Engagement ring 'etiquette'

RoboRat

I was reading about a woman on mumsnet who was a bit miffed about her engagement ring and was getting heaps of abuse about it. Basically her fella bought her a £1300 ring but she didn't like it, I think in this instance she was was wrong as her motivation was “His salary is nearing a six figure sum and he’s usually very generous.”

I would have always been of the mentality of it's a gift and it's wrong to complain. I guess I am more mature now and when I consider that it's something she has to wear for the rest of her life (or marriage) then I guess it should be something she likes and suits her style. I know if my wife was buying me a watch (which I am very particular about), I would like some input.

As previously stated, this seems more about the value of the ring or what he spent, rather than it being a style issue, so she was 100% being a troglodyte, but there is a degree of pressure exerted on blokes in regards to what they pay for a ring.

I know when it came to my wife, I bought a token cheap ring and said we would look together. What she liked for was outside what I was willing to pay and even though on a few occasions I booked in with jewelers in Ireland and gave them my budget, they still produced rings outside what I could afford. Eventually I settled with going to Antwerp, booked in with 4 jewelers and let them know the budget and they were consummate professionals and my wife got her dream ring made for her.

What is the general consensus on engagement rings, should the woman have input or is it a gift?

Link to the article:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-4790084/Woman-complains-1-300-engagement-ring.html

pickarooney

I think it's a ludicrous concept that suckers continue to buy into.

seamus

It's a gift. But considering the plan is for the woman to wear it for the rest of her life, you'd be silly not to let her choose it herself. Or at least know what she wants.

Price is irrelevant. Thankfully the "kept woman" attitude is dying out and women like her who are obsessed with their partner's income and what they buy her, are becoming rarer and rarer.

Danbo!

It's a very accurate indicator of how mental the lady may be. If she flips her lid saying "you should have spent more" then you have about a year to get out before **** gets real. If she doesn't care about the cost, then happy days.

maudgonner

Mumsnet. I think that's all I need to say.


(My own view on engagement rings is that I wouldn't want more than E100 spent on it. I'd be too afraid of losing anything more valuable)

neonsofa

pickarooney wrote: »

I think it's a ludicrous concept that suckers continue to buy into.

Yeah I think I feel the same way. I like the idea of proposals and the ring etc. for the tradition of it all, but then I myself don't actually want to wear one ring for the rest of my life, nor do I want to get married. I think I just don't want to miss out on the "romance" and hullabaloo of it all :pac:

Considering I don't even have a partner I think I needn't be worrying at all though!

Winterlong

I would never in a hundred years have picked out the engagement ring that my wife would have wanted. I just had no idea. So we bought it together. Buying the ring was a nice joint experience in it'self.

I have a friend who bought the ring in advance. In a foreign country. His fiance hated it. And that then became an issue. Eventually he took her out shopping for a new ring and that became a 6 week torture as she could not make her mind up. Alarm bells right there.

I bought my own ring on the way home from the cinema one day. Took all of 4 minutes.

Do people still do this

My god

RoboRat

maudgonner wrote: »

Mumsnet. I think that's all I need to say.


(My own view on engagement rings is that if I was to get engaged I wouldn't want more than E100 spent on a ring. I'd be too afraid of losing anything more valuable)

I know it's mumsnet but it is something that does cause friction, I know of a few blokes who ended up spending more than they were willing to as the fiancee wanted it, and it annoyed them.

It's a tough situation for men, it's a big spend in most cases and it's a hard thing to put a price on as you may upset the other half if they feel you are being cheap. On the other hand they do have to wear it and women do compare, not openly, but they do compare.

Kimbot

It shouldnt matter how much a dam ring cost as long as they are happy together.

Wibbs

jonnycivic wrote: »

It shouldnt matter how much a dam ring cost as long as they are happy together.

It shouldn't, but for some it does. Then again such women are to be avoided like the very plague. It has been my experience that women who are obsessed with the whole engagement and wedding "thing" are not good candidates for the actual marriage. They're more about them and their social standing ticking of the "right" boxes. There are certainly men like this, but they're more a minority, but equally should be approached with a ten foot bargepole.

neonsofa

RoboRat wrote: »

I know it's mumsnet but it is something that does cause friction, I know of a few blokes who ended up spending more than they were willing to as the fiancee wanted it, and it annoyed them.

