in circles. A powerslide or drifting is something you do going around bends at speed

dr.fuzzenstein

murphthesmurf wrote: »

Couldn't agree more, I've been living in Ireland for 6 years and in that time have driven over 300,000 miles in that time from Donegal to Kerry. The biggest danger I face on a daily basis is incompetence and clueless ignorance. The farmer in his 20 yr old 4x4 spewing out clouds of black smoke at 60kph on a 100kph road and no idea what that flappy stick mounted next to steering wheel is for. Or at the opposite end of the spectrum the millenial on his/her mobile phone and not a clue what day it is never mind whats going on around them. I'm against drink driving, but I'd sooner take my chances with someone who's had 3 pints than someone on the mobile phone. But thats another matter.
If they are near peoples houses causing noise late at night then move them on. But if they are out in the sticks on a quiet road away from everyone then leave them be. Were none of you ever young? Too much nanny state mentality. My son does horse riding lessons every week, he loves it and wants to be a show jumper. He's at more risk doing that than people will ever be from these 'boy racers'. I read a newspaper article a few years back that stated more people are killed or seriously injured in 'horse sports' than motorcycle racing. Stol trying to wrap everything up in cotton wool and clamping down on anything fun that may involve any risk. If they want to risk themselves and their cars then let them be. Most likely they will learn better car control than most of you ever will.

There really is an attitude of "speed kills, everything else is irrelevant"
Incompetence, driving too slow, ignoring signals, lights and signs, lane discipline on motorways, correct roundabout usage and around schools just about any law or common courtesy, thats all fine and dandy, but drive 1 km/h too fast, rev your engine or squeal your tires, Jesus, you're a mass murderer!

millington

Miike wrote: »

RWD w/ LSD makes drivers immortal? You'd think they'd advertise that more.

That statement has no relevance to the question :rolleyes:

dense

murphthesmurf wrote: »

Couldn't agree more, I've been living in Ireland for 6 years and in that time have driven over 300,000 miles in that time from Donegal to Kerry. The biggest danger I face on a daily basis is incompetence and clueless ignorance. The farmer in his 20 yr old 4x4 spewing out clouds of black smoke at 60kph on a 100kph road and no idea what that flappy stick mounted next to steering wheel is for. Or at the opposite end of the spectrum the millenial on his/her mobile phone and not a clue what day it is never mind whats going on around them. I'm against drink driving, but I'd sooner take my chances with someone who's had 3 pints than someone on the mobile phone. But thats another matter.
If they are near peoples houses causing noise late at night then move them on. But if they are out in the sticks on a quiet road away from everyone then leave them be. Were none of you ever young? Too much nanny state mentality. My son does horse riding lessons every week, he loves it and wants to be a show jumper. He's at more risk doing that than people will ever be from these 'boy racers'. I read a newspaper article a few years back that stated more people are killed or seriously injured in 'horse sports' than motorcycle racing. Stol trying to wrap everything up in cotton wool and clamping down on anything fun that may involve any risk. If they want to risk themselves and their cars then let them be. Most likely they will learn better car control than most of you ever will.

I'd agree with much of what you say, but let them hone their skills and thrills elsewhere.

Do you seriously think you'd like to regularly encounter kids doing donuts as you traverse the country? You seem to be complaining about being held up by slow drivers as it is.

CiniO

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

There really is an attitude of "speed kills, everything else is irrelevant"
Incompetence, driving too slow, ignoring signals, lights and signs, lane discipline on motorways, correct roundabout usage and around schools just about any law or common courtesy, thats all fine and dandy, but drive 1 km/h too fast, rev your engine or squeal your tires, Jesus, you're a mass murderer!

That reminds me of an little incident I had in Galway many years ago only after a month driving in Ireland.
I was driving in Galway from Hospital area towards Cathedral parking, and trying to turn right past Cathedral to the Cathedral parking.
Very heavy traffic oncoming from the bridge so it took me ages to find a gap in oncoming cars.
Finally there was a small gap, so I accelerated quick and tyres squealed slightly. Just after junction there was green light for me and red light for pedestrians but pedestrian was crossing. I've seen him in last moment so I hit the brakes and stopped not hitting him, but it was close.
Then drove to the parking.
He chased me up, and started shouting that I wanted to run him over, and I was squealing the tyres so that's a proof I was going to fast and he is one of the bus drivers (buses park there) and he has lots of his friend witnesses so he's going to sue me.
He never did eventually, but it was a good lesson for me.

