General gaming discussion

gizmo

Azza wrote: »

WTF is Shank?

Next you'll be asking us what Mark of the Ninja is.

Please don't ask what Mark of the Ninja is.

super_furry

gizmo wrote: »

Please don't ask what Mark of the Ninja is.

Isn't he Darren of the Ninja's brother?

Gamer Bhoy 89

gizmo wrote: »

Next you'll be asking us what Mark of the Ninja is.

Please don't ask what Mark of the Ninja is.

I thought I was the weird one that heard of/played Shank back in the day :pac: Back then I played pretty much anything that came out on XBLA, that was one I thoroughly enjoyed (but never beat).

wotzgoingon

Gamer Bhoy 89 wrote: »

one I thoroughly enjoyed (but never beat).

It obviously gets much harder than what that video you posted made it look like.

Gamer Bhoy 89

wotzgoingon wrote: »

It obviously gets much harder than what that video you posted made it look like.

Of course. That was just the 1st trailer for the game.

Penn

McFly85 wrote: »

MGS3 is by far the best. Much better stealth gameplay than any that came before it, one of the best boss fights in gaming history and the story being straightforward for Kojima and pretty engaging. Top class theme song too

The others I would rank 1, Revengeance(yes I’m including it), Peace Walker,4,5

Although I’m not sure I’m being fair to 5, Im just a few hours in and struggling to warm to it. The stealth is good but it doesn’t feel like a Metal Gear game.

MGS3 is still my favourite game of all time.

MGS5 was a great game. The gameplay itself was fantastic. The story was still enjoyable, even though there were obviously significant parts missing, including including full ending. The biggest issue as someone else mentioned was just the framing of a lot of it, with the repeated credits, and some repetitive missions padding it out.

Gamer Bhoy 89

Penn wrote: »

MGS3 is still my favourite game of all time.

MGS5 was a great game. The gameplay itself was fantastic. The story was still enjoyable, even though there were obviously significant parts missing, including including full ending. The biggest issue as someone else mentioned was just the framing of a lot of it, with the repeated credits, and some repetitive missions padding it out.

Chapter 2 of that game is absolute nonsense, the game is glorious up until that point, then it all just goes downhill.

I got MGS3 when it came out and it was around the time my interest in gaming was waning big time and never finished it.

Played it again when the HD collection came out and it had the same effect the first game had on me. I think I was only a few hours from finishing it the first time out when I gave up.

One of the coolest cutscenes in a Kojima game was this one from 5

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nO8oPH__Ww

johnny_ultimate

I know the game as a whole is a bit of an unholy mess, but I'll always think of the tanker section of MGS2 as my favourite MGS. Perhaps the greatest gaming demo of them all before the full release dropped, and an immensely satisfying space to explore. I played it at an age that it seemed like a tremendous leap over what I'd played before in terms of production quality - that intense rain and melodramatic Hollywood action score.

Having only gotten around to MGS3 when Subsistence came out, there was no doubt it was a fantastic evolution and unquestionably better than its predecessor on the whole. Peace Walker was a lot of fun, and MGS5 the best realisation of the experience of 'playing' MGS. But there's something about that tanker that is quintessentially MGS to me in a way that nothing else has been - the rest of the bloody game didn't even live up to it :pac:. And I've been *very* tempted to pick up that GOG release of MGS2 again just to give that rainy deck another visit...

My god I think I burned out that demo disc, unreal how much I got out of it then the game comes out and yeah Raiden :mad:

Bought ZOE just for that and ended up liking ZOE luckily.

pixelburp

gizmo wrote: »

Next you'll be asking us what Mark of the Ninja is.

Please don't ask what Mark of the Ninja is.

God I'd love a sequel to Mark of the Ninja. such a quality game. Fantastic stealth mechanics perfectly executed; there was one small piece of DLC but didn't amount to much TBH.

Retr0gamer

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

I swear there are maybe like five particular games when they’re mentioned in this forum, some kind of very loud alarm system goes off in your home and you rush to the keyboard

I'm not going to lie, MGS4 triggers me. I just can't stand what an unholy mess it is and just how little fun it was but what annoys me the most was how it's held up as some amazing game because PS3 owners at the time were desperate for anything good to come out as the 360 was trouncing the PS3. I still remember the excitement being slowly crushed and then admitting to myself it was kind of cap when my friend asked how amazing was it while I was in a boring on the rails motorcycle chase.

Recently watched the AGDQ run around christmas to see if it was just me, and it didn't convince me I was wrong.

Retr0gamer

Always thought Shank was pretty naff. Heard Shank 2 was better but the first game put me right off it because I just didn't like the first one.

Was surprised by Mark of the Ninja as didn't think that developer could make a game as good as that after shank. It's nice to be wrong sometimes.

Greyfox

MGS1 was easily the best of the series, and still one of the best games ever made. The story, characters, boss fights and music were absolutely amazing. When it was released there really was nothing else like it.

