Does the old IRA still exist? (Mod warning in op)

Rumpy Pumpy · 01-09-2017 12:14am #1

Drinking in a pub on the periphery of Dublin CC, and a few auld lads came in selling a newspaper called The Starry Plough. Didn't buy a copy, but had a read of it while waiting for the barman to hurry up.

Is there still a Republican tradition that rejects the idea of the 26 county 'statelet'? And advocates a 32 county socialist republic?

Mod-This is turning in to a political thread. Get back on topic please or it will be moved or locked. Thank you

Kerryman79 · 01-09-2017 12:19am

Dude thats the INLA not the IRA or PIRA

joeguevara · 01-09-2017 12:41am

Republicanism is very strange....especially down south....as an ex owner of a bar in Carlow, I was always amazed at who tried to demand do my door....for example, my father is from Donegal and he invited a great band (similar to the Wolfe tones) to sing...three days before a Sinn Fein councillor came in and demanded 10% of the takings as the pub was making profits off the sinn finn struggle...my father asked him was he in castlrea or portlaoise, he stuttered and wasn't long being told to leave...I have never seen as many armchair republicans as I have seen being an owner of a bar...people being associated with gangs, parties and especially people...I love songs and history, and I cannot stand bully's..I especiallly cannot stand people who try and make money off others..

Wexfordboy89 · 01-09-2017 12:52am

If u mean the civil war ira then no they disbanded in the 50s afaik.

Are Am Eye · 01-09-2017 12:54am

The INLA subsribe to the principle You read it-You buy it.
Expect a visit from the boys in the wooly hats OP.

masti123 · 01-09-2017 1:09am

The Continuity IRA exist and Republican Sinn Féin. They've maintained the Republican tradition of rejecting the two partitionist states.

Since 1923 there have been two splits with the IRA/Sinn Féin. The first being in 1969 when the Officials voted to accept Leinster House and Stormont at their Árd Fheis and Army Convention. The 'traditionalists' walked out and formed the Provisional IRA, stating that they remained loyal to the Irish Republic, and thus they were the true Republican Movement.

And the other split in 1986 was essentially a repeat. The Provisionals voted to accept Leinster House. The 'traditionalists' walked out and formed the Continuity IRA, stating that they remained loyal to the Irish Republic, and thus they were the true Republican Movement.

joeguevara · 01-09-2017 1:15am

masti123 wrote: »

The Continuity IRA exist and republican Sinn Féin. They've maintained the Republican tradition of rejecting the two partitionist states.

Since 1923 there have been two splits with the IRA/Sinn Féin. The first being in 1969 when the Officials voted to accept Leinster House and Stormont at their Árd Fheis and Army Convention. The 'traditionalists' walked out and formed the Provisional IRA, stating that they remained loyal to the Irish Republic, and thus they were the true Republican Movement.

And the other split in 1986 was essentially a repeat. The Provisionals voted to accept Leinster House. The 'traditionalists' walked out and from the Continuity IRA and Republican Sinn Féin, stating that they remained loyal to the Irish Republic, and thus they were the true Republican Movement.

You're right and you're wrong....you have quoted an historical reason for different republican parties.... in reality, the man on the street will have little knowledge if he is a sticky, provoor or an irp...he will hate the crown and what he does will back that up...he will follow his father for the fraction he is in....that is my understanding, maybe I am wrong?

Kermit.de.frog · 01-09-2017 1:16am

How many IRA's are there?

Real IRA
Continuity IRA
Old IRA
The IRA
I Can't Believe it's Not the IRA

etc etc...

timthumbni · 01-09-2017 2:56am

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

How many IRA's are there?

Real IRA
Continuity IRA
Old IRA
The IRA
I Can't Believe it's Not the IRA

etc etc...

And everyone of them are complete losers and cocksuckers to boot....

Cookie_Monster · 01-09-2017 4:28am

They'll be back in force on Brexit puts the border back up, fun and games all round.

whisky_galore · 01-09-2017 6:13am

They're in the diesel laundering business now. ..

fermanagh_man · 01-09-2017 6:18am

We haven't gone away you know

lifeandtimes · 01-09-2017 6:20am

There's no IRA.....and we'll kill anyone who says there is!

LordSutch · 01-09-2017 6:24am

Rumpy Pumpy wrote: »

Does the old IRA still exist?

