Anti-vaxxers

IvyTheTerrific

alaimacerc wrote: »

319 cases of TB in 2016. Public health data for aggressively prejudiced idiocy not generally available.

Wasn't aware of the availability issue. Very concerning.

I thought it was more a location risk issue? Like here in France, the TB vaccine will be given in places which have higher risk factors for TB (new populations with a high rate of TB, for example). My nephews in Paris were vaccinated because they live in a risk area but my children weren't.

Shadow1983

Not sure if this is an appropriate place to post (mods, feel free to move if necessary) but has anyone received the MMR as an adult? I've recently discovered I wasn't vacinnated as a child and I want to get immunized. I visited a GP last week but he refused to do it. I've no health issues or allergies so his unwillingness to do it wasn't based on that. Would anyone have any idea why a doctor would refuse? I've emailed the HSE for clarification but have had no response.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Shadow1983 wrote: »

Not sure if this is an appropriate place to post (mods, feel free to move if necessary) but has anyone received the MMR as an adult? I've recently discovered I wasn't vacinnated as a child and I want to get immunized. I visited a GP last week but he refused to do it. I've no health issues or allergies so his unwillingness to do it wasn't based on that. Would anyone have any idea why a doctor would refuse? I've emailed the HSE for clarification but have had no response.

It's not at all unusual for an adult to receive the MMR and it's recommended that they do.
It's given in two doses to adults.

Queen Cleopatra

I spoke to a doctor today and the subject of vaccines came up V Mackey. He told me that there was no truth or substance behind the narcolepsy claims or any other anti vax claims. Out of curiosity how many on here don't believe in all those narcolepsy claims. I ask because many court cases are won on public support. Thanks or comment if you don't buy it!!! I'll be the first to raise my arm.

banie01

Queen Cleopatra wrote: »

I spoke to a doctor today and the subject of vaccines came up V Mackey. He told me that there was no truth or substance behind the narcolepsy claims or any other anti vax claims. Out of curiosity how many on here don't believe in all those narcolepsy claims. I ask because many court cases are won on public support. Thanks or comment if you don't buy it!!! I'll be the first to raise my arm.

For the claim of Narcolepsy being directly caused by a vaccinento be taken as valid, I'd expect to see a rise in the incidence of narcolepsy in those vaccinated versus the general overall incidence of narcolepsy in the population.
I've yet to see any evidence that this is the case.

Narcolepsy is a condition that quite often doesn't present until puberty/adolescence.
This seems quite coincidentally the age when many of those who have developed the illness are in and around that age bracket.
It really appears to me that the usual onset age of Narcolepsy has overlapped with vaccine schedule.

Without a breakout of the rates of incedence of Narcolepsy in vaccinated versus unvaccinated population.
When illness strikes, those afflicted always look for a cause, but in the absence of reliable data I'd lean heavily on the old adage that correlation is not equal to causation.

VicMackey1

banie01 wrote: »

For the claim of Narcolepsy being directly caused by a vaccinento be taken as valid, I'd expect to see a rise in the incidence of narcolepsy in those vaccinated versus the general overall incidence of narcolepsy in the population.
I've yet to see any evidence that this is the case.

Narcolepsy is a condition that quite often doesn't present until puberty/adolescence.
This seems quite coincidentally the age when many of those who have developed the illness are in and around that age bracket.
It really appears to me that the usual onset age of Narcolepsy has overlapped with vaccine schedule.

Without a breakout of the rates of incedence of Narcolepsy in vaccinated versus unvaccinated population.
When illness strikes, those afflicted always look for a cause, but in the absence of reliable data I'd lean heavily on the old adage that correlation is not equal to causation.

The conclusion from the Final Report of National Narcolepsy Study Steering Committee published by the HPSC. The full report is available on their website.

"Through a retrospective population‐based cohort study, we demonstrated that the increased incidence of narcolepsy in children/adolescents in Ireland from 2009 was associated with vaccination with Pandemrix. All cases who were tested and results available at time of chart retrieval (n=17) occurred in those who are genetically susceptible. The association could not be assessed accurately in adults because of the small number of cases reported. Our results were very similar to the findings reported from Finland and other Scandinavian countries.

Although we cannot exclude any selection or confounding bias which might have overestimated the risk of narcolepsy linked to Pandemrix vaccination, we believe that the association was so high that it is unlikely to be explained by any possible bias. Extensive case finding was undertaken in Ireland over the last 6 months and it unlikely that 33 – 55 cases in the unvaccinated cohort of 5‐19 year olds are awaiting presentation to primary care and or investigation in secondary care.