It's a tough situation for men, it's a big spend in most cases and it's a hard thing to put a price on as you may upset the other half if they feel you are being cheap. On the other hand they do have to wear it and women do compare, not openly, but they do compare.

But you say women compare etc but if that's their motive for wanting an expensive ring then it's not even them wanting something and insisting on it, they are just trying to impress/show off to/keep up with others. And putting the person they love under stress/into debt to do so. For a ring that is supposed to symbolise their love and intent towards each other. It's bizarre.

I proposed using a Claddagh friendship ring as a "token" ring. We then chose the ring together, well she had more input.

If id have chosen it myself I'd have been way off!! She preferred a sapphire to a diamond so Id be wrong from the beginning!!

My advice is to pick ring together that way at least you'll know she'll say yes when you do propose!!!

Joe Exotic

I proposed without the ring, had it made by a guy in Offaly (to my wifes design) who makes rings for the shops, he was happy to open our eyes to the industry and what goes on.

We ended up spending as much as we would in Dublin but got far better quality for our money.

If your in a shop ask them why D is the top colour if they don't know run away. if they say because D is for Diamond(as one Grafton street shop told us) then run faster.

reality is that the ring is just a symbol and if that symbol isn't good enough then perhaps questions should be asked !!

silverharp

you cant win, the other day Sky News were giving out about men proposing without having a ring at the time, surely there is a place for surprising the lady in question with a proposal. You do hear some demented stories where the guy didn't follow "the plan" , If I had the impression I was supposed to be following a 20 year old plan hatched in the mind of an 8 year old I'd be looking for the nearest exit.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

I don't know, any gifts of jewellery I've received from males in my life that was chosen by them was always special to me even though they weren't items I'd have picked for myself. It's not the price of it it's the intention behind it that's meaningful.

McMurphy

Had an itchy arse one evening in Swords Pavilion, and was swiftly asked to leave Fields jewellers soon afterwards.

The sign in their windows telling customers to "come in and pick their ring in comfort" is blatantly false advertising :mad:

RoboRat

neonsofa wrote: »

But you say women compare etc but if that's their motive for wanting an expensive ring then it's not even them wanting something and insisting on it, they are just trying to impress/show off to/keep up with others. And putting the person they love under stress/into debt to do so. For a ring that is supposed to symbolise their love and intent towards each other. It's bizarre.

Oh I agree, but as a colleague of mine once said, you don't want to be the girl with the crumb. When a woman gets engaged most women want to see and inspect the ring and that is possibly what leads to the self conscious attitude. Personally I couldn't care less but that is who I am and I don't want to 'keep up with the Jones's'. Many others are more socially led and care.

I do think that the woman should have a say but the value should never be a factor. If they want a bigger stone, then go with a lower grade or clarity or synthetic. It's not like people pull out a loupe! I honestly think you could have a cubic zirconia and nobody would know any different.

RoboRat

silverharp wrote: »

you cant win, the other day Sky News were giving out about men proposing without having a ring at the time, surely there is a place for surprising the lady in question with a proposal. You do hear some demented stories where the guy didn't follow "the plan" , If I had the impression I was supposed to be following a 20 year old plan hatched in the mind of an 8 year old I'd be looking for the nearest exit.

It's funny, in Antwerp one of the jewelers asked why my fiancee was choosing something that I was paying for; a ring is a gift and a token of my love (he put great emphasis on the word token). He couldn't understand why this happens as the value shouldn't matter... ironic seeing as he was the jeweler and it was in his interest to get a higher sale, but poignant none the less.

neonsofa

RoboRat wrote: »

Oh I agree, but as a colleague of mine once said, you don't want to be the girl with the crumb. When a woman gets engaged most women want to see and inspect the ring and that is possibly what leads to the self conscious attitude. Personally I couldn't care less but that is who I am and I don't want to 'keep up with the Jones's'. Many others are more socially led and care.

