Is it worth living life right and by the rules

Game Face MCGee

Is it really worth it doing everything right and buy the book in current society.
I've always been a by the book person from a young age. I worked hard in school, college and in work (had my fair share of fun) and I've always been focused on medium to long term life plans.i'm from the county and went to school there. there were a lot of messers and lads who didn't take life too seriously in my class.
when studying for the leaving they were out partying, laughing and skitting at people who took it seriously.
 when I was in college they were working in unskilled roles, out partying, doing drugs, on all week benders,  
When in my mid 20s and forging my career, they were still in the same jobs or lost them in the recession but still partying etc..
now in my mid 30s and paying 50% tax on half my income I have to listen to the liberal left say I don't deserve this money and should be taxed more and these guys deserve a house, free healthcare, free travel, listen to them ****e on about how much they've been screwed by the government, watch them protest water charges , all while they are still partying and generally not taking life seriously cos they have been screwed by "bankers and developers"

DEFTLEFTHAND

You have your dignity.

People respect you, not them.

Permabear

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Ubbquittious

Sometimes you just have to throw this ethics sh1t out the window, mate.
It just aint worth the bother

There is a pecking order and to a certain extent there is a market for guilt, guilt tripping and the like. Notice how the whole carbon footprint thing took a back seat for economic reasons from 2008-2016 and is now making a resurgence. There will always be a certain demographic of people shouting at everyone else about how they're doing it all wrong and after identity politics, environmentalism, vegetarianism and those have run their course or they have converted everyone there will be a new thing that we're all supposed to feel guilty for doing.

737max

I figured that in Ireland if I were to have kids and wanted them to prosper the qualities they would have to develop would turn them in to people I would not like to know. I left.

Alf Veedersane

Permabear wrote: »

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Aside from self respect.

Hollister11

Varadkar is going to sort this scroungers out, just wait.

I can't wait for it. I'm sick of people moamimg about everything wrong with the country, but don't contribute via tax, or get off their arse and run for their local council and try to make a change.

riffmongous

This was a paid political broadcast on behalf of the Republican Party

realdanbreen

Game Face MCGee wrote: »

Is it really worth it doing everything right and buy the book in current society.
I've always been a by the book person from a young age. I worked hard in school, college and in work (had my fair share of fun) and I've always been focused on medium to long term life plans.i'm from the county and went to school there. there were a lot of messers and lads who didn't take life too seriously in my class.
when studying for the leaving they were out partying, laughing and skitting at people who took it seriously.
when I was in college they were working in unskilled roles, out partying, doing drugs, on all week benders,
When in my mid 20s and forging my career, they were still in the same jobs or lost them in the recession but still partying etc..
now in my mid 30s and paying 50% tax on half my income I have to listen to the liberal left say I don't deserve this money and should be taxed more and these guys deserve a house, free healthcare, free travel, listen to them ****e on about how much they've been screwed by the government, watch them protest water charges , all while they are still partying and generally not taking life seriously cos they have been screwed by "bankers and developers"

Now that you have 'forged your career' would you not be better off enjoying your life and not letting yourself be affected by what others say and do?

Agricola

Ireland had full employment during the boom. During the financial crisis and subsequent recession, (which was no fault of yours or your partying mates) unemployment sky rocketed. Now we are getting back on an even keel, and we are returning to full employment again.

The way rabid right wingers go on about it, you'd swear we had a culture in Ireland where a third to half of people in the state were depending solely on the other 2/3 to half, to keep them in flat screen tvs.

If you have a problem with all the state supports for elderly medical cards, free GP for kids, all the entitlements single mums get etc, then fine. I personally prefer to live in a country which doesnt have a massive, corrosive and highly noticeable divide between the haves and the have nots.

