Apple Athenry data centre

ezstreet5

1641 wrote: »

Whether in is in Athenry, Aalborg or Anchorage these data hungry centres are going to be built. And it is not just data centres. The factors contributing to climate change know no international boundaries. The debate around this is farcial and ideological rather than practical. Are people really going to change their lifestyles drastically - in the way that is required to reduce energy and natural resource demand?

As regards our 2050 committments - why is nuclear generation ruled taboo even as an agenda topic in this country? Ironically those most vocal in shutting this down are those who most loudly proclaim their concerns about climate change. I am not suggesting the concerns themselves are not valid but they need to be open to all options. Wind alone is not going to do it.

https://www.rte.ie/brainstorm/2019/0502/1047031-is-it-time-for-ireland-to-give-nuclear-power-a-chance/
https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/specialreports/is-ireland-ready-to-take-on-the-nuclear-option-to-tackle-climate-change-941773.html

The argument that "Data centres must be built somewhere" was only valid prior to renewable energy mandates. In that bygone era, market forces would predict that the new demand would be met by the cheapest new supply, which would likely be additional coal-fired power plants.

But today, we live in the age of "boutique power." Electricity is no longer fungible - it matters how it was produced. This has nothing to do with science, or melting ice caps, or polar bears. It as to do with laws and regulations, and the cost of compliance with the same. And especially, the fundamental question - who is going to pay the premium for our boutique energy supply?

If data centres are not willing to adopt waste heat recovery, district heating, immersion cooling, or funding of new (unsubsidised) renewable generation, then the cost of compliance is shifted to the Exchequer.

If Ireland were able to collect an equitable Corporation Tax from data centres, this might still be a good deal as the Government could (in theory) develop new renewables on behalf of data centres using their extra revenue. But we don't collect adequate Corporation Tax. Rather, we subsidise them from day one by paying half of their grid connection costs, to the point where there is no transmission capacity available in the east. This, in turn, requires further public expenditure in the form of additional (and ever-popular) interconnectors.

And finally, nuclear is not considered renewable energy under the current regulatory scheme.

1641

threeball wrote: »

And finally, nuclear is not considered renewable energy under the current regulatory scheme.

OK, So it is not considered a renewable energy source. But it is a non-carbon energy source. Not an expert, but I understand that France has the lowest proportionate use of carbon for electricity in Europe because of its developed nuclear sources.


Elctricity is only one source of our emissions but it is an important one. We should be at least putting nuclear on the table as one element of de-carbonising our electricity generation and supply. Electrifying the transport fleet is only going to increase demand.

Greaney

1641 wrote: »

Whether in is in Athenry, Aalborg or Anchorage these data hungry centres are going to be built. And it is not just data centres. The factors contributing to climate change know no international boundaries. The debate around this is farcial and ideological rather than practical. Are people really going to change their lifestyles drastically - in the way that is required to reduce energy and natural resource demand?

As regards our 2050 committments - why is nuclear generation ruled taboo even as an agenda topic in this country? Ironically those most vocal in shutting this down are those who most loudly proclaim their concerns about climate change. I am not suggesting the concerns themselves are not valid but they need to be open to all options. Wind alone is not going to do it.

https://www.rte.ie/brainstorm/2019/0502/1047031-is-it-time-for-ireland-to-give-nuclear-power-a-chance/
https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/specialreports/is-ireland-ready-to-take-on-the-nuclear-option-to-tackle-climate-change-941773.html

1) If it's not built in Ireland, we won't have to subsidise the grid upgrade, the enviromental fines, the firesale of Irish woodlands
2)If we designed and planned better for the few we have we could, position them near infrasturcture to service them, district heat our cities, offset our emmissions.

Just sayin', we're payin' :rolleyes:

Ardent

So there you have it. Amazon's Mulhuddart DC will be circa 26 hectares in size and will employ 30 people. Count 'em: 3 - 0.

Athenry dodged a bullet, yet many there still bemoan how Apple would have "put the town on the map", boosted tourism (honestly!), and so on.

Greaney

Ardent wrote: »

So there you have it. Amazon's Mulhuddart DC will be circa 26 hectares in size and will employ 30 people. Count 'em: 3 - 0.

Athenry dodged a bullet, yet many there still bemoan how Apple would have "put the town on the map", boosted tourism (honestly!), and so on.

There's none so blind that will not see.... even our politicians are easily starstruck, which isn't a good omen when 'striking a deal'...

salmocab

26 hectares is presumably the size of the land parcel?

cnocbui

The Athenry data centre was cancelled by Apple because they no longer wanted it. Peak smartphone and falling iPhone sales, I suspect.

begsbyOnaTrain

Ardent wrote: »

So there you have it. Amazon's Mulhuddart DC will be circa 26 hectares in size and will employ 30 people. Count 'em: 3 - 0.

