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N24 - Cahir to Limerick Junction [design and planning underway]

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,589 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    The bigger issue with the line is that it doesn’t serve any population centres in County Limerick, and that really hits the ridership figures. Most other lines get their viability from commuter services for the short-distance travellers near to the urban terminii, not just the end-to-end, but Waterford-Limerick only really serves Waterford and South Tipp like this. The Eastern leg from Waterford to Rosslare, that has since closed, had the same problem: it didn’t serve New Ross or Wexford, which are both in Waterford’s hinterland for car commuting.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,055 ✭✭✭Paddico


    I seem to have read somewhere that this has been downgraded from Motorway to 2x2 but cant find it now. Anyone else have more info?



  • Registered Users Posts: 36 Mother Trucker


    It was never going to be motorway, it has been in planning as Type 2 DC.



  • Registered Users Posts: 317 ✭✭steeler j


    There was talk about it being a motorway but that was never going to be realistic when u consider the amount of traffic on it . It was also going to end up being a type 1 single carriageway or type 2 dual carriageway.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,902 ✭✭✭Chris_5339762


    I can't see this being anything less than 2x2 to be honest. Traffic levels aren't there for any motorway, but yet it would be silly to build such a road for anything less than 2x2.


    I can see it a-la New Ross though, mostly 2x2 with a few small, almost unnoticable stretches of Type 1 around the bigger towns.



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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,057 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    They said motorway in a progress so far document, but since the whole route will never be motorway this was always unlikely.

    End to end 2+2 would be great and nobody would complain.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,055 ✭✭✭Paddico


    Would anyone have an idea of cost difference between Motorway and 2x2.

    Whats the real difference apart from slicker/smoother intersections, no roundabouts and perhaps a wider road?



  • Registered Users Posts: 36 Mother Trucker


    The lack of hard shoulders would be the main difference, compact GSJs and/or roundabouts instead of full sized GSJs, and a lower speed limit.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,902 ✭✭✭Chris_5339762


    Also gradients are lesser with motorway, and the radius of curvature of bends is much greater with motorway. It'd be a much bigger project.


    2+2 will be fine - maybe stick to the old plans of Type 1 (basically motorway) past Mooncoin, but thats it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,055 ✭✭✭Paddico


    cheers folks



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  • Registered Users Posts: 317 ✭✭steeler j


    The link for bansha village has been changed , its supposed to run from scart to bansha now .



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,055 ✭✭✭Paddico




  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 12,077 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    As part of Phase 3 – Design & Environmental Evaluation, the project team will be publishing a series of design updates for the project. Design Update No. 1 will be available to view on the project website www.n24cahirlimerick.ie from 11am on Monday 23rd January 2023.




  • Registered Users Posts: 317 ✭✭steeler j


    I wonder what will be in the update and how detailed it will be considering they have only started phase 3 a few months ago



  • Registered Users Posts: 462 ✭✭Limerick74


    Design update now live on the N24 website Design Update No.1 – N24 (n24cahirlimerick.ie)



  • Registered Users Posts: 317 ✭✭steeler j


    The route is narrowed to 100 meters and potential junctions marked out



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,314 ✭✭✭pigtown


    In terms of active travel options it appears that a cycle route the length of the current N24 is the plan.

    I wonder will this be just some lines on the hard shoulder like the old N7 between Limerick and Nenagh or will it be a proper segregated lane.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,589 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    If the cross-section is 2+2, as is expected, then the active travel will be fully segregated from the motor lanes.

    EDIT: it looks like the active-travel lanes will be built on the old N24 for most of the scheme length.

    Post edited by KrisW1001 on


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,874 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    There isn't a hard shoulder to put lines on on the N24, they are going to have to create the space for it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 462 ✭✭Limerick74


    The drawings show the active travel mainly on the existing N24 away from the new N24 road.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,902 ✭✭✭Chris_5339762


    Looks like they're going to just tack this onto the current roundabouts at the M8 junction. Connecting a motorway to a cross country dual carriageway through a network of three roundabouts is UK levels of stupidity. Whilst the traffic numbers will be low enough, the closest in terms of absolute daftness and nonsense are the junctions on the Aberdeen bypass.


    https://goo.gl/maps/zwm11tewYJfQ8WZz5



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,589 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    A roundabout was the wrong type of junction for M50, but this is not M50 - this is a quiet stretch of motorway (13,000 AADT) meeting a quiet stretch of primary road (6,500 AADT). For this junction, a dumb-bell using a pair of roundabouts is entirely appropriate, and these are big roundabouts: each is 80 metres wide, which is slightly bigger than the dumb-bell roundabouts on the new M7 J10, a junction which carries far more traffic than this ever will.