Ah I do get that but like, if they are that type then they're gonna judge everything- the man, the wedding venue, the honeymoon, the house- so it's a slippery slope trying to keep up, and it only ends in misery and debt. Not a great way to begin a marriage- creating all that stress to please people with no involvement in the relationship.

RoboRat

Rick Shaw wrote: »

Had an itchy arse one evening in Swords Pavilion, and was swiftly asked to leave Fields jewellers soon afterwards.

The sign in their windows telling customers to "come in and pick their ring in comfort" is blatantly false advertising :mad:

Same in another well know Irish jeweler known for engagement rings. Rang in advance to book an appointment, told them my budget which was very reasonable and told them to keep within it. Arrived and they were offering champagne, I refused as I wanted to see what they had first before feeling pressure to buy. Came out with 4 rings, 3 were within price range, the 4th was double my budget. I walked out, it was a rotten sneaky tactic and I swore I would never darken their door again.

silverharp

RoboRat wrote: »

It's funny, in Antwerp one of the jewelers asked why my fiancee was choosing something that I was paying for; a ring is a gift and a token of my love (he put great emphasis on the word token). He couldn't understand why this happens as the value shouldn't matter... ironic seeing as he was the jeweler and it was in his interest to get a higher sale, but poignant none the less.

Interesting!, we went to Bruges as they have a well known diamond district and to make a weekend out of it.

Mollyb60

Women who demand expensive engagement rings would totally put me off. It should be about the intention behind it, not the actual physical thing. Also I would be terrified walking around with thousands of pounds worth of jewellery on my finger.
My ring cost £35. It's just a ring that represents a moment. My relationship itself means more to me.

Lux23

The cost wouldn't be an issue for me, it's more what it looks like. We have been looking at engagement rings in my house for ages now and I still haven't found one I liked.

Mollyb60

RoboRat wrote: »

Oh I agree, but as a colleague of mine once said, you don't want to be the girl with the crumb. When a woman gets engaged most women want to see and inspect the ring and that is possibly what leads to the self conscious attitude.

I don't think most people could tell the difference between a hugely expensive ring and one bought in argos. I told my sister that my ring cost £2,000 and she totally bought it.

xzanti

So many people saying "it's not about the cost" "Spending any sort of money on the ring is vulgar" etc. But yet EVERY married woman I know has a fairly pricey looking engagement ring on her finger.

Same with the comments on the FB article. Interesting.

valoren

There should be a new rule.

Where a man proposes and needs to spend an obscene amount of money on a ring, purely through expectation such as the lady from Mumsnet, then the lady in question must buy him a wrist watch of equivalent value. Fairs fair, equality, blah blah.
You could dress it up as (read: Coerce) the bride's to be by marketing it as giving him a gift that he can pass on as an heirloom to any children they may have.

Somehow I don't see that 'tradition' taking hold. You wouldn't see many husbands-to-be sporting a Rolex I'd imagine.

The De Beers campaign from the 30's onwards to flog effectively worthless (albeit) pretty pieces of carbon and charge thousands for them to gullible, pressurized men is one of the greatest marketing campaigns of all time.

FWIW - I proposed in NY with a love heart sweet which said 'SAY YES' as a stand in. We went looking for a ring and thankfully my OH was appalled at some of the prices. She refused to let me spend anything obscene. We found a beautiful diamond ring in the fine jewelry section of Bloomingdale's which she absolutely adores and which didn't cost an absolute fortune. She'd have been happy with a barn brack ring but I wanted to get a diamond like the brainwashed dope I am

kg703

Anyone asking for a more expensive ring is a witch and should be avoided. As long as it's real metal and doesnt turn their finger green, you shouldnt put pressure on your partner to be saving for months/years to get you a piece of jewellery.

Myself and OH had been together 9 years when he proposed and even though marriage wasn't a big deal to either of us, I knew a proposal was on the cards at some stage. I had said "Do NOT spend a load of money on a ring - I don't wear jewellery and anything nice that I have gotten I lost"

He spent more on it anyway because he wanted to. Have it insured and have managed not to lose it. He picked it himself, he picked a beautiful ring but I understand why people would want to choose their own. I think safe bet is to let herself pick it unless she loves surprises. I have seen some ugly as* rings out there and honestly if he had of handed me a giant flashy yoke, I would of had to lie to him for the rest of my life :D

Basically I think the style is something up for discussion - not the budget!

