Does the old IRA still exist? (Mod warning in op)

jimboblep · 01-09-2017 12:51pm

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

How many IRA's are there?

Real IRA
Continuity IRA
Old IRA
The IRA
I Can't Believe it's Not the IRA

etc etc...

Splitters

A Little Pony · 01-09-2017 1:01pm

masti123 wrote: »

FTA69 wrote: »

What are you on about Sutch?

There was no disbanding of any IRA in the 1950s. After the Civil War the IRA basically continued as a reasonably solid incarnation (bar a few people foraying into organisations such as Saor Uladh, Saor Éire and a few other schisms) until 1969 when the IRA split into the Provisionals (later to become the de facto Irish Republican Army) and the Officials (later to become the Workers Party and then a part of Labour.)

The Provisionals went on ceasefire in 1994, later continued in 1996 and wound up generally around 2007. They still do exist however, but no longer on a military or operational footing.

The Provisionals were the de facto Irish Republican Army after the 1969 for the fact that they were the only army to recognise the Irish Republic. You cannot claim to the the Army of the Irish Republic while not recognising that Republic. It stands to reason.

The same logic would apply for the Continuity movement after the 1986 split.

The only true Irish Republican Army.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defence_Forces_(Ireland)

masti123 · 01-09-2017 1:04pm

A Little Pony wrote: »

The only true Irish Republican Army.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defence_Forces_(Ireland)

What's the logic in that argument? They were formed in 1922 to overthrow the Irish Republic and destroy the Irish Republican Army, no?

A Little Pony · 01-09-2017 1:07pm

masti123 wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

The only true Irish Republican Army.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defence_Forces_(Ireland)

What's the logic in that argument? They were formed in 1922 to overthrow the Irish Republic and destroy the Irish Republican Army, no?

To defeat terrorists who went against the legitimate state and agreement.

twill · 01-09-2017 2:57pm

A Little Pony wrote: »

To defeat terrorists who went against the legitimate state and agreement.

Common perception, especially as it was roared about by the pro-war crowd, but ultimately not true. The British wanted the treaty through, and quick, and their position from the start was the treaty or war. They got what they wanted, which was both. Most of the IRA, pro- and anti-treaty, never wanted war.

01-09-2017 2:58pm

I've heard of some "old" IRA heads deep further in Connemara.

Grayson · 01-09-2017 3:09pm

twill wrote: »

Common perception, especially as it was roared about by the pro-war crowd, but ultimately not true. The British wanted the treaty through, and quick, and their position from the start was the treaty or war. They got what they wanted, which was both. Most of the IRA, pro- and anti-treaty, never wanted war.

They were already fighting a war.

Míshásta · 01-09-2017 3:15pm

The "Old IRA" used to refer to the pre-Treaty organization. That was how it was referred to by people who had fought at the time. It was an unofficial term of course.

I just don't know what this thread is about.

Dyr · 01-09-2017 3:16pm

A Little Pony wrote: »

To defeat terrorists who went against the legitimate state and agreement.

Much like The Provo's did, The Irish Army spout this sillyidea that they are descended from the War of Independence IRA.

They are of course descended from the National Army, which had more of the British Army in rank and file then the old IRA.

dd972 · 01-09-2017 3:34pm

The PIRA in the North had the means and capacity to wipe out Loyalist sectarian murder gangs so why didn't they do it? Especially between 1988 and 1993 when there were lots of instances of innocent Catholics being killed, they were such an abhorrent and corrupt organisation that I suspect they allowed these murders to continue to increase the Nationalist communities dependency on them. People like Scappaticci and Denis Donaldson sum them up.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer · 01-09-2017 3:37pm

LordSutch wrote: »

I think the old IRA disbanded in the 1950s.

No, it just split into Official and Provisional in the late 60s.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer · 01-09-2017 3:40pm

The claim that the IRA of 1919-1921 was somehow vastly different to the Provos is laughable.

Atoms for Peace · 01-09-2017 3:45pm

A more interesting question would be does the IRB still exist? They seemed to be the ones behind the scenes pulling the strings of the old IRA back in the day and during the civil war the leading members of the free state army, including collins who was president, were members as well.

the_syco · 01-09-2017 3:46pm

dd972 wrote: »

there were lots of instances of innocent Catholics being killed

I'd say PIRA did their share of killing innocent cathollics.

the_syco · 01-09-2017 3:47pm

Atoms for Peace wrote: »

A more interesting question would be does the IRB still exist?

Pretty sure the IRB became the free state army, and the IRA were those that opposed it?

maudgonner · 01-09-2017 3:47pm

I don't know how the Continuity IRA managed to fit in the fighting, in between announcing the programmes on RTÉ?

odyssey06 · 01-09-2017 4:03pm

I think the OP's question is whether there is a republican grouping that does not recognise the 26-county state and is socialist... from what I'm reading so far, the answer is no?

The Continuity IRA does not recognise the 26-county state but from reading of their activities there appears to be no evidence of socialism.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuity_Irish_Republican_Army

So... any more contenders?

munsterlegend · 01-09-2017 4:13pm

Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: »

The claim that the IRA of 1919-1921 was somehow vastly different to the Provos is laughable.

It was the army of the Irish people back in 1919. An election saw Sinn Fein candidates overwhelming returned. The army in 1919 fought the war how it needed to be won. It would have been pretty silly to have direct engagement.

