US Navy crash off Singapore leaves 10 Missing

Alun · 23-08-2017 12:16pm

In contrast to commercial tankers, naval ships aren't usually short on power and are quite manoeuvrable, even the larger ones, so I'd have thought even if the other ship was playing silly buggers taking evasive action wouldn't be too difficult. Assuming everyone's doing their job properly, of course.

VinLieger · 23-08-2017 12:17pm

Read a thread on reddit when the most recent one happened the other day, by all accounts the 7th Fleet which is the one operating in this part of Asia and the one all these ships are a part of is in an absolute shambles operationally and morale wise.

Kimbot · 23-08-2017 12:18pm

MOD Threads merged.

Are Am Eye · 23-08-2017 12:22pm

grahambo wrote: »

Agreed

Bit the South China Sea is one of the busiest shipping areas in the world.
Why is no one else colliding?

Well if it is true indeed that no one else is then the questions are valid.
But I haven't seen that data.

What advantage do they get from damaging their own vessels?

mikhail · 23-08-2017 12:22pm

grahambo wrote: »

We aren't hearing any of the Chinese Propaganda about this.

They reported it very straight. http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/world/2017-08/21/content_30897301.htm

ohnonotgmail · 23-08-2017 12:27pm

the commander of the US 7th fleet has been dismissed. Not really a shock.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41020729

Gatling · 23-08-2017 12:53pm

grahambo wrote: »

This are being claimed as accidents, which I don't think is correct.

I think something else is as play here.

Like what exactly ,

If there not accidents what are they

The_Valeyard · 23-08-2017 12:54pm

This seems to happen often enough.

Didnt a Russian surveillance ship crash into a sheep transport vessel a couple of months ago?

Then again, whats that old phrase?

one's an incident,
two's a coincidence,
three's a pattern,
Four is enemy action

Beta Ray Bill · 23-08-2017 1:04pm

Gatling wrote: »

Like what exactly ,

If there not accidents what are they

I don't have the answer to that.
Only that it is exceptionally unusual for the 4 accidents to occur in such a short space of time in just one area.
And also, at I time when tensions are high in the Area.

The Fitzgerald was almost lost, the US hasn't lost a a ship at sea in very long time.

I'm not suggesting something like "Tomorrow Never Dies/HMS Devonshire" is at play, but these ships are fitted with GPS, Radar, Sonar, etc. The Warships are fast and maneuverable. And the Sea is a big place, It just seems very suspicious to me.

ohnonotgmail · 23-08-2017 1:14pm

grahambo wrote: »

I don't have the answer to that.
Only that it is exceptionally unusual for the 4 accidents to occur in such a short space of time in just one area.
And also, at I time when tensions are high in the Area.

The Fitzgerald was almost lost, the US hasn't lost a a ship at sea in very long time.

I'm not suggesting something like "Tomorrow Never Dies/HMS Devonshire" is at play, but these ships are fitted with GPS, Radar, Sonar, etc. The Warships are fast and maneuverable. And the Sea is a big place, It just seems very suspicious to me.

Well that one area is the pacific. there is a thousand miles separating the latest incident from the fitzgerald incident.

VinLieger · 23-08-2017 1:22pm

grahambo wrote: »

And the Sea is a big place, It just seems very suspicious to me.

The sea isnt so big a place when it takes a boat several miles to come to a full stop or perform any kind of maneuver. Even the destroyers in the 2 most recent incidents which are relatively small compared to the massive aircraft carriers or tankers they still cant exactly spin around on a penny.

Granted things like that should be planned well in advance for that reason to avoid having to do them last minute and account for other ships in the area but from all accounts ive read of people who say they were previously stationed with the 7th fleet it seems like there's just boat loads of incompetence at play here rather than foul intentions.

Beta Ray Bill · 23-08-2017 1:23pm

The_Valeyard wrote: »

This seems to happen often enough.

Didnt a Russian surveillance ship crash into a sheep transport vessel a couple of months ago?

Then again, whats that old phrase?

one's an incident,
two's a coincidence,
three's a pattern,
Four is enemy action

Never a truer word spoken!

VinLieger wrote: »

The sea isnt so big a place when it takes a boat several miles to come to a full stop or perform any kind of maneuver.