Athenry dodged a bullet, yet many there still bemoan how Apple would have "put the town on the map", boosted tourism (honestly!), and so on.

Those 30 people going to build and run it once completed? Wow.

Gadgetman496

Any thoughts on what will become of that land now?

cnocbui

cnocbui wrote: »

The Athenry data centre was cancelled by Apple because they no longer wanted it. Peak smartphone and falling iPhone sales, I suspect.

Where do you come up with this rubbish? It was cancelled because they were fed up waiting for the planning permission. Nothing at all to do with iPhone sales. :rolleyes:

salmocab

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

Eh 30 is a bigger number than 0 (which would probably make it the largest employer in Athenry behind Joyces)

and thats direct employment, not counting secondary positives for other local businesses.

But yeh I guess people in Dublin dont think anyone lives outside the Pale and requires jobs

Mulhuddart that he was referring to is inside the pale

Greaney

Gadgetman496 wrote: »

Any thoughts on what will become of that land now?

I dont' know. They own it. It's a huge bank of land. I've not felt lost in woods very often in my life (in Ireland) but you can walk for an hour in that place and still not get to the end of it. Popular with walkers, especially dog walkers, and has a great blackberry harvest every year!

It'd be nice if it was developed as an amenity, camping etc. and the chances of building cycle paths were mooted (there's exceptional infrastructure already in place ie; the Teagasc road from Ballygarraun) but we're under no illusion. Any development should always have an element of civic or public benefit attached to it. I've not seen that yet. We've a serious shortage of community space in the town.... I digress.

Many in the community are trying to step up our game and get involved in the planning in our town more and more. We understand we can't be passive and expect 'investment' to all of a sudden fill the empty buildings of the town. Indeed, we need to learn how the system works and where we can insert our 'voice'. Alas, that land is private and we've no say so they could do anything. Leo Varadkar said they'd get another data centre built there, but the truth is, people want Apple, the date centre is just what it was. It's the brand you see....

salmocab

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

Exactly, his post boils down to "30 jobs is nothing (in Dublin)" its plain snobbery

As someone who works in tech and doesnt live far from Athenry, any jobs are a positive to the local economy.

It is ok for Dublin to put up a "we are closed" sign now that we are in a boom and there is a serious housing shortage. But the rest of the country may as well be a different country economics wise.

What are you talking about we are closed? You seem to be blaming Dublin for things that are nothing to do with Dublin. The poster was making a point about how many jobs a huge DC creates it wasn’t a shot at any part of the country.


Until last month I worked in DCs and know the numbers that they employ, it is low but that 30 figure is almost certainly only direct amazon jobs, amazon run the leanest workforce in the industry but there are extra jobs created beyond them.

salmocab

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

His "point" is a thinly veiled strawman/whataboutism

30 Jobs not created in Athenry would be equivalent to 9000 jobs not created in Dublin when you compare populations and economies.

The whole datacenter debacle makes my blood boil, and yes I understand (my current job is to literally automate jobs out of existence) that not many people work in datacenters BUT its better than nothing especially in a small rural town.

No his point (which I disagree with) is that for what DCs use power mainly they aren’t worth it for the country as a whole.

1641

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

Which is silly
The Luddites have taken over the Green movement but thats a topic for another thread.

You must have been inhaling that GSM corn to come up with that crazy notion.:D

threeball

Ardent wrote: »

So there you have it. Amazon's Mulhuddart DC will be circa 26 hectares in size and will employ 30 people. Count 'em: 3 - 0.

Athenry dodged a bullet, yet many there still bemoan how Apple would have "put the town on the map", boosted tourism (honestly!), and so on.

The one in Tallaght is already causing power issues and they're only testing at the moment. We'll end up like south Africa if we keep this plan up. Bloody thing could heat tallaght but no. We'll just vent millions of kw's off the roof because what else could you do with it....

threeball

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

salmocab wrote: »

Mulhuddart that he was referring to is inside the pale

Exactly, his post boils down to "30 jobs is nothing (in Dublin)" its plain snobbery

As someone who works in tech and doesnt live far from Athenry, any jobs are a positive to the local economy.

It is ok for Dublin to put up a "we are closed" sign now that we are in a boom and there is a serious housing shortage. But the rest of the country may as well be a different country economics wise.