Game Face MCGee

Game Face MCGee wrote: »

Is it really worth it doing everything right and buy the book in current society.
I've always been a by the book person from a young age. I worked hard in school, college and in work (had my fair share of fun) and I've always been focused on medium to long term life plans.i'm from the county and went to school there. there were a lot of messers and lads who didn't take life too seriously in my class.
when studying for the leaving they were out partying, laughing and skitting at people who took it seriously.
 when I was in college they were working in unskilled roles, out partying, doing drugs, on all week benders,  
When in my mid 20s and forging my career, they were still in the same jobs or lost them in the recession but still partying etc..
now in my mid 30s and paying 50% tax on half my income I have to listen to the liberal left say I don't deserve this money and should be taxed more and these guys deserve a house, free healthcare, free travel, listen to them ****e on about how much they've been screwed by the government, watch them protest water charges , all while they are still partying and generally not taking life seriously cos they have been screwed by "bankers and developers"

Yes in terms that you are able to do things that others cannot by having a career etc.
But in many cases being nice and good all the time also does not equal much. I had my car taken from me recently as for some reason it came up as not insured ( it was all up to date). i was asked by a member of the Guards to leave it at the side of the road.
Cue being treated with no respect of and form of common sense for 6 hours while it was sorted, which it was.

Permabear

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SEPT 23 1989

noaddedsugar

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

So why don't we pay everyone a decent wage then? Someone has to do care work and childcare for example, both of those are low paid. If everyone 'makes an effort to earn a decent wage' then who is going to do these jobs?

realdanbreen

noaddedsugar wrote: »

So why don't we pay everyone a decent wage then? Someone has to do care work and childcare for example, both of those are low paid. If everyone 'makes an effort to earn a decent wage' then who is going to do these jobs?

You're kidding right? Why would we pay a decent wage when there are foreigners that we can exploit? After all we are the land of Saints & Scholars.

jmayo

Agricola wrote: »

Ireland had full employment during the boom.

Actually we had over 80,000-100,000 unemployed during the height of the boom and I am not talking about sick, disabled, etc.
Technically I think it is still seen as full employment, but that 80,000 plus should have had all entitlements removed because they should have been working as there were jobs there as was evidenced by number of immigrants who were in the country working.

Agricola wrote: »

During the financial crisis and subsequent recession, (which was no fault of yours or your partying mates) unemployment sky rocketed. Now we are getting back on an even keel, and we are returning to full employment again.

The way rabid right wingers go on about it, you'd swear we had a culture in Ireland where a third to half of people in the state were depending solely on the other 2/3 to half, to keep them in flat screen tvs.

If you have a problem with all the state supports for elderly medical cards, free GP for kids, all the entitlements single mums get etc, then fine. I personally prefer to live in a country which doesnt have a massive, corrosive and highly noticeable divide between the haves and the have nots.

The "haves nots" in Ireland are often not some poor down on their luck sorts, but perennial scroungers who have never worked a day in their lives yet believe they are entitled to what the haves have to god damn work hard for and make sacrifices.

There is nothing wrong and it is laudable to help the elderly, those less fortunate such as the sick, the disabled, those who find themselves made redundant or out of work through no fault of their own, but there is a lot wrong with helping the leeching class who set out intentionally to never bother trying to help themselves.

Of course the usual excuses are that they come from a disadvantaged area or some such.
About the only thing a lot of them do is turn to crime, yo-yo-ing between jail and the labour exchange and their sole contribution to society is to breed another generation of spongers.

Another class of people in Ireland who show scant regard for the rules are the connected ones, often highly educated and indeed hard working, but who appear to believe that taxes, laws and financial responsibilities are things for the little people.

One of the ways I conceptualised this is: having choices in life, a nice environment, interesting work being able to invest in your children, and actuley living instead of merely existing will always trump week long benders and drugs. I know in the long run I will always have it better.

Plus I tend not obsesses about how other live.

ScumLord

Game Face MCGee wrote: »

now in my mid 30s and paying 50% tax on half my income I have to listen to the liberal left say I don't deserve this money and should be taxed more and these guys deserve a house, free healthcare, free travel, listen to them ****e on about how much they've been screwed by the government, watch them protest water charges , all while they are still partying and generally not taking life seriously cos they have been screwed by "bankers and developers"

You do realise you're not talking about real people here, you're lumping generations of people that have partied into one lump of party people that only party and do nothing else. What your describing is a tabloid character made up to annoy people like you.

noaddedsugar wrote: »

So why don't we pay everyone a decent wage then? Someone has to do care work and childcare for example, both of those are low paid. If everyone 'makes an effort to earn a decent wage' then who is going to do these jobs?