Agreed,

But Naval vessels, (even the big Ticonderoga-class cruisers) are capable of performing rapid maneuvers:

They could have easily move out of the way or not gotten in the way given that they too know that it takes a large commercial boat several miles to come to a full stop

VinLieger wrote: »

Granted things like that should be planned well in advance for that reason to avoid having to do them last minute and account for other ships in the area but from all accounts ive read of people who say they were previously stationed with the 7th fleet it seems like there's just boat loads of incompetence at play here rather than foul intentions.

Perhaps you're correct. But why all of a sudden?
That's what gets me.

VinLieger · 23-08-2017 1:29pm

grahambo wrote: »

Never a truer word spoken!

Yeah if your prone to conspiracy theories.

Occams Razor is far more relevant to this

VinLieger · 23-08-2017 1:32pm

grahambo wrote: »

Perhaps you're correct. But why all of a sudden?
That's what gets me.

Again im going off accounts of whats going on in the 7th fleet that I read on reddit so take of it what you will but morale is apparently through the floor and many people were surprised its taken this long to come to a head

Also refferring to the previous 2 incidents, for any boat to perform such a maneuveur as in the picture they need to be on a certain state of alert with all hands available, the fitzgerald by all accounts was simply unaware of the proximity of the other vessel, the McCain apparently lost steering for a period up until the crash so neither boat was in a position to make such a menauveur.

Ive heard theories about the Fitzgerald that whoever was on watch was possibly too afraid/incompetant to wake up their superior when they realised their mistake to trigger such a menauver and hoped they would make it across the bow of the tanker.

Beta Ray Bill · 23-08-2017 1:43pm

VinLieger wrote: »

morale is apparently through the floor and many people were surprised its taken this long to come to a head

If that's the case, they are in no position to demand anything of China and NK

Was any reason stated as to why Morale was so low?

Based on what you said, a lot of it sounds like utter incompetence or lack of leadership (Or both)

VinLieger · 23-08-2017 1:51pm

grahambo wrote: »

If that's the case, they are in no position to demand anything of China and NK

Was any reason stated as to why Morale was so low?

Based on what you said, a lot of it sounds like utter incompetence or lack of leadership (Or both)

Im trying to find the thread again cus it was super interesting, but the gist was theres basically little to no breaks or off time for many of the personnel and when you do get them your generally confined to the base cus of constant alert lockdowns happening on them, also the bases themselves arent exactly in the best of conditions and when on ship for in some cases 9-10 months they are living on top of each other for months with zero privacy.

VinLieger · 23-08-2017 2:02pm

Heres a couple of interesting accounts

https://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/6uz5wo/guidedmissile_destroyer_uss_john_s_mccain_ddg_56/dlx25j7/

https://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/6uz5wo/guidedmissile_destroyer_uss_john_s_mccain_ddg_56/dlwsod8/

Beta Ray Bill · 23-08-2017 2:15pm

VinLieger wrote: »

Heres a couple of interesting accounts

https://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/6uz5wo/guidedmissile_destroyer_uss_john_s_mccain_ddg_56/dlx25j7/

https://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/6uz5wo/guidedmissile_destroyer_uss_john_s_mccain_ddg_56/dlwsod8/

Jesus....
Grim reading...

CruelCoin · 23-08-2017 2:30pm

Gatling wrote: »

That's a bit mad actually 2 vessels in a few weeks badly damaged ,

4th one this year.

There is a general maritime rule of giving way to shipping on the starboard side.

I'm going to put it out there and say that these crashes are caused by arrogant military vessels going "outta mah way ah gots me ma gunz"

ThisRegard · 23-08-2017 2:33pm

CruelCoin wrote: »

4th one this year.

There is a general maritime rule of giving way to shipping on the starboard side.

I'm going to put it out there and say that these crashes are caused by arrogant military vessels going "outta mah way ah gots me ma gunz"

I thought I had read that you give way to the bigger vessel? But then again I am a land lubber.

CruelCoin · 23-08-2017 2:33pm

grahambo wrote: »

Jesus....
Grim reading...

Not really that grim or that harsh.

Enlisted personal being asked to stop boozing post midnight, with work the next day?
Think of it, these people are in charge of guns. It's a good thing to have them sober!!