I'm from Galway and delighted the bloody thing was never built. I'd rather keep my lights on and not subsidise it with my tax til the day I die.
If they actually said they'd do something decent like build a couple of housing estates around it heating them, adding population to athenry, creating jobs in pubs, restaurants, shops, hairdressers then yes there is an argument to put it there. A commuter belt for Galway but as I said before it's a leech.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

.....despite the flag wavers, they had and still have, a significant amount of support locally

No they don't. I'm from Athenry and can tell you those feckwits from Lysheenkyle are lucky theyve not had their house fire bombed at this stage. There was significant anger towards them in the town and now theres a degree of bitterness.



They won't be getting any favours from anyone any time soon.

threeball

Deleted User wrote: »

Deleted User wrote: »

.....despite the flag wavers, they had and still have, a significant amount of support locally

No they don't. I'm from Athenry and can tell you those feckwits from Lysheenkyle are lucky theyve not had their house fire bombed at this stage. There was significant anger towards them in the town and now theres a degree of bitterness.



They won't be getting any favours from anyone any time soon.

If that's the case then people are stupid and obviously thought this thing was going to bring a lot more positivity than was realistic. Fire bombing their house. Never heard such sh1te.

cnocbui

Deleted User wrote: »

No they don't. I'm from Athenry and can tell you those feckwits from Lysheenkyle are lucky theyve not had their house fire bombed at this stage. There was significant anger towards them in the town and now theres a degree of bitterness.



They won't be getting any favours from anyone any time soon.

Apple have cancelled their data centre project in Denmark, just as they cancelled here in Ireland. It's pretty clear they no longer want or need data centres in Europe - which is the real reason for the cancellations, not protestors or other made-up difficulties.

threeball

threeball wrote: »

If that's the case then people are stupid and obviously thought this thing was going to bring a lot more positivity than was realistic. Fire bombing their house. Never heard such sh1te.

200+ temporary construction jobs and 30+ permanent jobs for Athenry would have been very welcome. Do you not understand why people are angry?

threeball

Deleted User wrote: »

threeball wrote: »

If that's the case then people are stupid and obviously thought this thing was going to bring a lot more positivity than was realistic. Fire bombing their house. Never heard such sh1te.

200+ temporary construction jobs and 30+ permanent jobs for Athenry would have been very welcome. Do you not understand why people are angry?

Do you not understand that at least half of those permanent jobs would have went to people not from athenry as they wouldn't be qualified. Do not understand that the main building would be built in the main by prople not from Galway. Do you also not understand how much extra tax you are going to pay unless we reduce our carbon emissions as a nation. Do you even fathom the power these beasts consume and the pressure that puts on the local infrastructure?

No I don't understand why people are angry and if they really knew the reality they wouldn't be angry either.

1641

threeball wrote: »

Do you not understand that at least half of those permanent jobs would have went to people not from athenry as they wouldn't be qualified.

And how many permanent jobs in Galway city go to people not from the city - or from Galway for that matter? Are jobs only "good" or useful if they go to people from that specific locality?

threeball

1641 wrote: »

threeball wrote: »

Do you not understand that at least half of those permanent jobs would have went to people not from athenry as they wouldn't be qualified.

And how many permanent jobs in Galway city go to people not from the city - or from Galway for that matter? Are jobs only "good" or useful if they go to people from that specific locality?

No point in locals going mental and "Fire bombing" a house just for someone from athlone to get the job and commute up and down every day. Some jobs just aren't worth the issues that come with them.

Whereisgalway

Should this be in the county section, surely atherny isn’t in the city boundaries

Ardent

[Deleted User] wrote: »

200+ temporary construction jobs and 30+ permanent jobs for Athenry would have been very welcome. Do you not understand why people are angry?

None of those jobs would have gone to locals ffs.

You probably have all these romantic notions about Apple but let me break it to you - they were never going to turn Athenry into Silicon Valley mk 2.

Mrs OBumble

[Deleted User] wrote: »

200+ temporary construction jobs and 30+ permanent jobs for Athenry would have been very welcome. Do you not understand why people are angry?

Are there a lot of unemployed construction workers in Athenry?

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

No they don't. I'm from Athenry and can tell you those feckwits from Lysheenkyle are lucky theyve not had their house fire bombed at this stage. There was significant anger towards them in the town and now theres a degree of bitterness.

They won't be getting any favours from anyone any time soon.

Dramatic much, lol

Only those who didn't truly understand the implications and were enamored by the Apple name, showed any significant annoyance.

As for threatening physical violence over a glorified warehouse.........

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

200+ temporary construction jobs and 30+ permanent jobs for Athenry would have been very welcome. Do you not understand why people are angry?

Their grand. Those jobs have since been replaced by the food hub in teagasc which will lead to an actual industry in the area, employing locals, sourcing supplies locally etc

All without using the equivalent of several counties worth of electricity

correct horse battery staple

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

Why does everything have to be an either / or choice?

That's a bit too much of an existential question for boards