Surely at the point when you want to marry each other, you can talk about these things like adults? If not, maybe reconsider :P

RoboRat

neonsofa wrote: »

Ah I do get that but like, if they are that type then they're gonna judge everything- the man, the wedding venue, the honeymoon, the house- so it's a slippery slope trying to keep up, and it only ends in misery and debt. Not a great way to begin a marriage- creating all that stress to please people with no involvement in the relationship.

Not necessarily, many people are swayed by social standing and as I said if they are willing to compromise they can still get what they want within budget.

My wife had an idea of what she wanted, I couldn't afford to get it off the shelf so she paid to go to Antwerp for a weekend and get it there. She picked out the stone she loved and band she loved but she compromised on clarity, which she couldn't do in Dublin as the rings were pre-made.

They literally bring out bags of stones of various cuts, colour, grade and clarity and you choose the stone, then you pick the band (which is usually free with the stone). They set the stone and next day you collect the ring. She also bought me a gorgeous watch in return which was lovely.

This has always been the way in our relationship, we compromise so both of us are happy, or at least not pissed off. She likes things, I have no real desire for things and no desire for financial pressure to pay for said things so we agree what we can afford and both of us are happy.

TheShow

for piece of mind, you're better off having her involved in the process. however you need to openly & honestly discuss the budget before you go looking.
I remember being in Tiffannys in NYC about 10 years ago (not buying a ring), this lad was with his fiancee and the were picking out a ring, champagne etc, all the bells and whistles. All very nice until his credit card got declined, she wasnt so happy then. it was very funny to watch though!

Mountainsandh

I spotted my own ring by myself after we talked about getting engaged, and we went to buy it together. It was 250 euros, and it's gorgeous. It was more about the symbol and the prettiness of it than the value.

I really can't understand the mentality of some women. I just can't, I don't understand how that showing off thing is more important than the romance.

It's about 17 years ago now and my pretty ring is too small for arthritic fingers, but I'll get great joy at wearing it again when I finally get it enlarged.

Day Lewin

Cripes. Some mums do 'ave 'em, eh?

(Supposing it was me....)

"....We're getting engaged. I've got to live with this man for the rest of our joint lives (and I think he's worth the effort)

I will have to endure his farts, his beer, his relations, his ups-n-downs as the years go by.
HE will have to accept my period pains, my temper tantrums, my depression....the list goes on.

He buys a precious stone costing over a grand, for me...."

And I throw a Mumsnet huff?

All I can say is...entitlement, or what? This lady is acting like a precious, self-absorbed, spoilt sugar-babe.
Her bloke is a man, that she supposedly loves - not a pizza parlour who has delivered the wrong thing to a stroppy customer.
A taste of things to come when she doesn't get her own way all the time?
I think he should ask for his ring back and give it to someone else, more capable of gratitude and appreciation. And flexibility and adapting to change.

Some of the longest-married, happiest couples never had a ring at all, if they couldn't afford it. Wrong measure. Choppy waters ahead!

kylith

I couldn't walk around with that much money on my hand and I'd have issues with a guy wasting, as I would see it, that much money on what is essentially a shiny rock.

There are much cooler, prettier, more interesting rings with non-precious stones (opals or moonstones, for example) for much less money.

GingerLily

valoren wrote: »

There should be a new rule.

Where a man proposes and needs to spend an obscene amount of money on a ring, purely through expectation such as the lady from Mumsnet, then the lady in question must buy him a wrist watch of equivalent value. Fairs fair, equality, blah blah.
You could dress it up as (read: Coerce) the bride's to be by marketing it as giving him a gift that he can pass on as an heirloom to any children they may have.

Somehow I don't see that 'tradition' taking hold. You wouldn't see many husbands-to-be sporting a Rolex I'd imagine.

My OH spent about double my ring then I would have asked, and it made me feel very guilty! He owed me money for a car I had bought for us to share so I told him to stop paying me back monthly for that, the two roughly cancelled each other out!!