2 was ok but i was never able to get past playing as Raiden instead of Snake. 3 was brilliant, great story and quite a moving ending. 4 was a pile of sh*te, it was essentially a game with irritating ad breaks every few minutes and some of the ads went on for ages.

MGS5 is very different to the rest of the series, the story was terrible but it was a lot of fun to dip in and out of, its a shame theres no proper ending

Gamer Bhoy 89

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Always thought Shank was pretty naff. Heard Shank 2 was better but the first game put me right off it because I just didn't like the first one.

Was surprised by Mark of the Ninja as didn't think that developer could make a game as good as that after shank. It's nice to be wrong sometimes.

I don't think Shank is that bad. I wouldn't consider it anywhere near the best of its genre I've played but it's fun enough. I'm not the biggest fan of the animation now that I've played it again. It has that stretchy hand-drawn style that seems cheaply done, though I do think the art style is quite nice. I'm a fan of cartoon-aesthetics in games if it's done right. When watching them move though, it's outdated. Ever seen The Slim Shady Show? The animation on that is what it reminds me of (obviously not as bad, but)



I am a fan of button-mashing slashy games. I'm a sucker for 'em. Shank suits me down to the ground at its surface, if that makes sense.

Retr0gamer

It's not bad, just not amazing either. Just found it too bland and button mashy and if I wanted to play a good one I've dozens of games like the ninja Gaiden NES games that I've not played at are way better. I might give the sequel a go at some point because mark of the ninja was so good.

Penn

Greyfox wrote: »

MGS1 was easily the best of the series, and still one of the best games ever made. The story, characters, boss fights and music were absolutely amazing. When it was released there really was nothing else like it.

2 was ok but i was never able to get past playing as Raiden instead of Snake. 3 was brilliant, great story and quite a moving ending. 4 was a pile of sh*te, it was essentially a game with irritating ad breaks every few minutes and some of the ads went on for ages.

MGS5 is very different to the rest of the series, the story was terrible but it was a lot of fun to dip in and out of, its a shame theres no proper ending

I did like some parts of MGS4. The first two acts (where you actually play the game) were pretty great. The return to Shadow Moses was very well done imo. And as somewhat ridiculous as the final boss fight was, I really enjoyed it. Really felt like a great culmination of everything that came before for those who'd been invested in the series.

But definitely a lot of Kojima's worst traits needed to be reigned in. Cutscenes went on far too long (the ending is like 90 minutes or so) and killed the momentum even of the best chapters in the game. Chapter 3 should have been completely reworked, it was boring as f*ck. Chapter 5 had some good gameplay moments but really felt like a drag at that stage. The boss fights were also very bland compared to what Kojima produced before.

I enjoyed the game a lot, but by far the weakest one.

Retr0gamer

I don't even think that the return to shadow moses and the final fight were even that good. They just coasted on nostalgia that I felt wasn't earned. Take away the nostalgia from shadow moses and you are left with one of the most frustrating areas of the game where you are constantly being annoyed by pain in the arse robots, a frustrating sniper boss fight that relied on unpredictable respawning enemies, a on the rails section and a metal gear boss fight that should have been good but was dull and the scale felt all wrong, like two toys fighting each other.

As for the final fight is was a straight up boring fist fight with no mechanics that just played the old theme tunes to make it feel like epic. Manipulative ****e. As a follow up to the boss fight from MGS3, a brilliantly designed fight that tested you on everything you had learned in the game up to that point, it as a damp squib.

Even the early sections weren't that good. There's one or two early sections with some cheeky optional paths that are fun to find but it's the kind of stuff that was all over the level design of the previous games, and yet they felt like they gave the player far more options to mess around with.

Anyway, let's see how many people agree with me on this hot take:

Secret best Metal Gear Solid game: Metal Gear Solid Ghost Babel on the Gameboy Colour.

I'm not even joking, apart from a stupid early puzzle involving coloured cardboard boxes to show off the amazing new feature of colour on a gameboy it's arguably the best of the metal gear games.

pixelburp

I wish Kojima would just go and make the movie he clearly, obviously wants to make instead of cramming his games with these crazy-long cut scenes; maybe it's a comfort zone thing. That if he actually went and gave directing a try, he could fail, or worse, be shown as incompetent in trying to bring his dream to fruition. Better the devil you know 'n all that. Same comment for David Cage, though at least Kojima actually tries to craft playable, interesting games on occasion; Cage really is trying to make a movie-game hybrid.

johnny_ultimate

Ah Kojima is on a totally different level to Cage. They’re both ****e writers, but Kojima is a brilliant game designer at the core whereas Cage’s games rely entirely on the ****e writing.

MGS4 was obviously a low point for Kojima in terms of overdoing the cutscenes at the expense of game, but his subsequent games have made a lot of strides in the right direction. I haven’t finished Death Stranding, but I played a fair chunk of it, and it’s easily one of the most fascinating open world games yet made - it’s an absolute treat to hike through those weird, desolate landscapes. Its writing may be dodgy as all hell at times, but to see such a mad, idiosyncratic and clever game on such a scale is some feat.