Further studies are awaited (e.g. the VAESCO study) that will consider possible confounders and facilitate better understanding of the interaction of other infections such as H1N1 with pandemic vaccine."

Also a link from the CDC HERE. There was no increase of narcolepsy noted with the Pandemrix alternatives.

Wheeliebin30

Do we screen people emigrating to Ireland from other countries?

Not really a surprise there is an increase of cases.

VicMackey1

Queen Cleopatra wrote: »

I spoke to a doctor today and the subject of vaccines came up V Mackey. He told me that there was no truth or substance behind the narcolepsy claims or any other anti vax claims. Out of curiosity how many on here don't believe in all those narcolepsy claims. I ask because many court cases are won on public support. Thanks or comment if you don't buy it!!! I'll be the first to raise my arm.

Strange because every doctor that my family has dealt with so far have accepted that the increase was caused by the vaccine. These include a number of specialists, mostly neurologists. One, in particular, has mentioned that he has dealt with a large number of referrals from the Gardasil HPV vaccine. He said that not one of them can be backed up with any tests. These doctors are not anti-vaccine but they do look at all the evidence presented whether it supports or shows a problem with a vaccine.

Edit: Just want to add that the problems with Pandemrix were tiny in the overall scheme of vaccination and should not discourage anyone from having their children fully vaccinated.

Queen Cleopatra

VicMackey1 wrote: »

Strange because every doctor that my family has dealt with so far have accepted that the increase was caused by the vaccine. These include a number of specialists, mostly neurologists. One, in particular, has mentioned that he has dealt with a large number of referrals from the Gardasil HPV vaccine. He said that not one of them can be backed up with any tests. These doctors are not anti-vaccine but they do look at all the evidence presented whether it supports or shows a problem with a vaccine.

Edit: Just want to add that the problems with Pandemrix were tiny in the overall scheme of vaccination and should not discourage anyone from having their children fully vaccinated.

I've spoke to many specialists too, all have said it's a bogus claim. They said that it is most likely that these aren't even genuine narcolepsy and that hormones at that age can make children very lazy. Coincidence!

rainbow kirby

kylith wrote: »

I was recommended not to get the BCG for my soon-to-be-born child the other day, on the basis that 'only prostitutes get that disease', which would be TB.

A friend of my family contracted TB about 15 years ago. They spent months in hospital and nearly died. As I informed the colleague: Baby will be getting all the vaccines, thank you very much.

I had my kids in an inner London borough with a high risk of TB - they have both had BCG, the younger one (7 months old) had an unlicensed version that the NHS offered only to families in high risk areas.

skepticalme

Shadow1983 wrote: »

Not sure if this is an appropriate place to post (mods, feel free to move if necessary) but has anyone received the MMR as an adult? I've recently discovered I wasn't vacinnated as a child and I want to get immunized. I visited a GP last week but he refused to do it. I've no health issues or allergies so his unwillingness to do it wasn't based on that. Would anyone have any idea why a doctor would refuse? I've emailed the HSE for clarification but have had no response.

Do you have a young baby? Doctor might be worried about shedding as MMR is a live vaccine.

Queen Cleopatra

VicMackey1 wrote: »

Strange because every doctor that my family has dealt with so far have accepted that the increase was caused by the vaccine. These include a number of specialists, mostly neurologists. One, in particular, has mentioned that he has dealt with a large number of referrals from the Gardasil HPV vaccine. He said that not one of them can be backed up with any tests. These doctors are not anti-vaccine but they do look at all the evidence presented whether it supports or shows a problem with a vaccine.

Edit: Just want to add that the problems with Pandemrix were tiny in the overall scheme of vaccination and should not discourage anyone from having their children fully vaccinated.

I knew it was just a matter of time before you brought the HPv vaccine into this. Next you will be talking about autism and mmr. One that I spoke to was a neurologist and another dealt exclusively with narcolepsy and he said there definitely was no link to the vaccine. Shout out to banie01, srameen, and blanch152. You have spines, not like the rest that read but didn't thank.

Cabaal

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Do we screen people emigrating to Ireland from other countries?

Not really a surprise there is an increase of cases.

All it takes is a few anti-vax people coming from the USA and we have outbreaks

Cabaal

Cabaal wrote: »

All it takes is a few anti-vax people coming from the USA and we have outbreaks

We have refugees coming into Europe from areas that have been war-torn for years. I doubt every kid has their vaccinations in order.

