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Is it worth living life right and by the rules

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    #182
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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    #183
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    salonfire wrote: »
    And they get absolutely nothing for it.

    Crap public transport means they need to run a car.

    If living in a poor area, then crap schools (paid by property tax - another tax on the poor can't afford)

    Having to rely on Church groups for any sort of Welfare and food.

    If working in a low paid job, then likely worthless healthcare coverage. May not even be able to afford an ambulance in case of emergency.

    No assistance with Third Level education costs, instead they get up to their necks in debt.

    Indeed. My states experience is Colorado. A relatively progressive state but an American state that believes in the cult of deserving. The poor deserve it and the rich deserve it. It's very easy for someone to make it in Ireland, move to the states, do very well and see it as the land of oppertunity. I'm doing well between the UK and the states. I attribute that to my Irish education and the state's willingness to look after it's people.

    We should be proud Ireland looks after the vunerable. It's not perfect but it's better than the states.


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    #184
    YourSuperior
    Closed Accounts Posts: 65 ✭✭YourSuperior


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Indeed. My states experience is Colorado. A relatively progressive state but an American state that believes in the cult of deserving. The poor deserve it and the rich deserve it. It's very easy for someone to make it in Ireland, move to the states, do very well and see it as the land of oppertunity. I'm doing well between the UK and the states. I attribute that to my Irish education and the state's willingness to look after it's people.

    We should be proud Ireland looks after the vunerable. It's not perfect but it's better than the states.

    God, I can't help thinking - if you're from an extremely deprived background in the U.S. you really are fcuked. Life might not ever begin for you. Low education, low income, no hope - better never to have been born imo.


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    #185
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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    #186
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    Yea sounds great actually!


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    #187
    _Dara_
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,971 ✭✭✭_Dara_


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    And even being double the EU average, 80% of households do not live in that situation. I said that most people want to strive and earn more than the minimum. Nothing you have said in the post of yours I have quoted has refuted it. 80% is a large majority.

    You initially said that there is little incentive for people to strive. The statistics you yourself have provided show that there seems to be little willingness for the majority of people to down tools and live on benefits. It doesn't appear to be a very attractive proposition at all. And let's not forget that during the height of the Celtic Tiger, low income households would have been an even smaller proportion again. When plenty of work was there, unemployment was low. Do you think people have somehow become lazier in the last decade? In the last ten years, I have known so many people who were unwillingly on the dole. They got off it as soon as possible. There are likely still a lot of people on the dole who are keen to get off it, especially in rural areas where the recovery has been slower. I don't look at those stats and think "Well, 20% of households think living off the dole is a grand idea". I'd be wondering "How many of those families are doing their best to get back to full employment?".


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    #188
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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    #189
    Kimbot
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 18,490 Mod ✭✭✭✭Kimbot


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    The male work force dropping by 10% can easily be attributed to the collapse of the building trade where the majority of the workers were male.


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    #190
    MRnotlob606
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,642 ✭✭✭MRnotlob606


    Another right wing boards diartribe.


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    #191
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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    #192
    Kimbot
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 18,490 Mod ✭✭✭✭Kimbot


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    Would immigration have an effect on the figures? i.e. we took a load of immigrants in that are unable to work here due to the rules yet they would be part of the figures because they are claiming?


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    #193
    professore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,857 ✭✭✭professore


    ILikeBoats wrote: »
    I don't get it. Why would heavily subsidised childcare force both parents to work? Surely it's the opposite?

    Well if it's NOT heavily subsidised, then by 2 parents going to work, one of them will lose virtually all their salary to the higher tax band (50% of their income) and childcare and getting to work and it's associated costs will take most or all of the rest. So why would they choose to work if there is no financial benefit, and in a lot of cases, a net financial cost in it for them?


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    #194
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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    #195
    Kimbot
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 18,490 Mod ✭✭✭✭Kimbot


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    It would be intersting to see the figures on the immigrants issue, I have noticed any big decline in them infact its the opposite as far as I've witnessed.


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    #196
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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    #197
    Kimbot
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 18,490 Mod ✭✭✭✭Kimbot


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    They are only estimates tho?


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    #198
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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    #199
    Kimbot
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 18,490 Mod ✭✭✭✭Kimbot


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    Well if you open the picture in a new window you will see the link even has "populationandmigrationestimates" so they are still only estimates, I would imagine though exact figures would be hard to come by. Some immigrants do come to work and some don't because they see the state as an easy ride for handouts.


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    #200
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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    #201
    Kimbot
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 18,490 Mod ✭✭✭✭Kimbot


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    Im not saying the are the entire reason, I asked aloud would they be a factor in the difference. Just like the building trade collapse. They all could be part of the reason but not the sole reason for the decline.


