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Heavyweight Boxing

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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,371 ✭✭✭✭ yourdeadwright


    squinn2912 wrote: »
    squinn2912 wrote: »
    He looks to have lost quite a bit of weight but it's only going from dangerously obese to very overweight. Of course that's a big step for anyone esp with mental health issues but he has all sorts of titles for himself. It means little more than bluff until he actually fights then we can decide. There was similar talk before the Wlad rematch that never came about. If he he's back to his prime then I think he can take them all but if he doesn't then it's just a payday to get ko'd.
    It's interesting that all of the main contenders have question marks on their records
    I think the something that ruins boxing is fighters trying to keep there 0 ,
    It seems to be such a big thing these days that fighters do not take tuff fights but always look for the easy fight, back in the day people like Steve Colins went and fought the top at a young age and developed that way and became great fighters, Now its all nonsense fight nobodies unless its a massive pay day

    I completely agree with you! There's some amount of dirt even in the HW division walking about with a paper 0. Even then though Eubank and Benn were rather protected while Collins was in batter session in America. Then he kicked the lining out of both. It's thrown at wilder often that he fought a lot of opponents outside the top 30! Though there are other factors to the story. Avoiding hard fights isn't new.
    I just think its the time's we live in, Its become a joke iv said it time and time again, AJ has fought one live fighter and he was a 40 year old who handn't fought in 2 years and lost his last fight but some how AJ is built up as the greatest Heavy weight since Ali ,


  • Registered Users Posts: 48,009 ✭✭✭✭ walshb


    I just think its the time's we live in, Its become a joke iv said it time and time again, AJ has fought one live fighter and he was a 40 year old who handn't fought in 2 years and lost his last fight but some how AJ is built up as the greatest Heavy weight since Ali ,

    That's just hype and Sky and Hearn.

    AJ is elite today. Probably the best on earth......He can only be the best for his era....

    Other than Wilder I don't seen anyone being considered a real threat to him.

    Ring still have Fury as champ, which is just plain stupid....but that is RING and their stupid lineal nonsense.

    AJ and Fury have both beaten one very good fighter. Fury in a pathetic stinkfest, and AJ in a pretty high intensity scrap where he had to actually win the fight.

    Real boxing fans aren't yet cementing AJ as an ATG, and he may never be called one. Even if he cleans out the division it may be a case of cleaning out a pretty "poor" lot of fighters.....

    Personally I don't rate AJ in an ATG sense....Probably never will, as for me his talents don't deserve to be placed that high.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,371 ✭✭✭✭ yourdeadwright


    walshb wrote: »
    I just think its the time's we live in, Its become a joke iv said it time and time again, AJ has fought one live fighter and he was a 40 year old who handn't fought in 2 years and lost his last fight but some how AJ is built up as the greatest Heavy weight since Ali ,

    That's just hype and Sky and Hearn.

    AJ is elite today. Probably the best on earth......He can only be the best for his era....

    Other than Wilder I don't seen anyone being considered a real threat to him.

    Ring still have Fury as champ, which is just plain stupid....but that is RING and their stupid lineal nonsense.

    AJ and Fury have both beaten one very good fighter. Fury in a pathetic stinkfest, and AJ in a pretty high intensity scrap where he had to actually win the fight.

    Real boxing fans aren't yet cementing AJ as an ATG, and he may never be called one. Even if he cleans out the division it may be a case of cleaning out a pretty "poor" lot of fighters.....

    Personally I don't rate AJ in an ATG sense....Probably never will, as for me his talents don't deserve to be placed that high.
    Another point of view is AJ nearly got stopped by a man 2 years out of the ring who lost his previous fight  and Tyson done it without getting a scratch to a younger man in his own back yard who hadn't been beat in years ,
    There is still a lot of better fighter's AJ could have faced already instead of the gimmies
    As to date he hasn't fought any of the world top 6 ranked fighters  , Wilder, Ortiz, Povetkin,Pulev (not his fault cancelled ) Parker (next fight)  , even Briggs would be dangerous and Fury (hes been out so not yet )
    He's being smart letting the older guys get another year or so older without fighting them , but there are some good fights in that lot and about time he starts fighting the top guys every fight,


  • Registered Users Posts: 48,009 ✭✭✭✭ walshb


    Another point of view is AJ nearly got stopped by a man 2 years out of the ring who lost his previous fight  and Tyson done it without getting a scratch to a younger man in his own back yard who hadn't been beat in years ,
    T

    I don't think that is a point of view.