The EU's increasing rates of measles etc. are more likely to come from that, not some spread of the anti-vaxx nonsense.

Cabaal

Deleted User wrote: »

We have refugees coming into Europe from areas that have been war-torn for years. I doubt every kid has their vaccinations in order.

The EU's increasing rates of measles etc. are more likely to come from that, not some spread of the anti-vaxx nonsense.

You wouldn't have the outbreaks if people are vaccinating their kids, they are not due to the spread of anti-vax nonsense.

So anti vax is a factor in this, the initial introduction of measles might not be caused by anti-vax. But the spreading of it most certainly is.

We live in a connected world, refugees or not the anti-vax people are likely to result in bigger outbreaks because they are creating bigger groups of none vaccinated people.

Cabaal

Cabaal wrote: »

You wouldn't have the outbreaks if people are vaccinating their kids, they are not due to the spread of anti-vax nonsense.

So anti vax is a factor in this, the initial introduction of measles might not be caused by anti-vax. But the spreading of it most certainly is.

We live in a connected world, refugees or not the anti-vax people are likely to result in bigger outbreaks because they are creating bigger groups of none vaccinated people.

Being vaccinated doesn't guarantee that you won't get the disease. You can still get the measles even if you're vaccinated. Herd immunity is what's important and that starts to fail if the number of vaccinated drops under something like 90%.

In areas with lots of refugees with incomplete vaccinations, this can happen more easily.

Igotadose

Deleted User wrote: »

.

In areas with lots of refugees with incomplete vaccinations, this can happen more easily.

But, anti-vaxxers like snake-oil Wakefield actively help spread measles in Minnesota: https://www.vox.com/2017/5/8/15577316/minnesota-measles-outbreak-explained

(many other better articles about this, the one I quoted isn't behind a paywall)

VicMackey1

Dogs or cats cant be moved between countries without vaccinations up to date. The same rules should apply to people

Shadow1983

Maci Whining Pianist wrote:

It's not at all unusual for an adult to receive the MMR and it's recommended that they do. It's given in two doses to adults.

Thanks Maci Whining Pianist, that's what I was trying to tell the doctor but he sat Googling reasons why I shouldn't instead.

skepticalme wrote:

Do you have a young baby? Doctor might be worried about shedding as MMR is a live vaccine.

No, I don't have any children.

batgoat

Igotadose wrote: »

Deleted User wrote: »

.

In areas with lots of refugees with incomplete vaccinations, this can happen more easily.

But, anti-vaxxers like snake-oil Wakefield actively help spread measles in Minnesota: https://www.vox.com/2017/5/8/15577316/minnesota-measles-outbreak-explained

(many other better articles about this, the one I quoted isn't behind a paywall)

Yep the return of measles in the US was entirely related to US citizens choosing not to get vaccines in bulk.

Igotadose

Shadow1983 wrote: »

Thanks Srameen, that's what I was trying to tell the doctor but he sat Googling reasons why I shouldn't instead.

O.K. if it were me, the gloves would be coming off at this. First off, find another Dr.. Then, complain to the medical board. A Dr. sitting their googling is a pretty scary image imo. You mean, he or she doesn't *know* but is dispensing advice as if they're an authority?!

As I've posted in this thread previously, I'm nearly 60 and get an MMR regularly. I've never had mumps nor do I want them. And, I've taken to asking parents with children I associate with whether they've had the MMR (both parents and kids), and uninvite/disassociate if not. The risk is too high.

Now, if you've got some condition that in fact prevents you from being vaccinated, you need to talk with a specialist (again, not this quack you're dealing with.) However, if you don't, please get the MMR.

VicMackey1

Queen Cleopatra wrote: »

I knew it was just a matter of time before you brought the HPv vaccine into this. Next you will be talking about autism and mmr. One that I spoke to was a neurologist and another dealt exclusively with narcolepsy and he said there definitely was no link to the vaccine. Shout out to banie01, srameen, and blanch152. You have spines, not like the rest that read but didn't thank.

Did you read my post that you quoted? I will put it in very simple language that I hope you can understand. I fully support the HPV vaccine. I want to see all boys and girls receive that vaccine. There will be women dying in 20 years time that will wish that their parents had more cop on and didn't refuse the vaccine for them.

I don't have much to say about autism and the MMR. It has been done to death. If someone still buys into Wakefields lies then they are just gullible idiots. Unfortunately, it is these gullible idiots children that will suffer and children that cant receive the MMR for medical reasons.