Because that's what people are willing to pay, if people wanted to pay more for things like childcare more companie would offer a more expensive service. No one decides these prices it's what the market will bare.

griffin100

Agricola wrote: »

If you have a problem with all the state supports for elderly medical cards, free GP for kids, all the entitlements single mums get etc, then fine. I personally prefer to live in a country which doesnt have a massive, corrosive and highly noticeable divide between the haves and the have nots.

Why shouldn't there be a noticeable divide between the haves and the have nots? If there wasn't why would anyone bother to work or better themselves? There's nothing wrong with inequality. If you work hard you should have more than those who don't. I believe that the state should support those who need support via social welfare and similar so that they can have a decent standard of living, but it should always pay you to work.

NinetyTwoTeam

I know sure them on the dole get free phones, free travel, can retire on massive pensions well before retirement age, make well over the average wage and don't even have to go to work half the year, and...

They get free pints all the while
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/unpaid-dáil-bar-bills-written-off-over-failure-to-settle-tabs-1.3171521?mode=amp

Oh, wait, sorry, that's our government. But sure give them a break, it's not like they are the ones who ran the country down, that was the people on the dole. Oh wait, we had nearly full employment before the recession. Crap, now I gotta find a way to pin the recession on the unemployed. This might take a while... In the meantime I'll go into town and spend some of your money OP. Cheers!

Lux23

Having tried to survive on the dole I am more than happy to work full-time for the choices and freedom I have in life. Sure looking at my payslip makes me slightly annoyed when I see a quarter of the money I have earned disappear into the ether but I think I am a lot better off than then the yokes I see standing outside the Post Office waiting to collect their dole.

Lux23

Permabear wrote: »

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I don't see that as being unfair at all. It seems to be perfectly fair.

NinetyTwoTeam

griffin100 wrote: »

Why shouldn't there be a noticeable divide between the haves and the have nots? If there wasn't why would anyone bother to work or better themselves? There's nothing wrong with inequality. If you work hard you should have more than those who don't. I believe that the state should support those who need support via social welfare and similar so that they can have a decent standard of living, but it should always pay you to work.

If you think all the haves in this country got there by hard work, there's no point even trying to argue with you. Hundreds of thousands of people work very hard and can't even earn a living wage, all the worst jobs are minimum wage! If you can't get a degree in a tech, medical, engineering or finance field you're never going to get a decent wage, unless you get a public sector job. Even nurses get crap money here, as do teachers.

You think the haves in this country are going to let you into their club because you are a good little worker bee? They're laughing at you!

noaddedsugar

griffin100 wrote: »

Why shouldn't there be a noticeable divide between the haves and the have nots? If there wasn't why would anyone bother to work or better themselves? There's nothing wrong with inequality. If you work hard you should have more than those who don't. I believe that the state should support those who need support via social welfare and similar so that they can have a decent standard of living, but it should always pay you to work.

How do you define working hard? Is a care worker on minimum wage working less hard than an accountant?

NinetyTwoTeam

NinetyTwoTeam wrote: »

If you think all the haves in this country got there by hard work, there's no point even trying to argue with you. Hundreds of thousands of people work very hard and can't even earn a living wage, all the worst jobs are minimum wage! If you can't get a degree in a tech, medical, engineering or finance field you're never going to get a decent wage, unless you get a public sector job. Even nurses get crap money here, as do teachers.

You think the haves in this country are going to let you into their club because you are a good little worker bee? They're laughing at you!

Minimum wage job are not jobs for life, if you have a family you will get family income supplement.

davo2001

NinetyTwoTeam wrote: »

If you think all the haves in this country got there by hard work, there's no point even trying to argue with you. Hundreds of thousands of people work very hard and can't even earn a living wage, all the worst jobs are minimum wage! If you can't get a degree in a tech, medical, engineering or finance field you're never going to get a decent wage, unless you get a public sector job. Even nurses get crap money here, as do teachers.