    Also, it is not a “network of three roundabouts”, it’s a standard dumb-bell interchange. The third, smaller, roundabout off the eastern side of the dumb-bell might carry N24 traffic now, but it will be used only for local traffic once this project opens. I do expect that when the eastern side of this project is prepared, there will be some minor capacity improvements for this junction (the overbridge may be widened), but it’s not going to turn into a free-flow interchange.

    Blowing the roads budget on free-flow junctions everywhere is nonsense, using roundabouts on low-traffic junctions is not.



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,409 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    The plan during the last round of planning back in the late 00s was for a 2nd over bridge to be build over the M8 and the M8/N24 junction to be converted to a grade separated roundabout ala the N18/N19 junction. Would definitely be sufficient here.

    Reading between the lines here for the routing, does anyone else think this will be phased with the first phase from the western end to east of Bansha? The 90 degree turn placed in the revised routing here would seem to suggest so. Eamon Ryan never shuts up about prioritising the section bypassing Tipp Town so it’s not altogether surprising.

    The remaining 11km can be progressed by a Government that understands the benefits of safe interurban routes



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,314 ✭✭✭pigtown


    Are you saying this isn't a safe route?



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,409 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Those bends at Ballydrehid could do with replacement, and much of the route from Bansha to the M8 is legacy road with accesses, poor sighlines, junctions etc.

    We should be aiming to get all of that route type removed from the national primary network



  • Registered Users Posts: 317 ✭✭steeler j


    A lot of local vocal support for doing the Tipp town section first, putting pressure on government, Tii are very much in favour and pushing for the whole scheme because of the terrible road between bansha and the m8 . I hope the Tii get the whole thing do ,doing the Tipp town section would be doing a half job . A similar approach to the macroom bypass would do , openeast bansha to west Tipperary early .



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,589 ✭✭✭KrisW1001



    I don’t think it will be phased, and the “90 degree turn” is clearly for large roundabout interchange. The spur towards old N24 here is a good bit shorter that it was on the preferred corridor, so I suspect that the more detailed traffic studies showed that the amount of traffic that splits toward Bansha at this point is the same or greater than the amount that would stay on N24 towards Tipp town. If this is the case, a large at-grade roundabout would be the appropriate option rather than spending a fortune to put a higher capacity grade-separated junction onto a mainline that will be only lightly trafficked.

    But assuming that the blue-blobs represent places where a junction is likely to go, rather than where junctions could go, my concerns would be about the closely-spaced junctions around Limerick Junction, here:

    Obviously the location of this Limerick Junction junction has been chosen for the benefit of the racecourse, not the train station, but there’s less than 2 km between it and the Monard junction, which seems to be a little too closely-packed on what’s supposed to be a long-distace road.



  • Registered Users Posts: 443 ✭✭BagofWeed


    Absolute pathetic carry on regarding the N24 route and I can tell you as a fact the residents in the above area are furious over the route. There was a route chosen over twenty years ago going north of Monard and below the quarry that was accepted as inevitable by residents and was well out of the way of the existing N24 but these new plans almost seem to be deliberately chosen as to make the project unviable.

    If they were serious about expected population growth then a motorway should be constructed between Limerick and Waterford instead of the garbage proposed now which if built say within 5 years (which it won't) will be outdated within another 10 years. The closeness of the proposed road to Tipp itself is more suited to a relief or inner ring road than an actual by pass.



  • Registered Users Posts: 317 ✭✭steeler j


    If this was designed as a motorway it wouldn't get pass the PSC because it would be complete overkill . There is no need for this section of N24 to be anything more than a type 2 DC. The local residents are just nimbys that u get with every road project and most of the noise locally is coming from a small few people who haven't a clue what there talking about .



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  • Registered Users Posts: 443 ✭✭BagofWeed


    A type 2 DC should be fine but the proposed section from N74 onwards towards the Cullen Road at Monard is going to be a tight fit requiring lots of tight bends considering it's meant to be a by pass, I have family close to the original route and none of them complained in fact they were all supportive of it but the new route is a mess and will cause considerable annoyance to people living on the existing Tipp to Monard road.

    This proposed road will carry traffic from the southeast to the mid west and west and at least if it is to be a type 2 then it should be straight and not twisting around the place for the sake of Irish awkwardness especially considering there is very flat land in the general area. That bend at the Bansha turn off is absolutely nonsensical.

    I think the residents along the existing Monard to Bohercrowe roundabout are more concerned about the disruption the road construction will cause rather than being against the actual road and I don't blame them as there was a perfectly good route that had been chosen years ago that just got abandoned, a route that wouldn't have the potential to cause the mess that this proposed route will cause during construction from Monard to Tipp.



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