As for the provisional movement it wasn't backed by a mandate from its people or community. One could argue on occasions it did given the election of known activists such as Sands etc but it was a world away from the war of independence IRA but that just is more an indication of the basket case Northern Ireland had become and still is.

DEFTLEFTHAND · 01-09-2017 4:14pm

joeguevara wrote: »

Republicanism is very strange....especially down south....as an ex owner of a bar in Carlow, I was always amazed at who tried to demand do my door....for example, my father is from Donegal and he invited a great band (similar to the Wolfe tones) to sing...three days before a Sinn Fein councillor came in and demanded 10% of the takings as the pub was making profits off the sinn finn struggle...my father asked him was he in castlrea or portlaoise, he stuttered and wasn't long being told to leave...I have never seen as many armchair republicans as I have seen being an owner of a bar...people being associated with gangs, parties and especially people...I love songs and history, and I cannot stand bully's..I especiallly cannot stand people who try and make money off others..

A SF Cllr attempted to shake down your pub?

Christ, the type of people we have serving in public office in this country.

hurler32 · 01-09-2017 4:27pm

Often wonder why people bothered with the 100 year celebrations of 1916.....i'm sure Pearse , Connolly etc wouldnt be too pleased that over a 100 years later we still couldnt manage to get a United Ireland???

A three quarters free Ireland is some fudge for the last 90 years ...why should a person in County Clare live under an Irish Government as opposed to a person in County Tyrone....??

end of the road · 01-09-2017 4:34pm

hurler32 wrote: »

Often wonder why people bothered with the 100 year celebrations of 1916.....i'm sure Pearse , Connolly etc wouldnt be too pleased that over a 100 years later we still couldnt manage to get a United Ireland???

A three quarters free Ireland is some fudge for the last 90 years ...why should a person in County Clare live under an Irish Government as opposed to a person in County Tyrone....??

there will be a UI eventually. it is coming. we will all be under an irish government soon free from britain, a 32 county republic as is meant and supposed to be.

Chester Copperpot · 01-09-2017 4:50pm

dd972 wrote: »

The PIRA in the North had the means and capacity to wipe out Loyalist sectarian murder gangs so why didn't they do it? Especially between 1988 and 1993 when there were lots of instances of innocent Catholics being killed, they were such an abhorrent and corrupt organisation that I suspect they allowed these murders to continue to increase the Nationalist communities dependency on them. People like Scappaticci and Denis Donaldson sum them up.

Surely people like Donaldson and scappaticci sum up the British security services

A Little Pony · 01-09-2017 5:02pm

Bambi wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

To defeat terrorists who went against the legitimate state and agreement.

Much like The Provo's did, The Irish Army spout this sillyidea that they are descended from the War of Independence IRA.

They are of course descended from the National Army, which had more of the British Army in rank and file then the old IRA.

No comparison between the legitimate army of the Republic and all the terrorist groups from early 20th century to the 70s terrorists.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer · 01-09-2017 5:05pm

munsterlegend wrote: »

It was the army of the Irish people back in 1919. An election saw Sinn Fein candidates overwhelming returned. The army in 1919 fought the war how it needed to be won. It would have been pretty silly to have direct engagement.

As for the provisional movement it wasn't backed by a mandate from its people or community. One could argue on occasions it did given the election of known activists such as Sands etc but it was a world away from the war of independence IRA but that just is more an indication of the basket case Northern Ireland had become and still is.

The majority of Sinn Fein voters in 1918 did not vote for war. Even many members of the first Dail were opposed to the war. The IRA largely did what it wanted and ignored the Dail.

I'm not saying that were wrong by the way. I'm saying that the effort to draw a strong line between them and the provos is largely ahistorical.

Ipso · 01-09-2017 5:31pm

Is An Poblacht still on the go? Like Fox News in print form turned up to 11.

sligojoek · 01-09-2017 6:26pm

"I always thought the IRB were the IRA's second team." Ross O Carroll Kelly.

Arsemageddon · 01-09-2017 7:12pm

A Little Pony wrote: »

No comparison between the legitimate army of the Republic and all the terrorist groups from early 20th century to the 70s terrorists.

.... and how pray tell, do you think the Republic of Ireland and the Irish Defence Forces came to be established?

Arsemageddon · 01-09-2017 7:21pm

timthumbni wrote: »

And everyone of them are complete losers and cocksuckers to boot....

So you think Micheal Collins et al were 'cocksuckers'!? Sounds like homoerotic wishful thinking on your part.

Considering the War of Independence led to the establishment of an Irish Republic your `losers' comment is factually incorrect.

MadDog76 · 01-09-2017 8:43pm

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

How many IRA's are there?

Real IRA
Continuity IRA
Old IRA
The IRA
I Can't Believe it's Not the IRA

etc etc...

Is that you Patrick Kielty?

retalivity · 01-09-2017 8:55pm

end of the road wrote: »

there will be a UI eventually. it is coming. we will all be under an irish government soon free from britain, a 32 county republic as is meant and supposed to be.

Hopefully not. And i say that as an irishman with no nationalistic tendencies. Trying to incorporate the tens of thousands of absolute head-the-balls who are anti-everything irish north of the border will be a disaster. They can have their little statelet

Does the old IRA still exist? (Mod warning in op)

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