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US Navy crash off Singapore leaves 10 Missing

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    #62
    VinLieger
    Registered Users Posts: 17,739 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    grahambo wrote: »
    And the Sea is a big place, It just seems very suspicious to me.

    The sea isnt so big a place when it takes a boat several miles to come to a full stop or perform any kind of maneuver. Even the destroyers in the 2 most recent incidents which are relatively small compared to the massive aircraft carriers or tankers they still cant exactly spin around on a penny.

    Granted things like that should be planned well in advance for that reason to avoid having to do them last minute and account for other ships in the area but from all accounts ive read of people who say they were previously stationed with the 7th fleet it seems like there's just boat loads of incompetence at play here rather than foul intentions.


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    #63
    Beta Ray Bill
    Registered Users Posts: 3,548 ✭✭✭Beta Ray Bill


    The_Valeyard wrote: »
    This seems to happen often enough.

    Didnt a Russian surveillance ship crash into a sheep transport vessel a couple of months ago?


    Then again, whats that old phrase?

    one's an incident,
    two's a coincidence,
    three's a pattern,
    Four is enemy action

    Never a truer word spoken!

    VinLieger wrote: »
    The sea isnt so big a place when it takes a boat several miles to come to a full stop or perform any kind of maneuver.

    Agreed,

    But Naval vessels, (even the big Ticonderoga-class cruisers) are capable of performing rapid maneuvers:

    1920px-CG-57_emergency_breakaway.jpg

    They could have easily move out of the way or not gotten in the way given that they too know that it takes a large commercial boat several miles to come to a full stop
    VinLieger wrote: »
    Granted things like that should be planned well in advance for that reason to avoid having to do them last minute and account for other ships in the area but from all accounts ive read of people who say they were previously stationed with the 7th fleet it seems like there's just boat loads of incompetence at play here rather than foul intentions.

    Perhaps you're correct. But why all of a sudden?
    That's what gets me.


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    #64
    VinLieger
    Registered Users Posts: 17,739 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    grahambo wrote: »
    Never a truer word spoken!

    Yeah if your prone to conspiracy theories.

    Occams Razor is far more relevant to this


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    #65
    VinLieger
    Registered Users Posts: 17,739 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    grahambo wrote: »
    Perhaps you're correct. But why all of a sudden?
    That's what gets me.

    Again im going off accounts of whats going on in the 7th fleet that I read on reddit so take of it what you will but morale is apparently through the floor and many people were surprised its taken this long to come to a head

    Also refferring to the previous 2 incidents, for any boat to perform such a maneuveur as in the picture they need to be on a certain state of alert with all hands available, the fitzgerald by all accounts was simply unaware of the proximity of the other vessel, the McCain apparently lost steering for a period up until the crash so neither boat was in a position to make such a menauveur.

    Ive heard theories about the Fitzgerald that whoever was on watch was possibly too afraid/incompetant to wake up their superior when they realised their mistake to trigger such a menauver and hoped they would make it across the bow of the tanker.


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    #66
    Beta Ray Bill
    Registered Users Posts: 3,548 ✭✭✭Beta Ray Bill


    VinLieger wrote: »
    morale is apparently through the floor and many people were surprised its taken this long to come to a head

    If that's the case, they are in no position to demand anything of China and NK

    Was any reason stated as to why Morale was so low?

    Based on what you said, a lot of it sounds like utter incompetence or lack of leadership (Or both)


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    #67
    VinLieger
    Registered Users Posts: 17,739 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    grahambo wrote: »
    If that's the case, they are in no position to demand anything of China and NK

    Was any reason stated as to why Morale was so low?

    Based on what you said, a lot of it sounds like utter incompetence or lack of leadership (Or both)

    Im trying to find the thread again cus it was super interesting, but the gist was theres basically little to no breaks or off time for many of the personnel and when you do get them your generally confined to the base cus of constant alert lockdowns happening on them, also the bases themselves arent exactly in the best of conditions and when on ship for in some cases 9-10 months they are living on top of each other for months with zero privacy.


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    #68
    VinLieger
    Registered Users Posts: 17,739 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    Heres a couple of interesting accounts

    https://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/6uz5wo/guidedmissile_destroyer_uss_john_s_mccain_ddg_56/dlx25j7/

    https://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/6uz5wo/guidedmissile_destroyer_uss_john_s_mccain_ddg_56/dlwsod8/


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    #69
    Beta Ray Bill
    Registered Users Posts: 3,548 ✭✭✭Beta Ray Bill


    VinLieger wrote: »
    Heres a couple of interesting accounts

    https://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/6uz5wo/guidedmissile_destroyer_uss_john_s_mccain_ddg_56/dlx25j7/

    https://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/6uz5wo/guidedmissile_destroyer_uss_john_s_mccain_ddg_56/dlwsod8/

    Jesus....
    Grim reading...


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    #70
    CruelCoin
    Registered Users Posts: 4,468 ✭✭✭CruelCoin


    Gatling wrote: »
    That's a bit mad actually 2 vessels in a few weeks badly damaged ,

    4th one this year.

    There is a general maritime rule of giving way to shipping on the starboard side.

    I'm going to put it out there and say that these crashes are caused by arrogant military vessels going "outta mah way ah gots me ma gunz"


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    #71
    ThisRegard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,834 ✭✭✭✭ThisRegard


    CruelCoin wrote: »
    4th one this year.