You think the haves in this country are going to let you into their club because you are a good little worker bee? They're laughing at you!

So what is stopping these people getting a degree in said field? Or is that someone elses fault also?

Zubeneschamali

Game Face MCGee wrote: »

now in my mid 30s and paying 50% tax on half my income

a) No, you aren't.

b) If you pay the top rate on half your income, you are earning more than €67K. Why are you worried about a few wasters on the dole? What are they making - €10K total?

donegaLroad

Life is not fair OP, and it can be particularly hard to take when we live in a country where for example, the children's hospital ran out of money and has to rely on fundraising programs put on by the parents... because a handful of people pissed all the money up against the wall a few years ago, and rode off into the sunset. The devil will always look after his own flock I suppose.

The best you can hope for is that you will have good health, and that you are in a job that brings you some level of satisfaction, and that you have a happy relationship with someone. Otherwise you could end up living an unfulfilled and unhappy life .

noaddedsugar

noaddedsugar wrote: »

How do you define working hard? Is a care worker on minimum wage working less hard than an accountant?

Why do you think they would be on minuminum wage? I know its not a huge wage but.
https://ie.indeed.com/cmp/Castle-Homecare/jobs/Health-Care-Assistant-dde78b341ee9f8c9?sjdu=bsHl8fCfbNbK6HKKflGFJgd6Ru_9X4wZtI5tjKfltZBWvfC6plTxDx7J5lf7Ub0sa

Permabear

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Permabear

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noaddedsugar

mariaalice wrote: »

Why do you think they would be on minuminum wage? I know its not a huge wage but.
https://ie.indeed.com/cmp/Castle-Homecare/jobs/Health-Care-Assistant-dde78b341ee9f8c9?sjdu=bsHl8fCfbNbK6HKKflGFJgd6Ru_9X4wZtI5tjKfltZBWvfC6plTxDx7J5lf7Ub0sa

Ok, is a care assistant on 11e(going by indeed thats the going rate where I live) an hour less hardworking than an accountant?

Permabear

Permabear wrote: »

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Where is this paradise.

I would not have take you for one of the 'Its always better somewhere else' brigade.

Permabear

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noaddedsugar

noaddedsugar wrote: »

Ok, is a care assistant on 11e(going by indeed thats the going rate where I live) an hour less hardworking than an accountant?

Of course care work is psychically harder.

SterlingArcher

Game Face MCGee wrote: »

watch them protest water charges all while they are still partying and generally not taking life seriously cos they have been screwed by "bankers and developers"

I know you were making a point about these people that are bothering you.

But didn't it cross your mind that the very same people directly involved in these examples you laid out are pretty much granted freedom from personal responsibility and consequences. Still partying not taking it all serious.

Just thought was funny is all.

Cee-Jay-Cee

I have to agree with you OP, as far as I can see the less you do in this country the more you get. Every branch of society bows to those who make the most noise, and those who make the most noise are the wasters and losers with nothing else to do in their life. It is sickening to think that the tax I pay is being handed out freely to complete wasters who have never contributed one iota to society but saying all that I wouldn't swap places with them.

Say it one of those fabled lone parents that AH can be fond of and they work 30 hours a week 30 x 11 = 330 euro, however.

If you have: one child and your weekly family income is less than: €511, you will be entitled to FIS. It not a huge amount of money but the issue is not as simple as people slaving for a pittance.

draiochtanois

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NinetyTwoTeam

mariaalice wrote: »

Minimum wage job are not jobs for life, if you have a family you will get family income supplement.

Go into a call centre and remind all the workers of that, so. Tell them where all the better jobs are that they should be doing instead.

The whole, minimum wage jobs are just for starting off is nowhere near the reality in this country. If it was, we wouldn't have articles like this in the newspaper
http://www.thejournal.ie/readme/life-on-the-minimum-i-am-on-antidepressants-to-help-me-cope-3515670-Jul2017/

And we wouldn't have to be constantly increasing it, either, if it was just young people. The reason the low pay commission advised us to bring it up is because so many people are on it.

_Kaiser_

Hollister11 wrote: »

Varadkar is going to sort this scroungers out, just wait.