Only then I learnt, that in Ireland people can cross the roads wherever and whatever they like and if they get hit it's always driver's fault anyway. That's was absolute news to me.
Also I learnt that it's absolutely normal for people to cross street on red light.
As well as squealing the tyres is percieved as symptom of very dangerous driving.
None of the above, I've seen or heard abroad where I've driven already for 8 years by then.

murphthesmurf

dense wrote: »

I'd agree with much of what you say, but let them hone their skills and thrills elsewhere.

Do you seriously think you'd like to regularly encounter kids doing donuts as you traverse the country? You seem to be complaining about being held up by slow drivers as it is.

But it's not like they are around every corner. There's just a few of them out in the sticks on an evening. I think the Gards in Ireland are generally top notch and have a more common sense approach to policing than the UK where everything is by the book word for word, surely they could have a quiet word with these kids. If they stick to a certain area at certain times and all the cars are fully legal, they don't cause a nuisance to anyone etc etc. Then the Gards will turn a blind eye, drive by every so often to make sure things aren't out of control. 99% of the kids would respect that and be grateful for the chance. If you hound them out of one area they'll just move to another. My friends and i did exactly that when i was younger, it just creates resentment towards the Gards.
A friend of mine years ago used to be one of these skateboarders. They used to go on to car parks at night. The police and security would harass them all the time, even though they were doing no harm. He eventually contacted one supermarket and asked them if they would mind them being on their car park at night, in return they would report anyone who shouldn't be there or behaving badly. They agreed, win win for both parties. Do something similar with these kids. Rural crime is such a problem now with all the Garda stations closed. The Gards tell them they will turn a blind eye and in return no drinking, littering, be considerate towards anyone else passing by and be our eyes and ears for anything untoward.

Sue Pa Key Pa

Why is everyone citing examples of what they consider to be more dangerous practices than drifting, using that as an excuse to justify it?

The slow auld boys, the lads on the phone, the speeders, the drink drivers etc are all a menace on our roads. We should be looking to eradicate all aspects of poor driving, including drifting, for the greater good of all. The excuse of 'I'm good enough to drive how I like' attitude is sickening. You have no right to impose yourself on me as I go about my business

bladespin

Ultimate Seduction wrote:

No, it's a burnout that you do going around in circles. A powerslide or drifting is something you do going around bends at speed

No, you are using the power of the engine to break tyre traction which is technically power sliding and yes, a burn out is also a form of powerslide though you're stationary the tyre is 'sliding'.

dense

murphthesmurf wrote: »

But it's not like they are around every corner. There's just a few of them out in the sticks on an evening. I think the Gards in Ireland are generally top notch and have a more common sense approach to policing than the UK where everything is by the book word for word, surely they could have a quiet word with these kids. If they stick to a certain area at certain times and all the cars are fully legal, they don't cause a nuisance to anyone etc etc. Then the Gards will turn a blind eye, drive by every so often to make sure things aren't out of control. 99% of the kids would respect that and be grateful for the chance. If you hound them out of one area they'll just move to another. My friends and i did exactly that when i was younger, it just creates resentment towards the Gards.
A friend of mine years ago used to be one of these skateboarders. They used to go on to car parks at night. The police and security would harass them all the time, even though they were doing no harm. He eventually contacted one supermarket and asked them if they would mind them being on their car park at night, in return they would report anyone who shouldn't be there or behaving badly. They agreed, win win for both parties. Do something similar with these kids. Rural crime is such a problem now with all the Garda stations closed. The Gards tell them they will turn a blind eye and in return no drinking, littering, be considerate towards anyone else passing by and be our eyes and ears for anything untoward.

It's anti social behaviour. It's demonstrates a lack of respect and gives two fingers to the Gaurds.
I wouldn't like it on my road, I doubt anyone would.

Yes it's done rurally purely because there's little chance of being caught doing it.

In this instance though I believe the Gardai couldn't be seen to be sitting on their hands about it. It had been published and presumably widely hailed on Facebook. These guys made their own beds.

As an aside, what would the case be if someone publishes a video of themselves "drunk" getting into a car and driving?

Could the law retrospectively come down on them like in this case? AFAIK the guards didn't witness the event we're talking about, and "tracked down" the offenders through Facebook.

bladespin

dense wrote:

As an aside, what would the case be if someone publishes a video of themselves "drunk" getting into a car and driving?

dense wrote:

Could the law retrospectively come down on them like in this case? AFAIK the guards didn't witness the event we're talking about, and "tracked down" the offenders through Facebook.

It does raise all sorts of questions about what qualifies as evidence imo.