    There is a general maritime rule of giving way to shipping on the starboard side.

    I'm going to put it out there and say that these crashes are caused by arrogant military vessels going "outta mah way ah gots me ma gunz"

    I thought I had read that you give way to the bigger vessel? But then again I am a land lubber.


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    #72
    CruelCoin
    Registered Users Posts: 4,468 ✭✭✭CruelCoin


    grahambo wrote: »
    Jesus....
    Grim reading...

    Not really that grim or that harsh.

    Enlisted personal being asked to stop boozing post midnight, with work the next day?
    Think of it, these people are in charge of guns. It's a good thing to have them sober!!


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    #73
    CruelCoin
    Registered Users Posts: 4,468 ✭✭✭CruelCoin


    ThisRegard wrote: »
    I thought I had read that you give way to the bigger vessel? But then again I am a land lubber.

    To be fair i haven't the foggiest idea what side starboard is....

    Isn't "might is right" how it works on Indian roads?


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    #74
    Are Am Eye
    Registered Users Posts: 2,166 ✭✭✭Are Am Eye


    CruelCoin wrote: »
    I'm going to put it out there and say that these crashes are caused by arrogant military vessels going "outta mah way ah gots me ma gunz"

    I bet you're basing that on the old lighthouse joke/urban myth.:P

    With the incredible technology used now I wonder do people just neglect to use their eyes. Some of these tankers are so big they may be mistaken for weather fronts.


    bty starboard is right, port is left.


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    #75
    Wossack
    Registered Users Posts: 7,002 ✭✭✭Wossack


    that threads a good read, gave a lot of insight into the timing (end of a watch shift), and the scenario (morale, how effing busy the place is etc)

    Found this pic from this chain of particular interest. A screenshot from sort-of the shipping equivalent of skyscanner, showing activity in the area at the time of the incident


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    #76
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,211 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    CruelCoin wrote: »
    4th one this year.

    There is a general maritime rule of giving way to shipping on the starboard side.

    I'm going to put it out there and say that these crashes are caused by arrogant military vessels going "outta mah way ah gots me ma gunz"
    ThisRegard wrote: »
    I thought I had read that you give way to the bigger vessel? But then again I am a land lubber.

    in both of the recent incidents the us navy ship was the stand off vessel and should have maneuvered to avoid the collision.


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    #77
    CruelCoin
    Registered Users Posts: 4,468 ✭✭✭CruelCoin


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    in both of the recent incidents the us navy ship was the stand off vessel and should have maneuvered to avoid the collision.

    "Stand off"?


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    #78
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,211 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    CruelCoin wrote: »
    "Stand off"?


    they were the ship with the responsibility to maneuver to avoid a collision.


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    #79
    Manic Moran
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,256 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    Skylinehead wrote: »
    That's a bit vague. All I see that he did was convene a Court of Inquiry, which isn't exactly hiding the fact? Also, how is that treason?

    You should ask Americans if they consider the McCains (the ship is also named after his father) traitors. I don't think your view will be very well received.

    She's named after Admiral McCain of the WW2 era (As was the Mitscher Class destroyer), as well as Admiral McCain of the 1970s, his father and grandfather. The current Senator does not have a ship named after him, though I have no doubt that the next USS John S. McCain will be named for all three of them.


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    #80
    Skylinehead
    Registered Users Posts: 11,690 ✭✭✭✭Skylinehead


    Manic Moran wrote: »
    She's named after Admiral McCain of the WW2 era (As was the Mitscher Class destroyer), as well as Admiral McCain of the 1970s, his father and grandfather. The current Senator does not have a ship named after him, though I have no doubt that the next USS John S. McCain will be named for all three of them.

    Yeah I was aware, I think it was the second McCain that was involved in the Liberty incident.

    Some family though! I believe the first one was involved in Halseys wild goose chase that led to the Taffy 3 encounter, if I recall correctly.


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    #81
    Cheerful Spring
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    grahambo wrote: »
    So news broke there last week that the USS John S McCain was involved in a collision with a merchant ship. 10 Sailors have are missing.

    This is the 4th incident this year (According to RTE news) involving the US Navy ships colliding with Civilian shipping traffic.

    https://www.rte.ie/news/2017/0823/899390-us-navy/

    USS Fitzgerald, almost sank off the coast of Japan after colliding with a Philippine container ship on 17 June
    USS Antietam ran aground near Yosuka, Japan
    USS Champlain collided with a South Korean fishing vessel in May

    And now the US Navy have relieved the Admiral in charge of the 7th Fleet. (Joseph Aucoin)

    The US claim they are "helping to protect freedom of navigation" in the Area.

    However to me it looks more like that US is bullying/harassing Civilian traffic in the area.
    OR
    Something else it going on, It's to coincidental.

    This isn't happening anywhere else in the world, so why is it happening here all of a sudden?
    Is this to do with NK or China's claim on the entire South China Sea?

    You are right suspicious. There is a possibility the ships have Faulty equipment ( the steering broke) and the personnel onboard the ship could not control the ship to avoid collision? Investigation of the steering tech and company who made the tech is the second step i guess?. There is also a possibility of sabotage and hacking and these incidents are happening in waters around Asia.


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