Canadian parent raising child as gender-neutral.

hatrickpatrick

This kind of sh!te is why far right populism is having a renaissance. I honestly can't express how pissed off I am with my fellow leftists for taking a good thing we had going - increasing cultural inclusivity, tolerance, and libertarianism - and deliberately pushing the envelope in order to make a point / troll the opposition, which I fully believe is the primary reason for things like this. They have allowed conservatism to flourish, by defining the left as necessarily including all of this overly complicated counter-intuiative garbage and then insisting that anybody who questions any of it is a something-ist scumbag.

Well done. You've f*cked it all up for the rest of us. Liberal ideals were gaining acceptance and legitimacy, and you had to overdo it and poison the whole f*cking well. Thanks a lot.

mzungu

gizmo81 wrote: »

You cannot compare records, something tangible to gender, a state of being.

That's just a bizarre comparison.

I wasn't comparing them, I was stating the reason why these things are categorised on the birth cert. The parent has refused to list the sex of her child on a birth cert for fear of it being equated with gender. What exactly is the issue with putting down the biological sex (as requested) and then letting things move on from there? It won't have any impact whatsoever on the child.

gizmo81 wrote: »

What's wrong with allowing a child discover their own language to describe their gender identity? What's wrong with allowing a child to choose their path to gender expression?

No problem with the above...just as long as coercion of any kind is not involved. However, thus far we have a toddler being used as a pawn in some ideological point scoring by a parent, so I am skeptical as to what freedom they will have as regards "gender expression".

Guy:Incognito

I'm going to make a bold prediction. The parents are vegan.

Am I close?

mzungu

eyerer wrote: »

The pseudo-intellect has his high horse and dictionary definition of gender.
Perhaps they should change 'gender' on the birth cert to 'sex'. That would make it simpler..?
Totally agree with the guy that said this will only cause trouble for the kid amongst their peers. Unless they get straight onto a doctoral program where every one is very liberal and metro.

According to this they already do.



Link here: https://www.rt.com/viral/394901-canada-gender-neutral-baby/

As I gather it, the trouble here would appear to be they do not want sex registered, as that may not match up with the child's gender in a few years down the line.

Nermal

gizmo81 wrote: »

What's wrong with allowing a child discover their own language to describe their gender identity? What's wrong with allowing a child to choose their path to gender expression?

You're not 'allowing' them to do anything, you're deliberately screwing them up in other to further societal acceptance of your abnormality.

gizmo81

How about you two divulge your highest educational achievement?

mick.oleary wrote: »

This ought to be good.

Might we enquire as to what your phd is in?

TheDavester

Never knew they did PHD's in Gender studies

hatrickpatrick

I just don't understand the gender identity thing. What's the point of it? Why can't we just define gender as biological sex, and then get rid of gender roles so that beyond the physical aspects, it won't matter?

This whole pan-demi-fluid nonsense just seems an overly complex way of saying, "I'm a non-conformist". So why don't we just get rid of the roles to conform to altogether instead of coming up with all this illogical, counter-intuitive, pseudo-intellectual crap?

The really stupid thing is that I'd actually call my way of doing this more liberal than the ever-expanding web of labels way of doing it, and yet I'm sure there are some muppets who'll accuse of me of being a transphobe or something like that.

mick.oleary

gizmo81 wrote: »

How about you two divulge your highest educational achievement?

How about you divulge how you are spending my tax money? What papers have you published? How many citations have you received? Are those citations building on your research or criticising it? Who is benefitting from your research? After your viva will you be looking for a cushy academic job or leaving the Ivory tower?

gizmo81

Then you don't know what a PhD is lol

The Ph stands for . . .

TheDavester wrote: »

Never knew they did PHD's in Gender studies

hatrickpatrick

gizmo81 wrote: »

Then you don't know what a PhD is lol

The Ph stands for . . .

Pretty huge.....? :pac:

Beanntraigheach

Ficheall wrote: »

Might we enquire as to what your phd is in?

