Apple Athenry data centre

ezstreet5

pure.conya wrote: »

but think of the breakfast rolls that would be produced in the building process

...and think of THE CHILDREN!

ted1

ezstreet5 wrote: »

Apple's Mesa, Arizona, $2 billion "Global Data Command Centre" is peculiar indeed. At the same time that the company was plámásing Ireland and Denmark as ideal DC locations due to cool climates (thus allowing free air cooling), they build a massive data centre in the absolute hottest major metro area of USA, with massive mechanical cooling???

Then, after a section of the solar array on the roof caught fire, they simply removed the PV panels entirely.

And once up and running, we can see perhaps 100 cars in the carpark at times. But at other times, there are as few as ten cars? (See the latest aerial photo on Google Earth taken 13/1/2018).

So for fun, I searched for current job openings at all of Apple's existing and planned data centre locations in USA and Europe (surely there must always be some level of turnover). Draw your own conclusions, but I for one am not self-harming over lost jobs for Athenry: https://jobs.apple.com/en-us/search?location=maiden-MDN+mesa-MEA+prineville-PVE+reno-REO+newark-NWR+viborg-state1187+aabenraa-AJ1

5 security on at a time with around 6 shifts. So that’s 30 jobs for locals.

Cleaners 4 on at a time day 3 shifts, that’s 12 licsl jobs

Gardens. 2 full time jobs.

Maintenances staff , electricians, plumbers. Another 4 jobs.

Caterers. 1 more local jobs.

Then there’s the staff employed directly by apple, 15 network engineers, high paid staff living locally. Spending in local businesses.

Staff in power stations , Eirgrid, ESB. ( the local sub station will have 2 staff working there because of apple)

So lots if local jobs

ted1

ted1 wrote: »

5 security on at a time with around 6 shifts. So that’s 30 jobs for locals.

Cleaners 4 on at a time day 3 shifts, that’s 12 licsl jobs

Gardens. 2 full time jobs.

Maintenances staff , electricians, plumbers. Another 4 jobs.

Caterers. 1 more local jobs.

Then there’s the staff employed directly by apple, 15 network engineers, high paid staff living locally. Spending in local businesses.

Staff in power stations , Eirgrid, ESB. ( the local sub station will have 2 staff working there because of apple)

So lots if local jobs

Seriously stretching every strand of logic with those numbers

ted1

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Seriously stretching every strand of logic with those numbers

Have you ever been to a data centre ? I’ve been to facebooks , all of Amazon’s , Microsoft’s, and numerous Other ones. And I’m not stretching the figures at all

ted1

ted1 wrote: »

Have you ever been to a data centre ? I’ve been to facebooks , all of Amazon’s , Microsoft’s, and numerous Other ones . And I’m not stretching the figures at all

Course you have

salmocab

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Course you have

In fairness a lot of services delivered to those data centers are from the same few companies, the likes of generators in them are only coming from one of a couple of suppliers so it wouldn’t be crazy for someone to have been in a lot of them. I’ve been to quite a few.

gordongekko

ezstreet5 wrote: »

And once up and running, we can see perhaps 100 cars in the carpark at times. But at other times, there are as few as ten cars? (See the latest aerial photo on Google Earth taken 13/1/2018).

13/1/18 was a weekend

ted1

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Course you have

I work in energy management, and yes ihave

pure.conya

ted1 wrote: »

I work in energy management, and yes ihave

so with your expertise of energy management, you can count the numbers of staff, and full-time gardeners at data centres?

Franz Von Peppercorn

ezstreet5 wrote: »

Apple's Mesa, Arizona, $2 billion "Global Data Command Centre" is peculiar indeed. At the same time that the company was plámásing Ireland and Denmark as ideal DC locations due to cool climates (thus allowing free air cooling), they build a massive data centre in the absolute hottest major metro area of USA, with massive mechanical cooling???

Then, after a section of the solar array on the roof caught fire, they simply removed the PV panels entirely.

And once up and running, we can see perhaps 100 cars in the carpark at times. But at other times, there are as few as ten cars? (See the latest aerial photo on Google Earth taken 13/1/2018).

So for fun, I searched for current job openings at all of Apple's existing and planned data centre locations in USA and Europe (surely there must always be some level of turnover). Draw your own conclusions, but I for one am not self-harming over lost jobs for Athenry: https://jobs.apple.com/en-us/search?location=maiden-MDN+mesa-MEA+prineville-PVE+reno-REO+newark-NWR+viborg-state1187+aabenraa-AJ1

Either it is powered by solar or it isn’t. If it is 100% powered by solar then it is carbon neutral.

ezstreet5

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Either it is powered by solar or it isn’t. If it is 100% powered by solar then it is carbon neutral.