I think the old IRA disbanded in the 1950s.
The Provisional IRA disbanded in the 90s.

Then there was a crop of new IRAs, of which I know nothing ........

Continuity IRA, New IRA, Real IRA, Low fat IRA, Bad IRA, Phat IRA, I can't believe its not the real IRA - IRA, etc . . . . . lots of black barets, balaclavas, doc martins, tats & sunglasses

No bombs or shootings, which is nice.

fatknacker · 01-09-2017 6:47am

IRA
IRB
IRC

twilight_singer · 01-09-2017 6:55am

Old IRA should of seriously copyrighted the name/brand......think of the royalties!!

Effects · 01-09-2017 6:55am

whisky_galore wrote: »

They're in the diesel laundering business now. ..

Now? Didn't they start it off here.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 01-09-2017 7:41am

Rumpy Pumpy wrote: »

Drinking in a pub on the periphery of Dublin CC, and a few auld lads came in selling a newspaper called The Starry Plough. Didn't buy a copy, but had a read of it while waiting for the barman to hurry up.

Is there still a Republican tradition that rejects the idea of the 26 county 'statelet'? And advocates a 32 county socialist republic?

All I'll say is you obviously have no idea what the Old IRA was if that's how you imagine them.

Rumpy Pumpy · 01-09-2017 7:53am

Raymond Shrilling Performance wrote: »

All I'll say is you obviously have no idea what the Old IRA was if that's how you imagine them.

You probably fought alongside Collins in fairness. Famed for your sourness and pettiness.

munsterlegend · 01-09-2017 7:54am

Raymond Shrilling Performance wrote: »

All I'll say is you obviously have no idea what the Old IRA was if that's how you imagine them.

The original Old Ira led by Collins are clearly heroes to most Irish people. Thankfully they against all the odds freed most of this Island of a tyranny that nearly wiped out our country and heritage.

Unfortunately they remained in a certain part of the Island and look at it. A society that has to pull walls between its people.

Answering the question do they still exist? I am sure they do but unlike 1919 they don't have a mandate and most of the injustices have been resolved.

FTA69 · 01-09-2017 8:34am

LordSutch wrote: »

I think the old IRA disbanded in the 1950s.
The Provisional IRA disbanded in the 90s.

What are you on about Sutch?

There was no disbanding of any IRA in the 1950s. After the Civil War the IRA basically continued as a reasonably solid incarnation (bar a few people foraying into organisations such as Saor Uladh, Saor Éire and a few other schisms) until 1969 when the IRA split into the Provisionals (later to become the de facto Irish Republican Army) and the Officials (later to become the Workers Party and then a part of Labour.)

The Provisionals went on ceasefire in 1994, later continued in 1996 and wound up generally around 2007. They still do exist however, but no longer on a military or operational footing.

Chips Lovell · 01-09-2017 8:49am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUXqH1rhHrc

Grayson · 01-09-2017 9:23am

Rumpy Pumpy wrote: »

You probably fought alongside Collins in fairness. Famed for your sourness and pettiness.

My Granddad did. He was in 1916, he was in intelligence with collins during the war of independence and was one of the first 21 officers in the freestate army.

Apparently in the 60's and 70's he would say that the guys up north weren't the IRA. The IRA had been disbanded. Those guys were just "gurriers with guns".

masti123 · 01-09-2017 9:57am

FTA69 wrote: »

What are you on about Sutch?

There was no disbanding of any IRA in the 1950s. After the Civil War the IRA basically continued as a reasonably solid incarnation (bar a few people foraying into organisations such as Saor Uladh, Saor Éire and a few other schisms) until 1969 when the IRA split into the Provisionals (later to become the de facto Irish Republican Army) and the Officials (later to become the Workers Party and then a part of Labour.)

The Provisionals went on ceasefire in 1994, later continued in 1996 and wound up generally around 2007. They still do exist however, but no longer on a military or operational footing.

The Provisionals were the de facto Irish Republican Army after the 1969 for the fact that they were the only army to recognise the Irish Republic. You cannot claim to the the Army of the Irish Republic while not recognising that Republic. It stands to reason.

The same logic would apply for the Continuity movement after the 1986 split.

branie2 · 01-09-2017 10:05am

Grayson wrote: »

My Granddad did. He was in 1916, he was in intelligence with collins during the war of independence and was one of the first 21 officers in the freestate army.

