Engagement ring 'etiquette'

Day Lewin

Cripes. Some mums do 'ave 'em, eh?

(Supposing it was me....)

"....We're getting engaged. I've got to live with this man for the rest of our joint lives (and I think he's worth the effort)

I will have to endure his farts, his beer, his relations, his ups-n-downs as the years go by.
HE will have to accept my period pains, my temper tantrums, my depression....the list goes on.

He buys a precious stone costing over a grand, for me...."

And I throw a Mumsnet huff?

All I can say is...entitlement, or what? This lady is acting like a precious, self-absorbed, spoilt sugar-babe.
Her bloke is a man, that she supposedly loves - not a pizza parlour who has delivered the wrong thing to a stroppy customer.
A taste of things to come when she doesn't get her own way all the time?
I think he should ask for his ring back and give it to someone else, more capable of gratitude and appreciation. And flexibility and adapting to change.

Some of the longest-married, happiest couples never had a ring at all, if they couldn't afford it. Wrong measure. Choppy waters ahead!

kylith

I couldn't walk around with that much money on my hand and I'd have issues with a guy wasting, as I would see it, that much money on what is essentially a shiny rock.

There are much cooler, prettier, more interesting rings with non-precious stones (opals or moonstones, for example) for much less money.

GingerLily

valoren wrote: »

There should be a new rule.

Where a man proposes and needs to spend an obscene amount of money on a ring, purely through expectation such as the lady from Mumsnet, then the lady in question must buy him a wrist watch of equivalent value. Fairs fair, equality, blah blah.
You could dress it up as (read: Coerce) the bride's to be by marketing it as giving him a gift that he can pass on as an heirloom to any children they may have.

Somehow I don't see that 'tradition' taking hold. You wouldn't see many husbands-to-be sporting a Rolex I'd imagine.

My OH spent about double my ring then I would have asked, and it made me feel very guilty! He owed me money for a car I had bought for us to share so I told him to stop paying me back monthly for that, the two roughly cancelled each other out!!

I had asked him when we bought the ring if I could get him anything, as I don't like being selfish, but he was happy to spoil me

tigger123

It all depends. Women, even friends, can be quite competitive with each other, and the price of their engagement ring is just another part of that.

Plus, they're gonna have to wear it for the rest of their lives, so they want something thats a bit spendy.

Also, society pushes the idea that a woman is unfulfilled and of less value until she's loved by a man, and the engagement ring is a physical embodiment of that love, so its kind of about their own sense of value too.

Its not as simple as some are making out I think.

BrokenArrows

if she disliked the style of the ring then fair enough but if she is disliking it purely because of the price then i think her man is in for a lifetime of pain.

I proposed without a ring because i knew i wouldnt get the ring choice right so we bought it together. We decided on a budget that was practical and would buy something nice. None of this 1,2,3 months salary bull****.
Anyone who abides by the x months salary rule is a fool. If he is on 100k a year that would mean a 5-15k value ring. Who the **** wants to walk around with this much money on their finger.

I sometimes see women on the London tube with giant stones on their rings and they just look tacky and ****, never mind the impracticability of having something that big on your finger and always banging into things.

kylith

tigger123 wrote: »

It all depends. Women, even friends, can be quite competitive with each other, and the price of their engagement ring is just another part of that.

Plus, they're gonna have to wear it for the rest of their lives, so they want something thats a bit spendy.

Also, society pushes the idea that a woman is unfulfilled and of less value until she's loved by a man, and the engagement ring is a physical embodiment of that love, so its kind of about their own sense of value too.

Its not as simple as some are making out I think.

I think it is. If a woman wants a man to go into debt over a shiny stone, the price of which is inflated by de Beers, the mining of which is often done on the backs of slaves, just so she can waggle the cost of a car under the noses of her friends over brunch then she is a shallow, materialistic, headwrecker who doesn't actually love him, just what he can give her.

But that's just my opinion.