Apple Mesa is physically powered by the Salt River Project's portfolio of generating assets, delivered by SRP's transmission system. SRP's current portfolio is 53% coal, 18% nuke, 17% natural gas/other, and 12% renewables.

Apple claims that they have "partnered with the local utility" (SRP) to build the 50 MW Bonnybrooke solar project, "which more than fully matches the energy used by the data center." (I believe they have established a separate company for the sole purpose of selling power to SRP.)

Perhaps. But to truly investigate the veracity of this claim, the public would need to be informed of (i) the percentage of the solar project's capex paid by Apple, including any subsidies received, (ii) the terms of the power sale agreement of the solar project to the utility, and (iii) the terms of the data centre's power purchase agreement with SRP. And of course, those details are shrouded in PR-soaked secrecy. Unfortunately for Apple, unless and until those terms are made public, there is the very real risk that costs are being shifted to the residential and small business ratepayers.

And turning back to Ireland, it is noteable that Apple advanced no similar project involving new renewables generation whatsoever. None.

ronnie3585

https://galwaybayfm.ie/galway-bay-fm-news-desk/galway-minister-says-cancellation-of-apple-data-centre-in-denmark-could-give-athenry-hope/

A Galway Minister says the decision by tech-giant Apple to cancel plans for a major data centre in Denmark brings fresh hope to Athenry.

The centre – which carried an estimated cost of almost one billion dollars – would have Apple’s second in the country.

However, the Denmark plan has now been shelved – and Galway East Junior Minister Ciaran Cannon says it could offer fresh hope for Athenry.

Apple first secured permission for an €850m data centre in Athenry in late 2016 – but the plan was ultimately abandoned following long-running objections.

In April of this year, the Supreme Court dismissed the appeal by local residents against the decision to grant permission.

While Apple had abandoned the project by this point, concerns had been raised about the implications of the case on future data centre projects in Ireland.

Galway East Fine Gael Junior Minister says in light of the cancellation of the project in Denmark, Athenry once again makes sense.

Will we see Apple parades on the streets of Athenry again?

ronnie3585

ronnie3585 wrote: »

https://galwaybayfm.ie/galway-bay-fm-news-desk/galway-minister-says-cancellation-of-apple-data-centre-in-denmark-could-give-athenry-hope/

Will we see Apple parades on the streets of Athenry again?

One would hope not. Literally the only reason folks got worked over this was the Apple name attached to it. Its basically a warehouse

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

One would hope not. Literally the only reason folks got worked over this was the Apple name attached to it. Its basically a warehouse

One would very much hope so, we should be begging for them to reconsider. Not only will it employ plenty of people, companies attract companies just look at how Galway is a medical device hub.

This case has really shown how much we need a new approach to planning appeals, the idiots appealing against this should should have been allowed one appeal and after that case close, no more avenues to delay or slow down building of the plant.

Stichy

Deleted User wrote: »

One would hope not. Literally the only reason folks got worked over this was the Apple name attached to it. Its basically a warehouse

I work in a data center plenty of jobs to be had.

flazio

It's a hiding to nothing at this stage and the article is just an excuse for a couple of politicians to keep their names in public domain.

pure.conya

Stichy wrote: »

I work in a data center plenty of jobs to be had.

sure ya do

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

One would hope not. Literally the only reason folks got worked over this was the Apple name attached to it. Its basically a warehouse

Perhaps I should expand on my statement, it's basically a warehouse that would consume the equivalent of 4 to 5+ counties worth of electricity when fully operational.

It's touted as being worth hundreds of millions but it's not. Those hundreds of millions to be spent are not going to be spent locally, rather we would see a short term boost from construction then a dribble from the ongoing employment.

Given the food incubator hub at Teagasc in Athenry will employ more people over a longer term with much greater benefits for the local community, economy and environment, why on earth would anyone want to build the data center is beyond me.

dubhthach

It's worth hundreds of millions in Corporation tax. Think about it every iCloud (premium) or Apple Music (new streaming service) account served out of it is a service sale booked in Ireland (after all the content is been stored and streamed from Ireland). Services is a growing part of Apple business. Apple did nearly $11billion in service Revenue in Q1 2019, if they keep that up they'll guaranteed to do over $40b+ for the year.

Given that EU market is same size as the US you're talking about a good chunk of Revenue. The French or any other EU country cannot actually claim taxes on Apple revenue generated from such services if the actual 'service' (eg. data storage/processing etc.) occurs in Ireland. It's almost equivalent to old days when they were building hardware in Cork and shipping it to the continent. It's not a case of a funny booking where 'Apple Retail France' claims they paid 'Apple Services Ireland' (made up company names) 90% of revenue to pay for iPhones shipped directly from China. There would be an actual service been provided out of country housing the actual data center.

