N24 - Cahir to Limerick Junction [design and planning underway]

KrisW1001

Crap, sorry - I missed that post completely (reading on phone...) That's disappointing, really. I would have expected 2+2 for this, but if they've effectively split it into sections and only proceeding with Tipperary bypass, all bets are off.

marno21

https://www.independent.ie/regionals/tipperary/news/disappointment-in-tipperary-over-n24-single-carriageway-bypass-plans/a469092122.html

Jayuu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121499814#Comment_121499814

Where are these figures from, especially the Bansha to Tipp Town one?

The traffic counter (Station Id:TMU N24 040.0 E Description:N24 Between Bansha and Tipperary Town, Co. Tipperary) from the TII traffic count website shows a figure of 6,901 for 2023 which is much higher than the figure in the post is saying for 2031. That by the way is up from 5,981 in 2021 which is an increase of 15% between those years. Now I guess a certain amount of that is local traffic so therefore will be split between the new and old roads but even so that figure makes no sense to me for a projected figure.

There are multiple places on the N24 corridor where the traffic counts are already in excess of 10K per day (Limerick at Ballysimon and Clonmel on both the Cahir and Carrick sides). Are the costs differentials between WS2 and 2+2 so vast that it can't be justified? And this is not even considering the road safety implications in reducing the risks of head on collisions from overtaking.

spacetweek

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121502364#Comment_121502364

"The route was never officially planned as motorway"

No that's not right, it was supposed to be motorway at one point. My records from 2020 show that, look at the entry for 16/10/2020. It references a TII document which isn't online anymore but I quote:

"N24 Cahir-Limerick Junction will be a motorway (35 km)."

Possibly this was a mistake in the document? Its AADT does seem low for a motorway although 9k vehicles is the same as M9 Kilkenny Bypass and the M17.

So it's gone from 2+2 to Motorway to 2+2 to single carriageway, also they hacked it down from a longer scheme to only the Tipp Town element.

Jayuu

The Independent article is not very clear at all to be honest. It has this quote:

Independent Deputy Mattie McGrath said he found out at a meeting with Tipperary County Council on Friday morning, December 15, that the road near Tipperary Town will be a single carriageway.

But it's not clear who has made that decision or when (or who) it was communicated to. I'd be interested to see more clarification and justification on this from TII. I am assuming that since the N24 is a national route it is a TII project.

marno21

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121503026#Comment_121503026

TII’s project update on late 2020 said this was to be a motorway. At the time it was assumed to be a typo and that 2+2/expressway was the intended cross section

steeler j

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121503007#Comment_121503007

On the option selection report . It is in the traffic modelling part of it . I have rounded the numbers a bit , I may be out a little either way.

Jayuu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121503177#Comment_121503177

Cheers. I must have a look at it to see if they've indicated how these 2031 projections were arrived at because they seem to be at major odds to the actuals from this year. In effect they are saying that 8 years into the future the Bansha to Tipperary section would have a reduction of approximately 20-25% of the current road traffic. That just seems crazy.

steeler j

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121503449#Comment_121503449

There the projected numbers on the new road

The old road between Bansha and Cahir 3240 (near Cahir)

Between Bansha and Cahir 2700 ( near bansha slip road )

Bansha to Tipperary 1330.

I most go back it myself as its a big difference from 1 side of the village to the other .

JohnC.

Is there a source other than Mattie McGrath about it being single carriageway? I'd rather not take him as a reliable source.

steeler j

The do minimum option had the numbers on the current road at

Bansha to Cahir 7000 (near Cahir)

Bansha to Cahir 5650 ( near Bansha)

Bansha to Tipperary town 6650.

touts

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121501101#Comment_121501101

No credible TD in South Tipperary to fight for resources. Mattie's too worried about migrants and Browne is barely able to sit upright. With a limited budget for roads TII will always be somewhat influenced by who shouts loudest and at the moment South Tipperary is whispering.

spacetweek

Some off topic stuff removed. N24 stuff only please.

black & white

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121499680#Comment_121499680

I regularly travel from Clare to the middle of Wexford and after years of having near misses on the N24 I now go via M7 to Newbridge, across the Curragh to Kilcullen and down the M9 to Carlow, only have a few miles of ordinary road after that. It is longer is distance but almost the same travel time. the sooner the N24 is upgraded the better.

steeler j

Tipperary County Council have stated that no decision has been made on the cross section. A type 1 single carriageway was used to draw up the initial route out line . It seems like Mattie and his buddies were only half listening and then started mouthing off. . If Mattie would only open his ears as much as his mouth.

spacetweek

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121514074#Comment_121514074

Source?

steeler j

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121516014#Comment_121516014

A local source told me as I ask to find out more on Monday . Tipp fm the radio station have an article on it today .

Limerick74

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121516115#Comment_121516115

https://tippfm.com/news/tipperary-county-council/council-moves-clarify-plans-n24-upgrade/

road_high

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121512968#Comment_121512968

Not quite as extreme but same from Kilkenny I think most people now going to Limerick travel via- meet the M7 at Borris in ossary rather than the N24 through Tipperary and Limerick

Jayuu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121516336#Comment_121516336

Well that's a relief. I did wonder if Mattie was talking out of his you know what. I honestly don't see how this upgrade is any way worthwhile as a complete entity if it's not 2+2.

I don't generally like bringing politics into threads but I see Tipperary is being split again into North and South for the next election. Given that the upgrade of both this section and the corresponding Cahir to Waterford section will mainly run through South Tipperary it's incumbent on voters there to make it an issue when politicians come to call looking for votes and ensure a proper upgrade is planned. Maybe try to elect some serious politicians next time around.

steeler j

Council officials hopeful of securing a further 2.85 million for this scheme to finish out phase 3 . They initially asked for 3.5 million but only received 650,000.

marno21

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122029918#Comment_122029918

Has it been published anywhere if Phase 3/4 for this will just be the Tipp Town bypass or do they plan to go to ABP with the whole 37kms?

steeler j

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122029971#Comment_122029971

I don't know but that may be a reason for the allocation as that amount might be what would get the the tipp town section through to phase 4. I most ask around.

Paddico

https://www.tipperarylive.ie/news/home/1479997/tipperary-council-in-talks-to-secure-2-85m-to-continue-n24-cahir-limerick-junction-design.html

Update

cartoncowboy

This process of drip feeding money and councils having to beg and TDs having to lobby for sufficient funds to move road projects from phase to phase is nuts. The Dept/TII, after a feasibility study or such, make a decision to say right we are going ahead with this, it will take X years and cost X money +- for inflation and commit to the process end to end.

This scheme and many others get delayed, postponed, shelved, paused because there is no full commitment to do a project. This causes issues for planners, homeowners/business affected not to mention the cost escalates the more you delay. Any new minister for transport needs to change the approach to road funding, its why there is a feeling nothing is getting built, things move at a snails pace and people get very fed up.

Rant over :-)

marno21

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122065508#Comment_122065508

This was raised at the last TII appearance at the Oireachtas Transport Committee actually. It's a bit ridiculous that a multi year, 10 figure capital program is run year to year with no real ability to forward plan. Such a programme should be planned 5-10 years in advance to give certainty to stakeholders, not decided on a whim after a months wrangling in December.