Dramatik

I would just buy some piece of **** ring first, if she was fine with the first ring and didn't kick up too much of a fuss I would surprise her with a propper ring, otherwise she doesn't deserve the ring in the first place and she can do one. Like who do you value more? Your partner for life or the opinions of some snobby-minded people?

marvin80

Why Engagement Rings Are a Scam - Adam Ruins Everything:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5kWu1ifBGU

tigger123

kylith wrote: »

I think it is. If a woman wants a man to go into debt over a shiny stone, the price of which is inflated by de Beers, the mining of which is often done on the backs of slaves, just so she can waggle the cost of a car under the noses of her friends over brunch then she is a shallow, materialistic, headwrecker who doesn't actually love him, just what he can give her.

But that's just my opinion.

"What's so impressive about diamonds, except mining".

I never said anything about getting into debt. That's a different scale of nonsense. As is the multiple of a months salary bullplop.

osarusan

Didn't buy one for my wife, using the 'it isn't a tradition in this country' argument. All of a sudden I was a stickler for Japanese traditions. She wasn't bothered anyway.

RoboRat

BrokenArrows wrote: »

I sometimes see women on the London tube with giant stones on their rings and they just look tacky and ****, never mind the impracticability of having something that big on your finger and always banging into things.

I did a bit of work with a woman in London who had a £250,000 canary diamond ring that was hideous. I used to joke that I would cut her finger off and sell the ring... oh how we laughed... she did anyway, I wasn't sure if I was joking.

kylith

tigger123 wrote: »

"What's so impressive about diamonds, except mining".

I never said anything about getting into debt. That's a different scale of nonsense. As is the multiple of a months salary bullplop.

Could you clarify then what you meant by "A bit spendy" and "Women, can be quite competitive with each other, and the price of their engagement ring is just another part of that"?

valoren

GingerLily wrote: »

My OH spent about double my ring then I would have asked, and it made me feel very guilty! He owed me money for a car I had bought for us to share so I told him to stop paying me back monthly for that, the two roughly cancelled each other out!!

I had asked him when we bought the ring if I could get him anything, as I don't like being selfish, but he was happy to spoil me

My older brother spend €9,000 on a ring. 9k. Bear in mind, we're no millionaire's. His wife has no idea he spent that kind of money. She would absolutely kill him if she knew and would refuse to wear it understandably. To me it looks like something from QVC and their simulated Diamonique products. If you're rich, fair enough, spend to your hearts content but it seemed like he was more interested, swept up in the process than she was, with the 4 C's, spending 3 times salary as a rule and all that nonsense. She also would have been perfectly content with something basic and affordable.

He bought it in a fancy jewelers in the city centre. I happened to be with him and had no idea he was buying it that day. The jewelers is the one people go to so they can impress other people, who can presume that a large amount of cash was spent therein. He asked the sales man if he could see the ring in natural light outside, however he said he can't bring it out onto the street in case it was snatched etc. He suggested they go out the back of the shop. We walked past the Rolexes, the Patek Phillippe watches that cost the price of a car and past the canteen, where the manicured staff, sat eating McDonalds. Nothing to devalue the experience of spending a fortune, of seeing past the front they put on than seeing that :P

I ran out of various ways and iterations of saying "You are an idiot" but as they say, a Fool and his money......

tigger123

kylith wrote: »

Could you clarify then what you meant by "A bit spendy" and "Women, can be quite competitive with each other, and the price of their engagement ring is just another part of that"?

"A bit spendy" ... are you looking for me to define a euro amount?

andekwarhola

I let my wife pick it (about 12 years ago). It cost around 75% of my monthly salary at the time. She's pretty sensible about financial things in general and we were just about to buy a house together as well. Picked up wedding bands on a trip to the states for about 500 dollars each IIRC.

In my mind, people can spend (or not) whatever they think is appropriate IMO and there's too many variables to judge other people.

The woman in the article sounds horrible though.

maudgonner

Dramatik wrote: »

I would just buy some piece of **** ring first, if she was fine with the first ring and didn't kick up too much of a fuss I would surprise her with a propper ring, otherwise she doesn't deserve the ring in the first place and she can do one. Like who do you value more? Your partner for life or the opinions of some snobby-minded people?

That's....actually worse than what's described in the OP. If she's 'worthy' of a proper ring? You're talking about someone you plan to spend the rest of your life with. You should be able to judge her character without playing games. 'If she didn't kick up too much of a fuss' FFS!