CruelCoin · 23-08-2017 2:33pm

ThisRegard wrote: »

I thought I had read that you give way to the bigger vessel? But then again I am a land lubber.

To be fair i haven't the foggiest idea what side starboard is....

Isn't "might is right" how it works on Indian roads?

Are Am Eye · 23-08-2017 2:40pm

CruelCoin wrote: »

I'm going to put it out there and say that these crashes are caused by arrogant military vessels going "outta mah way ah gots me ma gunz"

I bet you're basing that on the old lighthouse joke/urban myth.:P

With the incredible technology used now I wonder do people just neglect to use their eyes. Some of these tankers are so big they may be mistaken for weather fronts.

bty starboard is right, port is left.

Wossack · 23-08-2017 2:41pm

that threads a good read, gave a lot of insight into the timing (end of a watch shift), and the scenario (morale, how effing busy the place is etc)

Found this pic from this chain of particular interest. A screenshot from sort-of the shipping equivalent of skyscanner, showing activity in the area at the time of the incident

ohnonotgmail · 23-08-2017 2:41pm

CruelCoin wrote: »

4th one this year.

There is a general maritime rule of giving way to shipping on the starboard side.

I'm going to put it out there and say that these crashes are caused by arrogant military vessels going "outta mah way ah gots me ma gunz"

ThisRegard wrote: »

I thought I had read that you give way to the bigger vessel? But then again I am a land lubber.

in both of the recent incidents the us navy ship was the stand off vessel and should have maneuvered to avoid the collision.

CruelCoin · 23-08-2017 2:43pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

in both of the recent incidents the us navy ship was the stand off vessel and should have maneuvered to avoid the collision.

"Stand off"?

ohnonotgmail · 23-08-2017 2:47pm

CruelCoin wrote: »

"Stand off"?

they were the ship with the responsibility to maneuver to avoid a collision.

Manic Moran · 23-08-2017 3:59pm

Skylinehead wrote: »

That's a bit vague. All I see that he did was convene a Court of Inquiry, which isn't exactly hiding the fact? Also, how is that treason?

You should ask Americans if they consider the McCains (the ship is also named after his father) traitors. I don't think your view will be very well received.

She's named after Admiral McCain of the WW2 era (As was the Mitscher Class destroyer), as well as Admiral McCain of the 1970s, his father and grandfather. The current Senator does not have a ship named after him, though I have no doubt that the next USS John S. McCain will be named for all three of them.

Skylinehead · 23-08-2017 4:27pm

Manic Moran wrote: »

She's named after Admiral McCain of the WW2 era (As was the Mitscher Class destroyer), as well as Admiral McCain of the 1970s, his father and grandfather. The current Senator does not have a ship named after him, though I have no doubt that the next USS John S. McCain will be named for all three of them.

Yeah I was aware, I think it was the second McCain that was involved in the Liberty incident.

Some family though! I believe the first one was involved in Halseys wild goose chase that led to the Taffy 3 encounter, if I recall correctly.

Cheerful Spring · 24-08-2017 3:10pm

grahambo wrote: »

So news broke there last week that the USS John S McCain was involved in a collision with a merchant ship. 10 Sailors have are missing.

This is the 4th incident this year (According to RTE news) involving the US Navy ships colliding with Civilian shipping traffic.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2017/0823/899390-us-navy/

USS Fitzgerald, almost sank off the coast of Japan after colliding with a Philippine container ship on 17 June
USS Antietam ran aground near Yosuka, Japan
USS Champlain collided with a South Korean fishing vessel in May

And now the US Navy have relieved the Admiral in charge of the 7th Fleet. (Joseph Aucoin)

The US claim they are "helping to protect freedom of navigation" in the Area.

However to me it looks more like that US is bullying/harassing Civilian traffic in the area.
OR
Something else it going on, It's to coincidental.

This isn't happening anywhere else in the world, so why is it happening here all of a sudden?
Is this to do with NK or China's claim on the entire South China Sea?

You are right suspicious. There is a possibility the ships have Faulty equipment ( the steering broke) and the personnel onboard the ship could not control the ship to avoid collision? Investigation of the steering tech and company who made the tech is the second step i guess?. There is also a possibility of sabotage and hacking and these incidents are happening in waters around Asia.

US Navy crash off Singapore leaves 10 Missing

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