Apparently in the 60's and 70's he would say that the guys up north weren't the IRA. The IRA had been disbanded. Those guys were just "gurriers with guns".

My grandfather was in the IRA and Free State Army as well

Ush1 · 01-09-2017 10:09am

Peoples Front of Judea...

FTA69 · 01-09-2017 10:10am

masti123 wrote: »

The Provisionals were the de facto Irish Republican Army after the 1969 for the fact that they were the only army to recognise the Irish Republic. You cannot claim to the the Army of the Irish Republic while not recognising that Republic. It stands to reason.

The same logic would apply for the Continuity movement after the 1986 split.

Balls. The Continuity IRA were and are a joke with zero tradition of resistance in Ireland and even today are more akin to some sort of bizarre cult than anything else.

branie2 · 01-09-2017 10:10am

We're the Judean People's front!

McMurphy · 01-09-2017 10:13am

UP DA RA

BRITS OUT

TUPAC 4EVA!

masti123 · 01-09-2017 10:21am

FTA69 wrote: »

Balls. The Continuity IRA were and are a joke with zero tradition of resistance in Ireland and even today are more akin to some sort of bizarre cult than anything else.

What logic would support the legitimacy of the Provisional's following their formation whilst discounting the legitimacy of the Continuity movement? The Continuity movement claimed much of the same legitimacy as the Provisionals did initially; continuity of purpose and principle, support of the second Dáil through Gen. Tom Maguire etc etc. What made those markers of legitimacy valid for the Provisionals but not for the Contos?

What exactly makes you feel that said legitimacy should remain with them in retirement? What would make you suggest that they are the 'only one IRA, one Irish Republican Army'? I am confident that you will find no logical rationale to support that opinion here.

Chips Lovell · 01-09-2017 10:27am

There's nothing funnier than various factions of provos arguing over which of them legitimate one.

jimboblep · 01-09-2017 11:51am

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

How many IRA's are there?

Real IRA
Continuity IRA
Old IRA
The IRA
I Can't Believe it's Not the IRA

etc etc...

Splitters

A Little Pony · 01-09-2017 12:01pm

masti123 wrote: »

FTA69 wrote: »

What are you on about Sutch?

There was no disbanding of any IRA in the 1950s. After the Civil War the IRA basically continued as a reasonably solid incarnation (bar a few people foraying into organisations such as Saor Uladh, Saor Éire and a few other schisms) until 1969 when the IRA split into the Provisionals (later to become the de facto Irish Republican Army) and the Officials (later to become the Workers Party and then a part of Labour.)

The Provisionals went on ceasefire in 1994, later continued in 1996 and wound up generally around 2007. They still do exist however, but no longer on a military or operational footing.

The Provisionals were the de facto Irish Republican Army after the 1969 for the fact that they were the only army to recognise the Irish Republic. You cannot claim to the the Army of the Irish Republic while not recognising that Republic. It stands to reason.

The same logic would apply for the Continuity movement after the 1986 split.

The only true Irish Republican Army.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defence_Forces_(Ireland)

masti123 · 01-09-2017 12:04pm

A Little Pony wrote: »

The only true Irish Republican Army.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defence_Forces_(Ireland)

What's the logic in that argument? They were formed in 1922 to overthrow the Irish Republic and destroy the Irish Republican Army, no?

A Little Pony · 01-09-2017 12:07pm

masti123 wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

The only true Irish Republican Army.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defence_Forces_(Ireland)

What's the logic in that argument? They were formed in 1922 to overthrow the Irish Republic and destroy the Irish Republican Army, no?

To defeat terrorists who went against the legitimate state and agreement.

twill · 01-09-2017 1:57pm

A Little Pony wrote: »

To defeat terrorists who went against the legitimate state and agreement.

Common perception, especially as it was roared about by the pro-war crowd, but ultimately not true. The British wanted the treaty through, and quick, and their position from the start was the treaty or war. They got what they wanted, which was both. Most of the IRA, pro- and anti-treaty, never wanted war.

01-09-2017 1:58pm

I've heard of some "old" IRA heads deep further in Connemara.

Grayson · 01-09-2017 2:09pm

twill wrote: »

Common perception, especially as it was roared about by the pro-war crowd, but ultimately not true. The British wanted the treaty through, and quick, and their position from the start was the treaty or war. They got what they wanted, which was both. Most of the IRA, pro- and anti-treaty, never wanted war.