    AJ did nearly get stopped because he got whacked hard by a committed Wlad who carries legit HW power. AJ still weathered the storms, stormed back and laid a beating on Wlad.

    Fury's fight.....nothing at all even happened. They tickled and messed around and hugged for 12 fooking rds....both of them...


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,371 ✭✭✭✭ yourdeadwright


    walshb wrote: »
    Another point of view is AJ nearly got stopped by a man 2 years out of the ring who lost his previous fight  and Tyson done it without getting a scratch to a younger man in his own back yard who hadn't been beat in years ,
    T

    I don't think that is a point of view.

    AJ did nearly get stopped because he got whacked hard by a committed Wlad who carries legit HW power. AJ still weathered the storms, stormed back and laid a beating on Wlad.

    Fury's fight.....nothing at all even happened. They tickled and messed around and hugged for 12 fooking rds....both of them...
    I don't think that is a point of view.

    AJ did nearly get stopped because he got whacked hard by a committed Wlad who carries legit HW power. AJ still weathered the storms, stormed back and laid a beating on Wlad.

    Fury's fight.....nothing at all even happened. They tickled and messed around and hugged for 12 fooking rds....both of them...

    How is it not a point of view ?The facts are there,

    Fury beat a 38 yearold in his own back yard who was hadn't been beaten in years and was never once in trouble

    AJ beat a 40 year old 2 years out of a ring coming off a loss, and was knocked down ,

    If you don't like Fury fair enough but you can't rewrite history , The fight went to Fury;'s game plan and he won, not Fury fault Wlad couldn't get near him ,

    How could you possible think something that happened is not a point of view ?
    Why did you think nothing happened , would you say that was Wlad game plan or that was Tyson's ?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 48,009 ✭✭✭✭ walshb


    Because I am not sure what your point of view shows or intends to mean or intends to disprove...

    You seem to have brought up the point to kind of lessen AJs win over Wlad...

    Both beat Wlad....One more convincing than the other in terms of beating Wlad up....


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,371 ✭✭✭✭ yourdeadwright


    69 fights and 21 years and no one else has ever beaten Wlad on points ,
    Wlad spent years jabbing and spoiling his way to victory against anyone who caused any ounce of a treat and Tyson figured him out and beat him at his own game ,
    But you are not impressed as he didn't;t fight the way you think he should, will ye get a grip man, He did it perfectly and it worked, im sure he'll shed a tear because he wasn't exciting enough for ye,


  • Registered Users Posts: 48,009 ✭✭✭✭ walshb


    69 fights and 21 years and no one else has ever beaten Wlad on points ,
    Wlad spent years jabbing and spoiling his way to victory against anyone who caused any ounce of a treat and Tyson figured him out and beat him at his own game ,
    But you are not impressed as he didn't;t fight the way you think he should, will ye get a grip man, He did it perfectly and it worked, im sure he'll shed a tear because he wasn't exciting enough for ye,

    True....Wlad was only ever KTFO before Fury beat him on points...

    then KTFO after Fury beat him on points....


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,371 ✭✭✭✭ yourdeadwright


    walshb wrote: »
    Because I am not sure what your point of view shows or intends to mean or intends to disprove...

    You seem to have brought up the point to kind of lessen AJs win over Wlad...

    Both beat Wlad....One more convincing than the other in terms of beating Wlad up....
    You clearly said AJ's win was impressive and Fury was pathetic .,
    Furys is way more impressive, he beat the younger, more active, 10 year unbeaten , unfigured out fighter in his back yard , without any trouble,
    AJ beat a recently
    walshb wrote: »
    69 fights and 21 years and no one else has ever beaten Wlad on points ,
    Wlad spent years jabbing and spoiling his way to victory against anyone who caused any ounce of a treat and Tyson figured him out and beat him at his own game ,
    But you are not impressed as he didn't;t fight the way you think he should, will ye get a grip man, He did it perfectly and it worked, im sure he'll shed a tear because he wasn't exciting enough for ye,

    True....Wlad was only ever KTFO before Fury beat him on points...

    then KTFO after Fury beat him on points....

     beaten , ring rusted, 40 year old, and nearly lost ,


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,371 ✭✭✭✭ yourdeadwright


    walshb wrote: »
    Because I am not sure what your point of view shows or intends to mean or intends to disprove...

    You seem to have brought up the point to kind of lessen AJs win over Wlad...

    Both beat Wlad....One more convincing than the other in terms of beating Wlad up....
    You clearly said AJ's win was impressive and Fury was pathetic .,
    Furys is way more impressive, he beat the younger, more active, 10 year unbeaten , unfigured out fighter in his back yard , without any trouble,
    AJ beat a recently beaten , ring rusted, 40 year old, and nearly lost ,


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  • Registered Users Posts: 48,009 ✭✭✭✭ walshb


    You clearly said AJ's win was impressive and Fury was pathetic .,
    Furys is way more impressive, he beat the younger, more active, 10 year unbeaten , unfigured out fighter in his back yard , without any trouble,
    AJ beat a recently


     beaten , ring rusted, 40 year old, and nearly lost ,

    Let's not pretend that Wlad aged 38 when Fury beat him was somehow so superior to the one that AJ beat...


  • Registered Users Posts: 48,009 ✭✭✭✭ walshb


    You clearly said AJ's win was impressive and Fury was pathetic .,
    Furys is way more impressive, he beat the younger, more active, 10 year unbeaten , unfigured out fighter in his back yard , without any trouble,
    AJ beat a recently beaten , ring rusted, 40 year old, and nearly lost ,

    Ok, pathetic is probably too strong a word....

    But for me his win and his display was nothing to be overly impressed with....


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,371 ✭✭✭✭ yourdeadwright


    walshb wrote: »
    69 fights and 21 years and no one else has ever beaten Wlad on points ,
    Wlad spent years jabbing and spoiling his way to victory against anyone who caused any ounce of a treat and Tyson figured him out and beat him at his own game ,
    But you are not impressed as he didn't;t fight the way you think he should, will ye get a grip man, He did it perfectly and it worked, im sure he'll shed a tear because he wasn't exciting enough for ye,

    True....Wlad was only ever KTFO before Fury beat him on points...

    then KTFO after Fury beat him on points....
    yep its true he was ko'd a few times and  years before the Fury fight but with 67 fights as a heavy weight fights your always going to get caught with a big shot now and again,
    No one out boxed him until Fury did,
    AJ out lasted a 40 yearold there's a big difference


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,371 ✭✭✭✭ yourdeadwright


    walshb wrote: »
    69 fights and 21 years and no one else has ever beaten Wlad on points ,
    Wlad spent years jabbing and spoiling his way to victory against anyone who caused any ounce of a treat and Tyson figured him out and beat him at his own game ,
    But you are not impressed as he didn't;t fight the way you think he should, will ye get a grip man, He did it perfectly and it worked, im sure he'll shed a tear because he wasn't exciting enough for ye,

    True....Wlad was only ever KTFO before Fury beat him on points...

    then KTFO after Fury beat him on points....
    yep its true he was ko'd a few times and  years before the Fury fight but with 67 fights as a heavy weight fights your always going to get caught with a big shot now and again,
    No one out boxed him until Fury did,
    AJ out lasted a 40 yearold there's a big difference


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,371 ✭✭✭✭ yourdeadwright


    walshb wrote: »
    You clearly said AJ's win was impressive and Fury was pathetic .,
    Furys is way more impressive, he beat the younger, more active, 10 year unbeaten , unfigured out fighter in his back yard , without any trouble,
    AJ beat a recently beaten , ring rusted, 40 year old, and nearly lost ,

    Ok, pathetic is probably too strong a word....

    But for me his win and his display was nothing to be overly impressed with....
    So beating a man at his own game in his own back yard who hadn't been beat in 11 years is not impressive ?
    Right so


  • Registered Users Posts: 48,009 ✭✭✭✭ walshb


    yep its true he was ko'd a few times and  years before the Fury fight but with 67 fights as a heavy weight fights your always going to get caught with a big shot now and again,
    No one out boxed him until Fury did,
    AJ out lasted a 40 yearold there's a big difference

    He didn't just outlast him, though. He took him out with punches. It was not a case of Wlad falling via ONLY exhaustion. AJ put a beating on him to close the show.

    AJ also was ahead on two of three cards at the stoppage. So, AJ was also en-route to outpointing Wlad. And deservedly so I thought.


  • Registered Users Posts: 48,009 ✭✭✭✭ walshb


    So beating a man at his own game in his own back yard who hadn't been beat in 11 years is not impressive ?
    Right so

    Just saying it like that with no depth to it, yes it's impressive. I prefer to analyse it a little more.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,371 ✭✭✭✭ yourdeadwright


    walshb wrote: »
    yep its true he was ko'd a few times and  years before the Fury fight but with 67 fights as a heavy weight fights your always going to get caught with a big shot now and again,
    No one out boxed him until Fury did,
    AJ out lasted a 40 yearold there's a big difference

    He didn't just outlast him, though. He took him out with punches. It was not a case of Wlad falling via ONLY exhaustion. AJ put a beating on him to close the show.

    AJ also was ahead on two of three cards at the stoppage. So, AJ was also en-route to outpointing Wlad. And deservedly so I thought.
    Again AJ barley survived when Wlad knocked him down, He spent the next round in survival mode, Wlad said himself he let him off the hook, This is a 40 yearold man, who hadn;t fought in 2 years,
    You said yourself the same man at 38 couldn't put a glove on Fury , U
    Unless your just into watching bar brawls or stuff like that, you should know what is the more impressive win under the boxing rule set,


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,371 ✭✭✭✭ yourdeadwright


    People are written off Tyson on the basis of two years away form the sport at 29 ,
    Wlad had two years away at 39 a whole decade older,
    Two years off in your very late 30's is not like two years in your late 20's


  • Registered Users Posts: 48,009 ✭✭✭✭ walshb


    Again AJ barley survived when Wlad knocked him down, He spent the next round in survival mode, Wlad said himself he let him off the hook, This is a 40 yearold man, who hadn;t fought in 2 years,
    You said yourself the same man at 38 couldn't put a glove on Fury , U
    Unless your just into watching bar brawls or stuff like that, you should know what is the more impressive win under the boxing rule set,

    But he did survive. That is all that matters.

    Yes, Wlad couldn't put a glove on Fury, and really, Fury couldn't put one on Wlad......

    Nothing to do with barroom brawls. I just like actual boxing and punching and connections. Shoot me....


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  • Registered Users Posts: 48,009 ✭✭✭✭ walshb


    People are written off Tyson on the basis of two years away form the sport at 29 ,
    Wlad had two years away at 39 a whole decade older,
    Two years off in your very late 30's is not like two years in your late 20's

    Wlad wasn't eating all around him and doing drugs and partying like a gangsta wannabe though.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,371 ✭✭✭✭ yourdeadwright


    walshb wrote: »
    Again AJ barley survived when Wlad knocked him down, He spent the next round in survival mode, Wlad said himself he let him off the hook, This is a 40 yearold man, who hadn;t fought in 2 years,
    You said yourself the same man at 38 couldn't put a glove on Fury , U
    Unless your just into watching bar brawls or stuff like that, you should know what is the more impressive win under the boxing rule set,

    But he did survive. That is all that matters.

    Yes, Wlad couldn't out a glove on Fury, and really, Fury couldn't out one on Wlad......

    Nothing to do with barroom brawls. I just like actual boxing and punching and connections. Shoot me....
    Its not all that matters , you are saying he was more impressive,
    Barley surviving is not more impressive,
    The Wlad v Fury fight was on Fury's terms no one could do that to Wlad before, he fought how he planned it and won with no danger,
    Aj beat the older , ring rusted man but had to go trough hell to do it,
    You like boxing but you don't find a man beating someone unbeaten in 11 years in there own back yard, at there own game impressive,
    ok pal your a real boxing purist ,


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,371 ✭✭✭✭ yourdeadwright


    If Fury was a match room fighter, People like yourself would be on here raving about the best British performance in years that night when he won in German,
    If sky doesn't mentioned it must not have been good :) 
    Fury can be a dislikeable character but stop trying to rewrite history his win was far more impressive,


  • Registered Users Posts: 48,009 ✭✭✭✭ walshb


    If Fury was a match room fighter, People like yourself would be on here raving about the best British performance in years that night when he won in German,
    If sky doesn't mentioned it must not have been good :) 
    Fury can be a dislikeable character but stop trying to rewrite history his win was far more impressive,

    A lot of assuming there!

    Get over yourself. Some people, boxing fans included weren't overly impressed.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,371 ✭✭✭✭ yourdeadwright


    walshb wrote: »
    People are written off Tyson on the basis of two years away form the sport at 29 ,
    Wlad had two years away at 39 a whole decade older,
    Two years off in your very late 30's is not like two years in your late 20's

    Wlad wasn't eating all around him and doing drugs and partying like a gangsta wannabe though.
    The Gangsta wannabe is AJ aka Femi not Fury , Ye he got fat but your discounting a decade there ,
    Look Fury is unlikeable but look at everything that goes with it and  his performance v Wlad was better than AJ's


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,371 ✭✭✭✭ yourdeadwright


    walshb wrote: »
    If Fury was a match room fighter, People like yourself would be on here raving about the best British performance in years that night when he won in German,
    If sky doesn't mentioned it must not have been good :) 
    Fury can be a dislikeable character but stop trying to rewrite history his win was far more impressive,

    A lot of assuming there!
    Can I ask you what impresses you in boxing if what Tyson done to Wlad giving the circumstances at the time didn't ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 48,009 ✭✭✭✭ walshb


    The Gangsta wannabe is AJ aka Femi not Fury , Ye he got fat but your discounting a decade there ,
    Look Fury is unlikeable but look at everything that goes with it and  his performance v Wlad was better than AJ's

    But it's Fury knocking around with MTK, not AJ...

    Anyway, way off point....


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,005 ✭✭✭ Danye


    The Gangsta wannabe is AJ aka Femi not Fury , Ye he got fat but your discounting a decade there ,
    Look Fury is unlikeable but look at everything that goes with it and  his performance v Wlad was better than AJ's

    I’d disagree with this.

    The Wlad AJ fought was a very different, aggressive man compared to the one Fury fought. If Wlad had the same aggression and willingness to throw his hands as he did in his last fight he might of stopped Fury.

    Your gauging whos better between the 2 based on their performances against Wlad, but two very different Wlads. Chalk and cheese.

    Apart from the Wlad fight, who has Fury got on his resume?

    If Fury is also so good, why didn’t he achieve much as an amateur?


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,765 ✭✭✭ Morrison J


    Danye wrote: »
    I’d disagree with this.

    The Wlad AJ fought was a very different, aggressive man compared to the one Fury fought. If Wlad had the same aggression and willingness to throw his hands as he did in his last fight he might of stopped Fury.

    If Wlad had fought aggressive against Fury he'd have more than likely got knocked out himself and he knew it.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 48,009 ✭✭✭✭ walshb


    Morrison J wrote: »
    If Wlad had fought aggressive against Fury he'd have more than likely got knocked out himself and he knew it.

    I’d hazard a guess that he’d more than likely have knocked Fury out. Fury is a piss poor power puncher. Even Wlad I reckon survives his best.


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