I had asked him when we bought the ring if I could get him anything, as I don't like being selfish, but he was happy to spoil me

tigger123

It all depends. Women, even friends, can be quite competitive with each other, and the price of their engagement ring is just another part of that.

Plus, they're gonna have to wear it for the rest of their lives, so they want something thats a bit spendy.

Also, society pushes the idea that a woman is unfulfilled and of less value until she's loved by a man, and the engagement ring is a physical embodiment of that love, so its kind of about their own sense of value too.

Its not as simple as some are making out I think.

BrokenArrows

if she disliked the style of the ring then fair enough but if she is disliking it purely because of the price then i think her man is in for a lifetime of pain.

I proposed without a ring because i knew i wouldnt get the ring choice right so we bought it together. We decided on a budget that was practical and would buy something nice. None of this 1,2,3 months salary bull****.
Anyone who abides by the x months salary rule is a fool. If he is on 100k a year that would mean a 5-15k value ring. Who the **** wants to walk around with this much money on their finger.

I sometimes see women on the London tube with giant stones on their rings and they just look tacky and ****, never mind the impracticability of having something that big on your finger and always banging into things.

kylith

tigger123 wrote: »

It all depends. Women, even friends, can be quite competitive with each other, and the price of their engagement ring is just another part of that.

Plus, they're gonna have to wear it for the rest of their lives, so they want something thats a bit spendy.

Also, society pushes the idea that a woman is unfulfilled and of less value until she's loved by a man, and the engagement ring is a physical embodiment of that love, so its kind of about their own sense of value too.

Its not as simple as some are making out I think.

I think it is. If a woman wants a man to go into debt over a shiny stone, the price of which is inflated by de Beers, the mining of which is often done on the backs of slaves, just so she can waggle the cost of a car under the noses of her friends over brunch then she is a shallow, materialistic, headwrecker who doesn't actually love him, just what he can give her.

But that's just my opinion.

Dramatik

I would just buy some piece of **** ring first, if she was fine with the first ring and didn't kick up too much of a fuss I would surprise her with a propper ring, otherwise she doesn't deserve the ring in the first place and she can do one. Like who do you value more? Your partner for life or the opinions of some snobby-minded people?

marvin80

Why Engagement Rings Are a Scam - Adam Ruins Everything:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5kWu1ifBGU

tigger123

kylith wrote: »

I think it is. If a woman wants a man to go into debt over a shiny stone, the price of which is inflated by de Beers, the mining of which is often done on the backs of slaves, just so she can waggle the cost of a car under the noses of her friends over brunch then she is a shallow, materialistic, headwrecker who doesn't actually love him, just what he can give her.

But that's just my opinion.

"What's so impressive about diamonds, except mining".

I never said anything about getting into debt. That's a different scale of nonsense. As is the multiple of a months salary bullplop.

osarusan

Didn't buy one for my wife, using the 'it isn't a tradition in this country' argument. All of a sudden I was a stickler for Japanese traditions. She wasn't bothered anyway.

RoboRat

BrokenArrows wrote: »

I sometimes see women on the London tube with giant stones on their rings and they just look tacky and ****, never mind the impracticability of having something that big on your finger and always banging into things.

I did a bit of work with a woman in London who had a £250,000 canary diamond ring that was hideous. I used to joke that I would cut her finger off and sell the ring... oh how we laughed... she did anyway, I wasn't sure if I was joking.

kylith

tigger123 wrote: »

"What's so impressive about diamonds, except mining".

I never said anything about getting into debt. That's a different scale of nonsense. As is the multiple of a months salary bullplop.

Could you clarify then what you meant by "A bit spendy" and "Women, can be quite competitive with each other, and the price of their engagement ring is just another part of that"?

valoren

GingerLily wrote: »

My OH spent about double my ring then I would have asked, and it made me feel very guilty! He owed me money for a car I had bought for us to share so I told him to stop paying me back monthly for that, the two roughly cancelled each other out!!