Wibbs

kylith wrote: »

I think it is. If a woman wants a man to go into debt over a shiny stone, the price of which is inflated by de Beers, the mining of which is often done on the backs of slaves, just so she can waggle the cost of a car under the noses of her friends over brunch then she is a shallow, materialistic, headwrecker who doesn't actually love him, just what he can give her.

But that's just my opinion.

One I would wholeheartedly agree with. That said K and again just going by my experience the social/peer pressure stuff is bought into by a lot of women(and men, in this and other things, though IMHO women are more likely to be socially aware to the point of herding behaviour in some). Engagement rings and pricey weddings would be a minority thing if it wasn't. Both are huge businesses. It can be very culturally based too of course. Social backgrounds a factor too.

kylith

tigger123 wrote: »

"A bit spendy" ... are you looking for me to define a euro amount?

Not at all, just your use of 'a bit spendy' to me would have indicated spending to excess; i.e. beyond what one could afford.

Chris.

xzanti wrote: »

So many people saying "it's not about the cost" "Spending any sort of money on the ring is vulgar" etc. But yet EVERY married woman I know has a fairly pricey looking engagement ring on her finger.

Same with the comments on the FB article. Interesting.

The ring i bought my other half looks pricey but it cost under 300 quid. She loves it but when she asked how much it cost, she said I spent too much.

Dramatik

maudgonner wrote: »

That's....actually worse than what's described in the OP. If she's 'worthy' of a proper ring? You're talking about someone you plan to spend the rest of your life with. You should be able to judge her character without playing games. 'If she didn't kick up too much of a fuss' FFS!

For me the relationship would never have got that far in the first place as it's something that I test out early in the relationship before we even start going out but I know for a lot of men that are blinded by looks it can go down to the wire for them to notice. I was replying in the mindset that I was in the position of the man in the OP and how I would react to that, rather than the way I go about my relationships in real life.

RacoonQueen

Cost wouldn't be an issue to me. I'd want him to spend as little as possible on it. I'd prefer he picked it himself tbh. Once it wasn't some monstrosity of a thing I'd be happy out with it.

tigger123

kylith wrote: »

Not at all, just your use of 'a bit spendy' to me would have indicated spending to excess; i.e. beyond what one could afford.

Ah no, that's not what I'm saying. Its all relative.

I'll put it this way, I would happily spend 2k on a guitar (specifically a '73 reissue Telecaster, with the f-hole), but I would regard that as a luxury item. I wouldn't have to get into debt to do it, but certainly couldn't do it in a regular basis.

That, to me, would be the ball park of an engagement ring, ie, would you spend that amount of money on yourself for a luxury item. If you would, you should probably aim at that price range if your fiancée doesn't like guitars, but enjoys rings and being a bit showy with her friends.

StupidLikeAFox

Stick to the traditional benchmark of 5 months wages and you'll be grand

kylith

tigger123 wrote: »

Ah no, that's not what I'm saying. Its all relative.

I'll put it this way, I would happily spend 2k on a guitar (specifically a '73 reissue Telecaster, with the f-hole), but I would regard that as a luxury item. I wouldn't have to get into debt to do it, but certainly couldn't do it in a regular basis.

That, to me, would be the ball park of an engagement ring, ie, would you spend that amount of money on yourself for a luxury item. If you would, you should probably aim at that price range if your fiancée doesn't like guitars, but enjoys rings and being a bit showy with her friends.

That's still a month's wages for a lot of people.

Personally, I'd feel uncomfortable walking around with that much money on my hand, especially when there are much better things it could be used for.

Grayson

My girlfriend wants a small non costly ring. It's not about value or the stone, it's about being practical.

Of course my girlfriend is in my imagination so it'd be weird if she was bitchy about it.