It's same process with Amazon and AWS. Amazon is really a cloud company with a bookshop/retail on the side, the premier region for Amazon in the EU is Dublin (followed distantly by Frankfurt), every AWS cloud instance spun up by a EU company in Dublin is using services/infrastructure situated in Ireland ergo is only subjected to Irish taxes which the likes of Macron can't grab at.

Leaving that aside given the major cables planned to land in west of Ireland in the next 5 years you will probably have someone else build in the west. Major cable coming into Clew Bay (it's a branch of cable running New Jersey to Denmark and Norway) operational in Q4 this year, another proposal for running major cable between Killala and Norway (both of these cables will bypass terrestrial UK to Northern Europe). At a conference there recently I heard talk about proposed Iceland to Ireland cable also coming into North Mayo.

If these three cables are built you will have total of 4 major subsea cable systems landing in Mayo, with combined bandwidth of about 26Tbit/s across the Atlantic plus additional capacity to Norway and Iceland.



The cable landing in Clew Bay is been part funded by both Facebook and Google who both obviously have major dc presence in Ireland already.

ezstreet5

dubhthach wrote: »

It's worth hundreds of millions in Corporation tax. Think about it every iCloud (premium) or Apple Music (new streaming service) account served out of it is a service sale booked in Ireland (after all the content is been stored and streamed from Ireland). Services is a growing part of Apple business. Apple did nearly $11billion in service Revenue in Q1 2019, if they keep that up they'll guaranteed to do over $40b+ for the year.

Given that EU market is same size as the US you're talking about a good chunk of Revenue. The French or any other EU country cannot actually claim taxes on Apple revenue generated from such services if the actual 'service' (eg. data storage/processing etc.) occurs in Ireland. It's almost equivalent to old days when they were building hardware in Cork and shipping it to the continent. It's not a case of a funny booking where 'Apple Retail France' claims they paid 'Apple Services Ireland' (made up company names) 90% of revenue to pay for iPhones shipped directly from China. There would be an actual service been provided out of country housing the actual data center.

It's same process with Amazon and AWS. Amazon is really a cloud company with a bookshop/retail on the side, the premier region for Amazon in the EU is Dublin (followed distantly by Frankfurt), every AWS cloud instance spun up by a EU company in Dublin is using services/infrastructure situated in Ireland ergo is only subjected to Irish taxes which the likes of Macron can't grab at.

I'd question your estimate of revenue and corporation tax payable on profit from a hyperscale data centre. You mentioned Amazon (ADSIL) - and we are all aware of their substantial Dublin DC presence. Yet, per the Times article below, ADSIL paid only €11 million corporate tax on €1.65 billion in operating revenue. That is of course due to their apparent razor thin operating profit of €39.46 million pre-tax. (I'm sure their accountants were holding their collective breath during the final week of 2018, waiting for that few extra million to trickle in to put the company in the black).

I wouldn't expect Apple Data Services Ireland to pay any more than Amazon, if Ireland is in fact their declared tax home at all. And that is the main issue with regard to IDA's bizarre strategy to attract any and all data centres, regardless of the cost. If Ireland doesn't have the cajones to tax the true profits of these giants in any meaningful way, then what good are they other than as IDA trophies?

Interesting about the undersea cables.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/technology/revenues-soar-at-amazon-s-main-irish-unit-1.3834506

Subcomandante Marcos

People talking about hundreds of employees and stellar numbers people employed locally are idiots.

Stichy

pure.conya wrote: »

sure ya do

Why would I lie on a forum like this not like it makes any difference does it.

pure.conya

dubhthach wrote: »

It's worth hundreds of millions in Corporation tax. Think about it every iCloud (premium) or Apple Music (new streaming service) account served out of it is a service sale booked in Ireland (after all the content is been stored and streamed from Ireland). Services is a growing part of Apple business. Apple did nearly $11billion in service Revenue in Q1 2019, if they keep that up they'll guaranteed to do over $40b+ for the year.

Given that EU market is same size as the US you're talking about a good chunk of Revenue. The French or any other EU country cannot actually claim taxes on Apple revenue generated from such services if the actual 'service' (eg. data storage/processing etc.) occurs in Ireland. It's almost equivalent to old days when they were building hardware in Cork and shipping it to the continent. It's not a case of a funny booking where 'Apple Retail France' claims they paid 'Apple Services Ireland' (made up company names) 90% of revenue to pay for iPhones shipped directly from China. There would be an actual service been provided out of country housing the actual data center.

It's same process with Amazon and AWS. Amazon is really a cloud company with a bookshop/retail on the side, the premier region for Amazon in the EU is Dublin (followed distantly by Frankfurt), every AWS cloud instance spun up by a EU company in Dublin is using services/infrastructure situated in Ireland ergo is only subjected to Irish taxes which the likes of Macron can't grab at.