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    #202
    YourSuperior
    Closed Accounts Posts: 65 ✭✭YourSuperior


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.


    Yep, thank god for off-shore financial centres.


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    #203
    con___manx1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,480 ✭✭✭con___manx1


    Wheeliebin30 wrote: »
    No no no!

    You're wrong.

    Please do some proper research on this topic.

    I wasn't far wrong 40 euro off. Stop trolling and give some constuctive posts on the subject. That's if you have any info at all.


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    #204
    Boom_Bap
    Moderators, Music Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,730 Mod ✭✭✭✭Boom_Bap


    con___manx1 wrote: »
    I wasn't far wrong 40 euro off. Stop trolling and give some constuctive posts on the subject. That's if you have any info at all.

    How about you read the rules of the forum where is forbids calling others trolls.
    Gracias.


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    #205
    skylight1987
    Registered Users Posts: 350 ✭✭skylight1987


    yes for your sense of self worth I think its better to live a good decent honest hardworking life .I have worked since I left school and never received anything for free. my elderly parents now have free medical cards and free travel and I like that my taxes go towards this .I try not to think about the scroungers that also benefit from my taxes


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    #206
    Wheeliebin30
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,593 ✭✭✭Wheeliebin30


    con___manx1 wrote: »
    I wasn't far wrong 40 euro off. Stop trolling and give some constuctive posts on the subject. That's if you have any info at all.

    I backed up on points with links and figures.

    You didn't back up your nonsense and lies with anything and then say sure I was only 40 euro out like it means nothing.

    Come back when you have researched what you want to say.


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    #207
    Mr. teddywinkles
    Registered Users Posts: 2,047 ✭✭✭Mr. teddywinkles


    Allinall wrote: »
    In that respect we're not much different to any other western country.

    Totally convinced this is part of the reason most western countries are so indebted. Ultra rich pay fook all tax as a percentage. Compared to what average Joe pays.


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    #208
    Wheeliebin30
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,593 ✭✭✭Wheeliebin30


    http://extra.ie/news/irish-news/family-of-ten-were-on-too-much-welfare-to-get-a-home

    Sure as people say here. People on welfare are struggling, sure it's a miserable old life.

    "A couple whose sole income from welfare payments totals €48,000 have taken a court case over getting pushed off the waiting list for a council house after having their eighth child"


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    #209
    Doctor Jimbob
    Registered Users Posts: 7,634 ✭✭✭Doctor Jimbob


    Wheeliebin30 wrote: »
    http://extra.ie/news/irish-news/family-of-ten-were-on-too-much-welfare-to-get-a-home

    Sure as people say here. People on welfare are struggling, sure it's a miserable old life.

    "A couple whose sole income from welfare payments totals €48,000 have taken a court case over getting pushed off the waiting list for a council house after having their eighth child"

    The fact that some people on welfare are gaming the system doesn't mean the majority, or even a significant minority, are.

    It is a miserable life. If it was the grand old time a lot of people on here want to make out, a lot more people would be at it.


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    #210
    screamer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,135 ✭✭✭screamer


    Doctor Jimbob wrote: »
    The fact that some people on welfare are gaming the system doesn't mean the majority, or even a significant minority, are.

    It is a miserable life. If it was the grand old time a lot of people on here want to make out, a lot more people would be at it.

    Rubbish those who game the system live quite comfortably being given everything for nothing. There's a huge difference between choosing to do nothing from day one and getting handed your life free gratis to people who find themselves thrown into welfare due to a job loss. People who have worked and have bills to pay because they got nothing free..... It doesn't work for people like that. BTW a married couple would have to earn about 65k before tax to have 48k net and then pay for their childcare mortgage health care etc out of that so their disposable income is a lot less.

    Lifelong Scroungers ride high in Ireland.... on the backs of those of us who work.....


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    #211
    Doctor Jimbob
    Registered Users Posts: 7,634 ✭✭✭Doctor Jimbob


    screamer wrote: »
    Rubbish those who game the system live quite comfortably being given everything for nothing. There's a huge difference between choosing to do nothing from day one and getting handed your life free gratis to people who find themselves thrown into welfare due to a job loss. People who have worked and have bills to pay because they got nothing free..... It doesn't work for people like that. BTW a married couple would have to earn about 65k before tax to have 48k net and then pay for their childcare mortgage health care etc out of that........ Scammers ride high in Ireland....on the backs of those of us who work.....

    Those who game the system do, sure. But there's an attempt on this thread to smear the majority of welfare claimants as scammers who are doing the poor workers out of their hard earned cash.


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