I had asked him when we bought the ring if I could get him anything, as I don't like being selfish, but he was happy to spoil me

My older brother spend €9,000 on a ring. 9k. Bear in mind, we're no millionaire's. His wife has no idea he spent that kind of money. She would absolutely kill him if she knew and would refuse to wear it understandably. To me it looks like something from QVC and their simulated Diamonique products. If you're rich, fair enough, spend to your hearts content but it seemed like he was more interested, swept up in the process than she was, with the 4 C's, spending 3 times salary as a rule and all that nonsense. She also would have been perfectly content with something basic and affordable.

He bought it in a fancy jewelers in the city centre. I happened to be with him and had no idea he was buying it that day. The jewelers is the one people go to so they can impress other people, who can presume that a large amount of cash was spent therein. He asked the sales man if he could see the ring in natural light outside, however he said he can't bring it out onto the street in case it was snatched etc. He suggested they go out the back of the shop. We walked past the Rolexes, the Patek Phillippe watches that cost the price of a car and past the canteen, where the manicured staff, sat eating McDonalds. Nothing to devalue the experience of spending a fortune, of seeing past the front they put on than seeing that :P

I ran out of various ways and iterations of saying "You are an idiot" but as they say, a Fool and his money......

tigger123

kylith wrote: »

Could you clarify then what you meant by "A bit spendy" and "Women, can be quite competitive with each other, and the price of their engagement ring is just another part of that"?

"A bit spendy" ... are you looking for me to define a euro amount?

andekwarhola

I let my wife pick it (about 12 years ago). It cost around 75% of my monthly salary at the time. She's pretty sensible about financial things in general and we were just about to buy a house together as well. Picked up wedding bands on a trip to the states for about 500 dollars each IIRC.

In my mind, people can spend (or not) whatever they think is appropriate IMO and there's too many variables to judge other people.

The woman in the article sounds horrible though.

maudgonner

Dramatik wrote: »

I would just buy some piece of **** ring first, if she was fine with the first ring and didn't kick up too much of a fuss I would surprise her with a propper ring, otherwise she doesn't deserve the ring in the first place and she can do one. Like who do you value more? Your partner for life or the opinions of some snobby-minded people?

That's....actually worse than what's described in the OP. If she's 'worthy' of a proper ring? You're talking about someone you plan to spend the rest of your life with. You should be able to judge her character without playing games. 'If she didn't kick up too much of a fuss' FFS!

Wibbs

kylith wrote: »

I think it is. If a woman wants a man to go into debt over a shiny stone, the price of which is inflated by de Beers, the mining of which is often done on the backs of slaves, just so she can waggle the cost of a car under the noses of her friends over brunch then she is a shallow, materialistic, headwrecker who doesn't actually love him, just what he can give her.

But that's just my opinion.

One I would wholeheartedly agree with. That said K and again just going by my experience the social/peer pressure stuff is bought into by a lot of women(and men, in this and other things, though IMHO women are more likely to be socially aware to the point of herding behaviour in some). Engagement rings and pricey weddings would be a minority thing if it wasn't. Both are huge businesses. It can be very culturally based too of course. Social backgrounds a factor too.

kylith

tigger123 wrote: »

"A bit spendy" ... are you looking for me to define a euro amount?

Not at all, just your use of 'a bit spendy' to me would have indicated spending to excess; i.e. beyond what one could afford.

Chris.

xzanti wrote: »

So many people saying "it's not about the cost" "Spending any sort of money on the ring is vulgar" etc. But yet EVERY married woman I know has a fairly pricey looking engagement ring on her finger.

Same with the comments on the FB article. Interesting.

The ring i bought my other half looks pricey but it cost under 300 quid. She loves it but when she asked how much it cost, she said I spent too much.

Dramatik

maudgonner wrote: »

That's....actually worse than what's described in the OP. If she's 'worthy' of a proper ring? You're talking about someone you plan to spend the rest of your life with. You should be able to judge her character without playing games. 'If she didn't kick up too much of a fuss' FFS!

For me the relationship would never have got that far in the first place as it's something that I test out early in the relationship before we even start going out but I know for a lot of men that are blinded by looks it can go down to the wire for them to notice. I was replying in the mindset that I was in the position of the man in the OP and how I would react to that, rather than the way I go about my relationships in real life.