Edit: Just realised I passed 10k posts. Can't wait to tell my girlfriend later.

dr.fuzzenstein

If a couple decides that an expensive ring is for them, sure, if it makes them happy, I'm not one to judge. But the relationship is more important. And I always thought it was utter madness and insanity to get into several hundred grands worth of debt to get the house, the car, the ring, the expensive wedding and the honeymoon in Hawaii all at the same time.
It's kind of telling that if you google "average price of wedding Ireland", you get a text box with €24k in it, but if you google the same for Germany, you get a list of prices for the registry office.
My wife and I talked about what ring to get, she doesn't like gold and diamonds and thinks the idea of hugely expensive rings is silly.
We settled on stainless steel rings with a silver inlay and hers has a tiny stone set into it. They're kind of engagement and friendship rings at the same time. They cost a few hundred and we love them. Since we both prefer jewellery to be made from materiels like leather, steel (no, not that ya dirty fecker), wood and other "earthy" materials, it suits us down to the ground. And I absolutely adore her for that.
We did get some wedding rings, silver claddagh ones. They cost buttons and aren't that important to us. The steel rings we bought after we decided to get married mean the world to us, their importance goes far beyond money.
And I love the fact their next to indestructible. If I'm ever stuck in a situation where the plane, boat or train I'm on can only be saved by an extra hard stainless steel washer or spacer, I'm the guy.

coffee_cake

I don't think i could cope with an expensive ring. I'd break it or lose it or something

RoboRat

Dramatik wrote: »

For me the relationship would never have got that far in the first place as it's something that I test out early in the relationship before we even start going out but I know for a lot of men that are blinded by looks it can go down to the wire for them to notice. I was replying in the mindset that I was in the position of the man in the OP and how I would react to that, rather than the way I go about my relationships in real life.

Unfortunately with relationships, most people don't talk about engagement rings and expectations at the start. Its only 5 - 10 years down the line that it actually comes up. By this time they are in love and have made their mind up that this person is the one for them, have been with them for a significant time, perhaps living with them/ bought a house together / have kids or any combination of the aforementioned.

They may feel they are so long out of the game that they don't want to split up over something like a ring and suck it up. Let's be honest, if you're with someone for 10 years, do you really want to let them go over an expense? I am not saying it's right but I can guarantee that there are many blokes who have done this.

The warning signs may not have been there... lets be real, many women have their wedding planned in their head for years or have, after attending many weddings, decided what they want for their big day. They want a fairy tale wedding and although they may be practical in life, this is the one day that society has determined must be 'special'.

They may have been influenced by new friends or colleagues over time and whilst they may have been of the mindset to be practical at the start, are now influenced by peer pressure and their tastes have evolved over time. Therefore the ring has to be special as this is the entree to the actual big day.

This leads to people agreeing to expenses/ luxuries they normally wouldn't and can then lead to resentment. Ironically, it may end up being the death knell to the relationship in the long run as resentment has a tendency to fester and grow.

How do we stop it? It's quite simple really, just talk to each other and come to a compromise. Let each person express their opinion and try to see it from their point of view.

I personally hold no stock in what others think, my wife does. I feel it's silly but she is her own person so I have to be somewhat sympathetic to her mindset. There is social pressure and I understand that, just because I wear old boardshorts, flip flops and a tshirt at the weekend doesn't mean I am not being judged, I certainly am, but I don't care... A lot of people do care so I can't just dismiss their feelings because I feel its invalid.

Whilst in this specific case I feel the woman was being narcissistic, purely due to the ring being an issue because of its perceived value, she may (and probably does) associate in circles where she felt embarrassed about the size of her ring and felt that there would be gossiping behind her back... so this then leads to whether her partner is the problem or her friends... or is it all in her head!!!

notsoyoungwan

I know a woman who was initially perfectly happy with her engagement ring, which was a solitaire diamond. She was extremely effusive and gushing about it, in fact. Some time later, a friend of hers got engaged and that woman's ring had three diamonds. The first woman handed her ring back to her partner and told him to get diamonds added to it so that hers would have more diamonds than her friend's ring. The fool of a fella did as he was told and is still with her.

seamus

seamus wrote: »

.............. Thankfully the "kept woman" attitude is dying out and women like her who are obsessed with their partner's income and what they buy her, are becoming rarer and rarer.

..I agreed with you when I read that.
Than I considered of the 7 of us from college (buddies) who are all on decent money now and have been for the last decade plus only one of us married someone with a decent job and she's since packed it in and is a full time mum (to one child) :pac: