Heavyweight Boxing

squinn2912

AH hope not! Don’t really think he wants this though. The weekend will tell a lot

yourdeadwright

squinn2912 wrote: »

AH hope not! Don’t really think he wants this though. The weekend will tell a lot

What makes you think he doesn't want it ?
I feel if he didn't he wouldn't have gone near wilder yet,
I do feel he will suffer massively from not having Peter with him, I don't think any other top boxer would  have Ben ,
I could be a millions miles off the mark but Ben seems like a yes man and that's the opposite to what Fury needs,Even in the press conference's Fury seems to always try to disrespect him with his "banter" its like even Fury doesn't take him serious

walshb

I wonder what type of purses the lads would get?

Surely a minimum of 10 million euro/dollars/sterling each?

Littlehorny

I've never been an fan of Fury to be honest, think his skills are very overrated. I think he is trying to talk his way into a big pay day so he can get out.
Against either Joshua or Wilder even if he loses, he doesn't lose. The excuses are there for him already - the drugs, the depression, the weight gain, the 2 years of inactivity. I think him and his people know he is shot and are hoping to beat a couple of no hopers and get out with a big pay day.
Even fans of his have to admit he was terrible in his comeback fight, it will be very interesting to see what he looks like this weekend.
I'll be the first to admit that I'm biased against him as I've never seen that much from him to convince me that he is of any great quality. I only hope the boxing public are not spending their money on another con job like David Haye's last few efforts.

mada82

Yea he is foolish taking the fight so soon. He must know he’s shot or something.

Agree with the trainer too. Never heard of him before.

yourdeadwright

Littlehorny wrote: »

I've never been an fan of Fury to be honest, think his skills are very overrated.  I think he is trying to talk his way into a big pay day so he can get out.
Against either Joshua or Wilder even if he loses, he doesn't lose. The excuses are there for him already - the drugs, the depression, the weight gain, the 2 years of inactivity. I think him and his people know he is shot and are hoping to beat a couple of no hopers and get out with a big pay day.
Even fans of his have to admit he was terrible in his comeback fight,  it will be very interesting to see what he looks like this weekend.
I'll be the first to admit that I'm biased against him as I've never seen that much from him to convince me that he is of any great quality. I only hope the boxing public are not spending their money on another con job like David Haye's last few efforts.

To be fair to Fury I don't think he skills are over rated,
People hear unbeaten heavy weight and think he's a ko machine like Wilder or AJ but that's not why he gets praise,
He isn't a flashy boxer or more so a highlight real ko artist , He doesn't blow people away in there never has and never will
But he is amazing at working guys out , he is very very smart and so far has always found a way to win,,
He said himself he will barley beat some journey men but then out him in against a top class fighter and he will still find a way to get past them,
What the experts appreciate about Fury is that his boxing brain is so good he always finds away to work people out, But it is very rarely spectacular in the highlight real sense of things,
Personally I think a lot of that was down to Peter's game plans and Peters ability to pick weakness in Tyson dance partners  , So I'm very interested to see if Tyson copes without him ,

walshb

Littlehorny wrote: »

Against either Joshua or Wilder even if he loses, he doesn't lose. The excuses are there for him already - the drugs, the depression, the weight gain, the 2 years of inactivity..

His excuses or posters here?....:P

ThunderCat

But what if he wins though.

Kav11

while i like and rate fury as a boxer i honestly think when he fights wilder or AJ he wont have the power to stop them coming forward and also wont be ably to take their power shots without being knocked out.

walshb

ThunderCat wrote: »

But what if he wins though.

He won't! Hasn't a hope.

yourdeadwright

Kav11 wrote: »

while i like and rate fury as a boxer i honestly think when he fights wilder or AJ he wont have the power to stop them coming forward and also wont be ably to take their power shots without being knocked out.

He certainly has the power to earn there respect make no mistake about that, AJ  has been 100% more cautious since Wlad drop him , He Wilder hasn't fought since Ortiz dropped him so we shall see how it effected him soon enough, Would I be right in saying he will also be the first guy either has fought who will be bigger than them ?

yourdeadwright

walshb wrote: »

ThunderCat wrote: »

But what if he wins though.

He won't! Hasn't a hope.

Crazy statement, he may be beat but saying he hasn't a hope is silly
Fury will be less of an underdog against Wilder and Aj than he was against Wlad , and rightly so

Littlehorny

yourdeadwright wrote: »

To be fair to Fury I don't think he skills are over rated,
People hear unbeaten heavy weight and think he's a ko machine like Wilder or AJ but that's not why he gets praise,
He isn't a flashy boxer or more so a highlight real ko artist , He doesn't blow people away in there never has and never will
But he is amazing at working guys out , he is very very smart and so far has always found a way to win,,
He said himself he will barley beat some journey men but then out him in against a top class fighter and he will still find a way to get past them,
What the experts appreciate about Fury is that his boxing brain is so good he always finds away to work people out, But it is very rarely spectacular in the highlight real sense of things,
Personally I think a lot of that was down to Peter's game plans and Peters ability to pick weakness in Tyson dance partners  , So I'm very interested to see if Tyson copes without him ,

Some very good points there, as I said I don't rate him but you do and you highlighted what you see in him without going over the top and accessed what you see as his strengths in an honest way.
My issue with some lads is they talk about Fury like he's the second coming of Ali and I've never seen any fights were he's looked as good as some lads make out.
If this opponent is anyway decent it will tell a lot of where Fury is at because his come back fight was a farce and he looked awful in my opinion.

walshb

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Crazy statement, he may be beat but saying he hasn't a hope is silly
Fury will be less of an underdog against Wilder and Aj than he was against Wlad , and rightly so

He hasn't a hope, I tells ya....

And why I say this is because usually with HWs most would even have a punchers chance, ala Rahman vs. Lewis type job. Fury doesn't have this chance, unless my take on his punching and power is way off.

He won't really hurt either man in any significant way, and he definitely won't take their power or avoid it....

so that all leads to no hope, or as close to no hope as possible.....

BTW, if he does fight either and gets KTFO, will you still say that he had a hope, just that that hope didn't materialize?

To avoid getting KTFO:

His best chance against AJ is to stink it out and run and get soundly beaten on points...

Same for Wilder....

yourdeadwright

Littlehorny wrote: »

yourdeadwright wrote: »

To be fair to Fury I don't think he skills are over rated,
People hear unbeaten heavy weight and think he's a ko machine like Wilder or AJ but that's not why he gets praise,
He isn't a flashy boxer or more so a highlight real ko artist , He doesn't blow people away in there never has and never will
But he is amazing at working guys out , he is very very smart and so far has always found a way to win,,
He said himself he will barley beat some journey men but then out him in against a top class fighter and he will still find a way to get past them,
What the experts appreciate about Fury is that his boxing brain is so good he always finds away to work people out, But it is very rarely spectacular in the highlight real sense of things,
Personally I think a lot of that was down to Peter's game plans and Peters ability to pick weakness in Tyson dance partners  , So I'm very interested to see if Tyson copes without him ,

Some very good points there, as I said I don't rate him but you do and you highlighted what you see in him without going over the top and accessed what you see as his strengths in an honest way.
My issue with some lads is they talk about Fury like he's the second coming of Ali and I've never seen any fights were he's looked as good as some lads make out.
If this opponent is anyway decent it will tell a lot of where Fury is at because his come back fight was a farce and he looked awful in my opinion.

I'm a big fan but I realise he will not look "good" to your average casual , ( not calling you a casual )
People wana see slick , athletic , guys trying to put the other way,
Infact boxing is much simpler,   you just have to win one more round than the guys across the ring,
As long as you follow the rules set out it doesn't really matter how you do it, That s how Fury wins fighs ,
Some people hate it and that fair enough each to there own
There's a great interview somewhere with Andre Berto speaking about Floyd and he said along the lines Floyd was the first guy he fought who wasn't interested in trying to outfight or out skill him, He just wanted to do what he had to be ahead by the bell,
He said Floyd would hit him and then hold him and then say that's two for me you need to get a few back , He'd also say in the clinch looking at the clock saying only a minute and a half to go you need to hit me,  Andre said it was more of game to Floyd than a fight,

yourdeadwright

walshb wrote: »

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Crazy statement, he may be beat but saying he hasn't a hope is silly
Fury will be less of an underdog against Wilder and Aj than he was against Wlad , and rightly so

He hasn't a hope, I tells ya....

And why I say this is because usually with HWs most would even have a punchers chance, ala Rahman vs. Lewis type job. Fury doesn't have this chance, unless my take on his punching and power is way off.

He won't really hurt either man in any significant way, and he definitely won't take their power or avoid it....

so that all leads to no hope, or as close to no hope as possible.....

BTW, if he does fight either and gets KTFO, will you still say that he had a hope, just that that hope didn't materialize?

To avoid getting KTFO:

His best chance against AJ is to stink it out and run and get soundly beaten on points...

Same for Wilder....

When he fought Wlad in Germany everyone and there dog said he needed to ko him, Wlad was the decision king
Fury didn't ko him and he still won ,
AJ been fighting scared since Wlad floored him,
Wilder can punch we know that but can he take one ?  Would he beat Fury on points ?
All very still up in the air, IM not saying Fury wins there 50/50 fights
All I'm saying to say he has no chance at all is downright stupid,
Also question remains if Fury can't punch why was Wlad scared to open up against him and not AJ ? Serious question'

walshb

yourdeadwright wrote: »

When he fought Wlad in Germany everyone and there dog said he needed to ko him, Wlad was the decision king
Fury didn't ko him and he still won ,
AJ been fighting scared since Wlad floored him,
Wilder can punch we know that but can he take one ?  Would he beat Fury on points ?
All very still up in the air, IM not saying Fury wins there 50/50 fights
All I'm saying to say he has no chance at all is downright stupid,
Also question remains if Fury can't punch why was Wlad scared to open up against him and not AJ ? Serious question'

I'll get back to you when Fury is knocked out by one or both and then ask how stupid I am....

yourdeadwright

walshb wrote: »

yourdeadwright wrote: »

When he fought Wlad in Germany everyone and there dog said he needed to ko him, Wlad was the decision king
Fury didn't ko him and he still won ,
AJ been fighting scared since Wlad floored him,
Wilder can punch we know that but can he take one ?  Would he beat Fury on points ?
All very still up in the air, IM not saying Fury wins there 50/50 fights
All I'm saying to say he has no chance at all is downright stupid,
Also question remains if Fury can't punch why was Wlad scared to open up against him and not AJ ? Serious question'

I'll get back to you when Fury is knocked out by one or both and then ask how stupid I am....

That's fair enough,
I guess you'll be putting a few thousand quid on it seen as he has zero chance,

walshb

yourdeadwright wrote: »

That's fair enough,
I guess you'll be putting a few thousand quid on it seen as he has zero chance,

Won't be putting any money on it...

Just be hugely surprised if he is even any way competitive.....

By competitive I mean has a decent chance at winning.

He could, as I said, run and spoil and stink the joint out and loses clearly on points....

My pick is on him getting knocked out by both...

yourdeadwright

walshb wrote: »

yourdeadwright wrote: »

That's fair enough,
I guess you'll be putting a few thousand quid on it seen as he has zero chance,

Won't be putting any money on it...

Just be hugely surprised if he is even any way competitive.....

By competitive I mean has a decent chance at winning.

He could, as I said, run and spoil and stink the joint out and loses clearly on points....

My pick is on him getting knocked out by both...

Can't see AJ knocking him out . He hasn't been the same since the Wlad fight, He doesn't come forward like he did,
Wilder could knock anyone out so ye that defo possible,
I think Fury beats AJ,  I think Wilder is the toughest fight 60/40 in Wilder's favour ,
Fury defo has the ability to beat both will he ? Who knows

normanoffside

If Fury has no chance against Wilder this year then there is great money to be made off the bookies. Paddy Power has it as an even money fight:
5/6 Wilder
10/11 Fury

Morrison J

Fury has more ways of winning than Wilder does. Wilder isn't outboxing Fury. Artur Spitzka was outboxing Wilder for 9 rounds..

Wilder can be beaten on any given night by even a B level heavyweight.

I reckon Fury points is likely but a Fury KO late on would in no way surprise me if Wilder was to open up knowing he's getting soundly beaten.

That's if Fury is anywhere near his best btw. His comeback fight wasn't the best look. I'd like to see him take it seriously this weekend.

Sprinter Sacre

I'd be shocked if Joshua beat a fit and healthy Fury. Joshua doesn't have one punch power and Fury doesn't get hit too often to crease over. That coupled with the fact Dillian Whyte made more of a dent on Joseph Parker than Joshua did shows his power is really overrated, even more so now that he's scared sh*tless to get reckless and follow through. If Fury puts on an exhibition this weekend I'd be 100% confident he beats Joshua.

Wilder is a different story. Wilder can end a fight at any given time and because he is so unorthodox and long even a guy with elite movement like Fury might not be able to avoid him for 12 rounds, especially as the longer the fight goes on and the more desperate Wilder gets, the more dangerous he is.

walshb

And if AJ does beat Fury will it only be because Fury wasn’t fit and healthy?

I think it’s a bit naïve to think AJ doesn’t have one punch power.

Not claiming him as the heaviest single shot hitter ever, but he can generate enough power to really hurt Fury...really, as in drop him or hurt him to the point where Fury is kind out out of it..

megadodge

Morrison J wrote: »

Fury has more ways of winning than Wilder does. Wilder isn't outboxing Fury. Artur Spitzka was outboxing Wilder for 9 rounds..

Wilder can be beaten on any given night by even a B level heavyweight.

I reckon Fury points is likely but a Fury KO late on would in no way surprise me if Wilder was to open up knowing he's getting soundly beaten.

That's if Fury is anywhere near his best btw. His comeback fight wasn't the best look. I'd like to see him take it seriously this weekend.

Thank God somebody can see past the 'wow power' angle!

Wilder is completely incapable of outboxing anybody not called Bermaine Stiverne, who is nearly 6 inches shorter than him and has concrete feet.

Wilder is used to being the bigger man, but against Fury he will be facing a bigger man who knows how to use his height and reach. Plus Fury is an expert feinter and given how petrified Wilder fights (flinching badly if anybody throws a punch even within two feet of him), I can envision Wilder being even more all over the place every time Fury feints. His composure is extremely suspect at the best of times, but Jesus I suspect he will absolutely stink the place out against Fury as he just won't know when Fury is actually going to throw a punch or just feint, so he'll just keep moving for as long as he can while losing round after round. All of which will suit Fury.

As for Wilder's so-called unpredictability - huh? He has the most predictable 1-2 in boxing. He moves backwards in all his fights obviously scared sh*tless of getting hit by anything, until somebody gets in close and then he just lashes out with wild swings which usually includes at least one decent uppercut. Having bad technique and no composure does not mean unpredictable.

Fury will keep his distance with his far-superior jab and judgment of distance and feint Wilder into a panicky tizzy. Wilder will not have a clue how to close the distance while constantly moving away for fear of getting hit. Rinse and repeat for 12 rounds.

megadodge

As for the absolutely ridiculous notion that Joshua is now 'fighting scared' since the Klitchko fight, reminds me of the time Mike Tyson went the distance in two early title defenses against Bonecruscher Smith and Tony Tucker. All of a sudden, Tyson's power was 'overrated', he 'ran out of ideas', despite the fact that he was facing two fighters who were very durable and fought just to survive.

Parker is the quickest heavy out there and when he decided to move for 12 rounds, while obviously losing the fight, this suddenly translates into Joshua being 'scared sh*tless'. Huh? If Parker fought Joshua the way he fought Whyte ie. right in front of him, I think he'd have got stopped from the accumulative effect of all the punches he took.

Takam fought bravely, but lost every round before the premature stoppage. Do people think it would be a good idea for Joshua to get up close and personal with a much shorter boxer when you're winning easily from distance. Joshua beat him handily and landed a lot of punches on a durable opponent and this translates to 'scared'.

Seriously?

There is only one world champion boxer I've ever seen who boxes 'scared' and looks 'scared sh*tless' every time he's in the ring - and that's Deontay Wilder!
Surely I'm not the only person to have noticed this?

walshb

Bravo on addressing the AJ fighting scared since Wlad..

I had’t the energy yesterday to fight that. It makes no sense whatsoever..

walshb

The take on Wilder is even more absurd...

Who are these B level heavyweights who beat him on any given night?

He’s 40/0 with 39 KOs, and I could be wrong, but none were ever ahead on points before getting knocked out..

The best he has faced, an elite ranked Ortiz, who is far from B level, and he too was down on the cards at the time of the KO

yourdeadwright

megadodge wrote: »

As for the absolutely ridiculous notion that Joshua is now 'fighting scared' since the Klitchko fight, reminds me of the time Mike Tyson went the distance in two early title defenses against Bonecruscher Smith and Tony Tucker. All of a sudden, Tyson's power was 'overrated', he 'ran out of ideas', despite the fact that he was facing two fighters who were very durable and fought just to survive.

Parker is the quickest heavy out there and when he decided to move for 12 rounds, while obviously losing the fight, this suddenly translates into Joshua being 'scared sh*tless'. Huh? If Parker fought Joshua the way he fought Whyte ie. right in front of him, I think he'd have got stopped from the accumulative effect of all the punches he took.

Takam fought bravely, but lost every round before the premature stoppage. Do people think it would be a good idea for Joshua to get up close and personal with a much shorter boxer when you're winning easily from distance. Joshua beat him handily and landed a lot of punches on a durable opponent and this translates to 'scared'.

Seriously?

There is only one world champion boxer I've ever seen who boxes 'scared' and looks 'scared sh*tless' every time he's in the ring - and that's Deontay Wilder!
Surely I'm not the only person to have noticed this?

I don't think he is fighting scared but he certainly isn't as willing to sit in the pocket and exchange, its quite obvious, before and during the Wlad fight he was prepared to stand in the pocket and take a shot one to land one, His last two fights are the first two fights he hasn't done that ,
It is possible that because of styles but we shall see in his next fight ,

yourdeadwright

walshb wrote: »

The take on Wilder is even more absurd...

Who are these B level heavyweights who beat him on any given night?

He’s 40/0 with 39 KOs, and I could be wrong, but none were ever ahead on points before getting knocked out..

The best he has faced, an elite ranked Ortiz, who is far from B level, and he too was down on the cards at the time of the KO

Wilder was ahead on the official cards but I think everyone else was seeing it as Ortiz ahead of a draw at least,
But I do think Ortiz is very very underrated, He is very slick and also a guy who all the top heavy weight avoid, Its a pity he isn't younger or he'd be right up there,
To be fair he is the only close to top fighter Wilder has fought and Wilder did struggle at times but got the job done in the end  ,
 Would AJ or Fury tire like Ortiz I don't think so .,