Kojima’s best games offer some of the cleverest design the medium has to offer. Cage’s best games are bad interactive movies.

pixelburp

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

Ah Kojima is on a totally different level to Cage. They’re both ****e writers, but Kojima is a brilliant game designer at the core whereas Cage’s games rely entirely on the ****e writing.

MGS4 was obviously a low point for Kojima in terms of overdoing the cutscenes at the expense of game, but his subsequent games have made a lot of strides in the right direction. I haven’t finished Death Stranding, but I played a fair chunk of it, and it’s easily one of the most fascinating open world games yet made - it’s an absolute treat to hike through those weird, desolate landscapes. Its writing may be dodgy as all hell at times, but to see such a mad, idiosyncratic and clever game on such a scale is some feat.

Kojima’s best games offer some of the cleverest design the medium has to offer. Cage’s best games are bad interactive movies.

That's true: I know Death Stranding's game mechanics are controversial, but I respect Kojima at least trying to make a game out of what had become a nothing part of Open World design - the actual traversal from A to B. Fast travel had kinda sucked the joy out of the genre. Haven't had a chance to play the game myself, but it looks ... maybe not fun. But engaging.

I'll say one thing for Cage: the first third-to-half of Fahrenheit was excellent; yes, it was just a movie stuffed with (now mostly extinct) QTEs, but the story was decent, and the premise of playing a serial killer trying to figure out the mystery allowed for natural mechanics in-game. Then the story went utterly, stupidly crazy in all the worst ways.

YoshiSays

Was thinking the Astray Maze in Control was inventive and then I look at how incredibly inventive Super Mario Galaxy, one and two are, and how incredibly controllable Mario is in 3D space. Still looks brilliant, on a Wii too!

Ok, back to work ...

Gamer Bhoy 89

The thing that bugs me about the Death Stranding "controversy" and the haters surrounding it, is it was purely obvious Kojima made that game for him - he basically just said "look what I'm making" and everyone got tick over it once it came out.

"this isn't the game I wanted". It wasn't for you to begin with. Play it if you want.

For some reason, everyone wanted a game LIKE Metal Gear Solid, but NOT Metal Gear Solid. At no point did Kojima lure anyone astray, nor did he "gotcha!" anyone. That's why I love that game. I went into it blind as a bat - no context - nothing. I did not have a single expectation at all. All I had hope for was if its story was gonna grab me, because that's what his games do, and it did.

And anyone who likes the game will love it, but if you're slightly off at any point, you're gonna hate it. It was a game made for him. And that's something to admire I believe. Other developers turn into robots when it comes to making games (well AAA devs, at least): [GENRE], [PLAYER COUNT], [GIMMICK].

Kojima made the game he wanted to make, and that's all there is to it.

pixelburp

Was there ever any leak or information revealed about what the DelToro / Kojima Silent Hill(s) was going to look like? IIRC we only ever got that teaser trailer with Norman Reedus right?

Gamer Bhoy 89

pixelburp wrote: »

Was there ever any leak or information revealed about what the DelToro / Kojima Silent Hill(s) was going to look like? IIRC we only ever got that teaser trailer with Norman Reedus right?

I think the closest we got to that was P.T.

Kiith

pixelburp wrote: »

I'll say one thing for Cage: the first third-to-half of Fahrenheit was excellent; yes, it was just a movie stuffed with (now mostly extinct) QTEs, but the story was decent, and the premise of playing a serial killer trying to figure out the mystery allowed for natural mechanics in-game. Then the story went utterly, stupidly crazy in all the worst ways.

I don't know that i've ever played a game that went from a kind of creepy and interesting supernatural thriller, to DBZ/giant bug battles/Neo vs Smyth type thing so quickly. Utterly bonkers final third of a game.

Retr0gamer

David Cage, like Kojima, has amazing ideas but ****s up the execution and both are terrible writers. Kojima at least is a good game designer unlike David Cage, or at least is a good enough producer to surround himself with good designers.

Mark Hamill

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Anyway, let's see how many people agree with me on this hot take:

Secret best Metal Gear Solid game: Metal Gear Solid Ghost Babel on the Gameboy Colour.

The real secret best MGS game is Metal Gear Rising Revengeance. Brilliant gameplay and while the cutscenes are as bonkers as in the other MGS games, they don't go on for hours, so you can get back into the game quickly.

Retr0gamer

Mark Hamill wrote: »

The real secret best MGS game is Metal Gear Rising Revengeance. Brilliant gameplay and while the cutscenes are as bonkers as in the other MGS games, they don't go on for hours, so you can get back into the game quickly.

I'm not even going to try and argue with you because there is absolutely nothing wrong with anything you say.

The Raging Bile Duct

I played both Heavy Rain and Beyond Two Souls. I would have been better off repeatedly punching myself in the balls. They're terrible.