I can't wait for it.

You'll be waiting. Varadkar talks a good game (and thus wins over the FG faithful) but what of note has he achieved in either of the two ministries he's held to date?

With Enda Kenny it was all about his self-imagined "legacy", but Leo is all about populist soundbites - usually about someone ELSE's brief.

He'll do fook all, except maybe trivial (by comparison) things like minimum alcohol pricing. Don't forget he is head of a fairly shaky Government that only governs with the consent of the party he and his made electable again!

Agricola wrote: »

I personally prefer to live in a country which doesnt have a massive, corrosive and highly noticeable divide between the haves and the have nots.

I agree with the sentiment, but that divide you speak of is very much present in Ireland today - and it's not between the unemployed and the employed, or the public sector and private sector - although politicians and media do love to pit those groups against each other to distract from the real issues in this country... the waste, corruption and old boys network that passes for a Government, upper civil service, and private/semi-state entities that piss away millions (or more) of taxpayer monies every year.

But the general Irish populace is too busy fighting over the scraps and blaming each other to see this for the most part, so the gravy train rolls on at ALL our expense.

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Aside from self respect.

Self-respect is grand and all, but it doesn't pay the bills, put a roof over your head, or keep a car on the road so you can get to a job where you lose up to half of it in return for pretty much nothing these days.

Game Face MCGee

ScumLord wrote: »

Game Face MCGee wrote: »

now in my mid 30s and paying 50% tax on half my income I have to listen to the liberal left say I don't deserve this money and should be taxed more and these guys deserve a house, free healthcare, free travel, listen to them ****e on about how much they've been screwed by the government, watch them protest water charges , all while they are still partying and generally not taking life seriously cos they have been screwed by "bankers and developers"

 You do realise you're not talking about real people here, you're lumping generations of people that have partied into one lump of party people that only party and do nothing else. What your describing is a tabloid character made up to annoy people like you.

noaddedsugar wrote: »

So why don't we pay everyone a decent wage then? Someone has to do care work and childcare for example, both of those are low paid. If everyone 'makes an effort to earn a decent wage' then who is going to do these jobs?

Because that's what people are willing to pay, if people wanted to pay more for things like childcare more companie would offer a more expensive service. No one decides these prices it's what the market will bare.

yeah maybe I've over exaggerated the "party" element to these lads lives but I can assure you I know a lot of these guys and talked to them when I've gone home for weekends. they've reached their mid 30s and achieved nothing but complain that its the government, bankers, developers faults. its as plain as day its their own fault for not applying themselves in their youth but now they've kids and need a house etc..  and somehow I'm jammy/lucky git

noaddedsugar

Permabear wrote: »

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'We' is society, 'we' could up minimum wage to a proper living wage, then everyone would be able to afford to pay tax and whiners could shut up whining.

Yes and many low paid childcare workers are at breaking point paying for childcare also. I'm not sure why you think 'middle class' families are more important?

Permabear

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draiochtanois

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listermint

Very much a thread fail.

As soon as seen liberal in the post I just went.

Ugh another sad case

mitresize5

noaddedsugar wrote: »

I'm not sure why you think 'middle class' families are more important?

Shucks I don't know - Cause we pay for the running of the country maybe?

tayto lover

Permabear wrote: »

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.... and who pays the extra?

mitresize5

tayto lover wrote: »

.... and who pays the extra?

you do of course!!

who did you think payed for it :-)

NinetyTwoTeam

davo2001 wrote: »

So what is stopping these people getting a degree in said field? Or is that someone elses fault also?

Sure, what's stopping you from becoming a brain surgeon, or Taoiseach, or a professional footballer? Don't tell me you're slaving away for an middling wage when you could be doing one of those jobs. Pure silliness, like.

You're right of course, just head to college and you'll be grand, hardly any recent grads end up on the dole, and there's no barriers to 3rd level education, we still have free fees and the grants have never been cut down to the bone. Oh wait... I'm still in 2004, sorry

tayto lover

mitresize5 wrote: »

you do of course!!

who did you think payed for it :-)

With PAYE, PRSI, USc etc I think i'm paying more than i'm getting already.