They were already fighting a war.

Míshásta · 01-09-2017 2:15pm

The "Old IRA" used to refer to the pre-Treaty organization. That was how it was referred to by people who had fought at the time. It was an unofficial term of course.

I just don't know what this thread is about.

Dyr · 01-09-2017 2:16pm

A Little Pony wrote: »

To defeat terrorists who went against the legitimate state and agreement.

Much like The Provo's did, The Irish Army spout this sillyidea that they are descended from the War of Independence IRA.

They are of course descended from the National Army, which had more of the British Army in rank and file then the old IRA.

dd972 · 01-09-2017 2:34pm

The PIRA in the North had the means and capacity to wipe out Loyalist sectarian murder gangs so why didn't they do it? Especially between 1988 and 1993 when there were lots of instances of innocent Catholics being killed, they were such an abhorrent and corrupt organisation that I suspect they allowed these murders to continue to increase the Nationalist communities dependency on them. People like Scappaticci and Denis Donaldson sum them up.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer · 01-09-2017 2:37pm

LordSutch wrote: »

I think the old IRA disbanded in the 1950s.

No, it just split into Official and Provisional in the late 60s.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer · 01-09-2017 2:40pm

The claim that the IRA of 1919-1921 was somehow vastly different to the Provos is laughable.

Atoms for Peace · 01-09-2017 2:45pm

A more interesting question would be does the IRB still exist? They seemed to be the ones behind the scenes pulling the strings of the old IRA back in the day and during the civil war the leading members of the free state army, including collins who was president, were members as well.

the_syco · 01-09-2017 2:46pm

dd972 wrote: »

there were lots of instances of innocent Catholics being killed

I'd say PIRA did their share of killing innocent cathollics.

the_syco · 01-09-2017 2:47pm

Atoms for Peace wrote: »

A more interesting question would be does the IRB still exist?

Pretty sure the IRB became the free state army, and the IRA were those that opposed it?

maudgonner · 01-09-2017 2:47pm

I don't know how the Continuity IRA managed to fit in the fighting, in between announcing the programmes on RTÉ?

odyssey06 · 01-09-2017 3:03pm

I think the OP's question is whether there is a republican grouping that does not recognise the 26-county state and is socialist... from what I'm reading so far, the answer is no?

The Continuity IRA does not recognise the 26-county state but from reading of their activities there appears to be no evidence of socialism.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuity_Irish_Republican_Army

So... any more contenders?

munsterlegend · 01-09-2017 3:13pm

Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: »

The claim that the IRA of 1919-1921 was somehow vastly different to the Provos is laughable.

It was the army of the Irish people back in 1919. An election saw Sinn Fein candidates overwhelming returned. The army in 1919 fought the war how it needed to be won. It would have been pretty silly to have direct engagement.

As for the provisional movement it wasn't backed by a mandate from its people or community. One could argue on occasions it did given the election of known activists such as Sands etc but it was a world away from the war of independence IRA but that just is more an indication of the basket case Northern Ireland had become and still is.

DEFTLEFTHAND · 01-09-2017 3:14pm

joeguevara wrote: »

Republicanism is very strange....especially down south....as an ex owner of a bar in Carlow, I was always amazed at who tried to demand do my door....for example, my father is from Donegal and he invited a great band (similar to the Wolfe tones) to sing...three days before a Sinn Fein councillor came in and demanded 10% of the takings as the pub was making profits off the sinn finn struggle...my father asked him was he in castlrea or portlaoise, he stuttered and wasn't long being told to leave...I have never seen as many armchair republicans as I have seen being an owner of a bar...people being associated with gangs, parties and especially people...I love songs and history, and I cannot stand bully's..I especiallly cannot stand people who try and make money off others..

A SF Cllr attempted to shake down your pub?

Christ, the type of people we have serving in public office in this country.

hurler32 · 01-09-2017 3:27pm

Often wonder why people bothered with the 100 year celebrations of 1916.....i'm sure Pearse , Connolly etc wouldnt be too pleased that over a 100 years later we still couldnt manage to get a United Ireland???

A three quarters free Ireland is some fudge for the last 90 years ...why should a person in County Clare live under an Irish Government as opposed to a person in County Tyrone....??

Does the old IRA still exist? (Mod warning in op)

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