Leaving that aside given the major cables planned to land in west of Ireland in the next 5 years you will probably have someone else build in the west. Major cable coming into Clew Bay (it's a branch of cable running New Jersey to Denmark and Norway) operational in Q4 this year, another proposal for running major cable between Killala and Norway (both of these cables will bypass terrestrial UK to Northern Europe). At a conference there recently I heard talk about proposed Iceland to Ireland cable also coming into North Mayo.

If these three cables are built you will have total of 4 major subsea cable systems landing in Mayo, with combined bandwidth of about 26Tbit/s across the Atlantic plus additional capacity to Norway and Iceland.



The cable landing in Clew Bay is been part funded by both Facebook and Google who both obviously have major dc presence in Ireland already.

ya good old global tax avoiding apple

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/apple-s-cash-mountain-how-it-avoids-tax-and-the-irish-link-1.3281734?mode=amp

Mrs OBumble

ezstreet5 wrote: »

I'd question your estimate of revenue and corporation tax payable on profit from a hyperscale data centre.

What's more, the approach to tax on digital items is changing: soon enough the tax will be liable in the country of the customer, one way or another.

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2018/1031/1007616-digital-sales-tax/

JJJackal

Apple in Athenry would have created a lot of jobs:

A) construction
workers to run facility
C) workers to maintain and clean the facility
D) generating all the electricity to run it (this plant will be built somewhere so the electricity will be used to run it either way)
E) corporation tax, income tax, PRSI... of employer and employee spend or used to employ more people by the government
F) all of the above need homes and services creating more jobs

Greaney

JJJackal wrote: »

Apple in Athenry would have created a lot of jobs:

A) construction
workers to run facility
C) workers to maintain and clean the facility
D) generating all the electricity to run it (this plant will be built somewhere so the electricity will be used to run it either way)
E) corporation tax, income tax, PRSI... of employer and employee spend or used to employ more people by the government
F) all of the above need homes and services creating more jobs

In the United states, when a company is announcing new jobs, they are not allowed count 'construction jobs' on a project, they must only refer to 'real jobs'. That is 'full time jobs with pay and benefits'.

I'm a freelancer myself so I see the difference. A person gets a contract if they're a builder, not a job. The job has already been created, they are merely carrying out a contract, otherwise we are counting the job twice, once by the subcontractor and then by the contractor.

We have to watch this 'jobs at any cost' attitude we seem have in Ireland, it may blind us to a) making a better deal and not giving away our national resources to a company who will not pay their share and b) the jobs could be really lousy, short term, or sub contracts with sub-human conditions (that's becoming the norm now).

JJJackal

Greaney wrote: »

In the United states, when a company is announcing new jobs, they are not allowed count 'construction jobs' on a project, they must only refer to 'real jobs'. That is 'full time jobs with pay and benefits'.

I'm a freelancer myself so I see the difference. A person gets a contract if they're a builder, not a job. The job has already been created, they are merely carrying out a contract, otherwise we are counting the job twice, once by the subcontractor and then by the contractor.

We have to watch this 'jobs at any cost' attitude we seem have in Ireland, it may blind us to a) making a better deal and not giving away our national resources to a company who will not pay their share and b) the jobs could be really lousy, short term, or sub contracts with sub-human conditions (that's becoming the norm now).

What natural resources do you think we are giving away with a data centre? We buy in electricity and the resources to generate it

Greaney

JJJackal wrote: »

What natural resources do you think we are giving away with a data centre? We buy in electricity and the resources to generate it

You should read my statement again, I was very careful in phrasing that statement and I did not say Natural resources.... although now that you mention it, we did sell a national forest...

Greaney

Greaney wrote: »

You should read my statement again, I was very careful in phrasing that statement and I did not say Natural resources.... although now that you mention it, we did sell a national forest...

It’s useless wasteland where the data center was to be built, good for nothing land was going to be turned into massive money spinner for the local and wider economy and create lots of construction and permanent jobs. I still can’t believe they just didn’t totally ignore the people trying to sabotage this after the first appeal, should have been shown the door and given no avenue whatsoever to stop it progressing.

listermint

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

People talking about hundreds of employees and stellar numbers people employed locally are idiots.

What sort of idiocy is this crap.

Amazon constructed a second data centre in tallaght. It's still under construction. Hundreds of jobs during construction phase and Hundred of jobs inside the data centre that's operational. It's not finished entirely yet. But nearly done .

The only people spouting this sort of crap have never been in a data centre. Have no clue about the technology inside them and don't actually use their services in a business to business capacity.

It's amusing how ignorant people spout spoof.