Your imaginary specialists really need to have a scan through good medical sites like the Mayo Clinic. They would learn that narcolepsy can be tested for. Polysomnography test cant be fooled by just closing your eyes and pretending to sleep. The lumbar puncture test for the hypocretin levels cant be fooled either.

You are actually very similar to the hardcore anti-vaxxer. Won't listen to reason or any evidence presented. The difference though is that the anti-vaxxer is a very dangerous person.

Can you tell us who the specialist that deals exclusively with narcolepsy is? He/She must have a lot of free time!

rameire

VicMackey1 wrote: »

Can you tell us who the specialist that deals exclusively with narcolepsy is? He/She must have a lot of free time!

I'd say he sleeps on the job a lot.

Hotblack Desiato

Shadow1983 wrote: »

Not sure if this is an appropriate place to post (mods, feel free to move if necessary) but has anyone received the MMR as an adult? I've recently discovered I wasn't vacinnated as a child and I want to get immunized. I visited a GP last week but he refused to do it. I've no health issues or allergies so his unwillingness to do it wasn't based on that. Would anyone have any idea why a doctor would refuse? I've emailed the HSE for clarification but have had no response.

If it's possible that you may become pregnant, you really should get immunised for rubella asap.

Queen Cleopatra

VicMackey1 wrote: »

The conclusion from the Final Report of National Narcolepsy Study Steering Committee published by the HPSC. The full report is available on their website.

"Through a retrospective population‐based cohort study, we demonstrated that the increased incidence of narcolepsy in children/adolescents in Ireland from 2009 was associated with vaccination with Pandemrix. All cases who were tested and results available at time of chart retrieval (n=17) occurred in those who are genetically susceptible. The association could not be assessed accurately in adults because of the small number of cases reported. Our results were very similar to the findings reported from Finland and other Scandinavian countries.

Although we cannot exclude any selection or confounding bias which might have overestimated the risk of narcolepsy linked to Pandemrix vaccination, we believe that the association was so high that it is unlikely to be explained by any possible bias. Extensive case finding was undertaken in Ireland over the last 6 months and it unlikely that 33 – 55 cases in the unvaccinated cohort of 5‐19 year olds are awaiting presentation to primary care and or investigation in secondary care.

Further studies are awaited (e.g. the VAESCO study) that will consider possible confounders and facilitate better understanding of the interaction of other infections such as H1N1 with pandemic vaccine."

Also a link from the CDC HERE. There was no increase of narcolepsy noted with the Pandemrix alternatives.

I've searched for that report on the HSE and it doesn't exist!!!! Did you dream it up yourself? As for the CDC link if you read 3 paragraph down it clearly states that the CDC reviewed data and found no indication of any association between the vaccine and narcolepsy. BOOM!!! Checkmate

VicMackey1

Queen Cleopatra wrote: »

I've searched for that report on the HSE and it doesn't exist!!!! Did you dream it up yourself? As for the CDC link if you read 3 paragraph down it clearly states that the CDC reviewed data and found no indication of any association between the vaccine and narcolepsy. BOOM!!! Checkmate

SIGH! Excuse me for a minute or two, while I bang my head off the nearest wall!

ohnonotgmail

Queen Cleopatra wrote: »

I've searched for that report on the HSE and it doesn't exist!!!! Did you dream it up yourself? As for the CDC link if you read 3 paragraph down it clearly states that the CDC reviewed data and found no indication of any association between the vaccine and narcolepsy. BOOM!!! Checkmate

the link you are looking for is here https://health.gov.ie/blog/publications/final-report-of-the-national-narcolepsy-study-steering-committee-2/

PlaneSpeeking

Queen Cleopatra wrote: »

I've searched for that report on the HSE and it doesn't exist!!!! Did you dream it up yourself? As for the CDC link if you read 3 paragraph down it clearly states that the CDC reviewed data and found no indication of any association between the vaccine and narcolepsy. BOOM!!! Checkmate

Please don't have children, or if you have them - keep them away from other people's.

Measles is a killer.

Seriously, educate yourself instead of making pithy "checkmate" digs.

kunst nugget

Queen Cleopatra wrote: »

I've searched for that report on the HSE and it doesn't exist!!!! Did you dream it up yourself? As for the CDC link if you read 3 paragraph down it clearly states that the CDC reviewed data and found no indication of any association between the vaccine and narcolepsy. BOOM!!! Checkmate

No association with the non-Pandemrix Influenza Vaccine and narcolepsy...

The study is working off an already established connection between Pandemrix and narcolepsy.