Bollixology

mick.oleary

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

I just don't understand the gender identity thing. What's the point of it? Why can't we just define gender as biological sex, and then get rid of gender roles so that beyond the physical aspects, it won't matter?

This whole pan-demi-fluid nonsense just seems an overly complex way of saying, "I'm a non-conformist". So why don't we just get rid of the roles to conform to altogether instead of coming up with all this illogical, counter-intuitive, pseudo-intellectual crap?

The really stupid thing is that I'd actually call my way of doing this more liberal than the ever-expanding web of labels way of doing it, and yet I'm sure there are some muppets who'll accuse of me of being a transphobe or something like that.

What is so wrong about having gender roles? I was in the car park in Tesco one day and there was a man with his son and they bought a TV and they were waiting to be picked up. Anyway, along came this butch looking bird in a Punto (short hair, collar shirt) and starts giving him guff over something or other (possibly wasn't waiting in the right place). He was this shy timid type and didn't do what most men would do and assert himself. Anyway, it didn't look right.

Beanntraigheach

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

I just don't understand the gender identity thing. What's the point of it? Why can't we just define gender as biological sex, and then get rid of gender roles so that beyond the physical aspects, it won't matter?

This whole pan-demi-fluid nonsense just seems an overly complex way of saying, "I'm a non-conformist". So why don't we just get rid of the roles to conform to altogether instead of coming up with all this illogical, counter-intuitive, pseudo-intellectual crap?

The really stupid thing is that I'd actually call my way of doing this more liberal than the ever-expanding web of labels way of doing it, and yet I'm sure there are some muppets who'll accuse of me of being a transphobe or something like that.

Arachnophobe! :mad:

gizmo81

Knowledge Base!!! Correct.

But if some of you want to measure d1cks be warned

One study analysing the self-reported Kinsey data set found that the average penis of a homosexual man was larger than the average penis of their heterosexual counterparts

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10410197

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Pretty huge.....? :pac:

Ficheall

gizmo81 wrote: »

How about you two divulge your highest educational achievement?




Might we enquire as to what your phd is in?

Is that directed at me? I have a phd. It's only in mathematics, so hardly relevant to the discussion. Though it did involve finding and studying holes in objects ("Typical male!" to quote one lass I went on a date with), so I guess at a push I could argue that the software package I designed could very theoretically, be used to determine the baby's gender :pac:

hatrickpatrick

mick.oleary wrote: »

What is so wrong about having gender roles? I was in the car park in Tesco one day and there was a man with his son and they bought a TV and they were waiting to be picked up. Anyway, along came this butch looking bird in a Punto (short hair, collar shirt) and starts giving him guff over something or other (possibly wasn't waiting in the right place). He was this shy timid type and didn't do what most men would do and assert himself. Anyway, it didn't look right.

I'm a social libertarian so my overall outlook on life is that there can be no such thing as a victimless 'wrong' - in other words, everybody should be encouraged to live however the f*ck they want as long as it doesn't harm anyone else. In that context, gender roles involve "rules", and I'm opposed to any and all cultural rules beyond "don't harm anyone".

iguana

mick.oleary wrote: »

I do. Western society is becoming too tolerant of this sort of bullsh**.

Do you think this is worse than all the parents who force their boys to play sports and won't let their daughters climb trees? Who refuse to get their daughter the Transformer's toys she has her heart set on or their son the Barbie he really wants? Who 'lose' the old handbag their toddler son has taken to carrying around? Or freaks out if he tries on his mother's/sister's lipstick.

Or even more extreme what about all the parents who disown their children for being gay, marrying into the wrong religion or race, getting pregnant outside of marriage, leaving their religion etc.

I don't agree that going to Doty's extreme in this regard are necessary or healthy but they are better parenting and come from a better place than all of the above. Doty just wants to leave the child decide for itself about it's likes and dislikes and figure out their own gender for themselves. That's really not the worst that a parent can do.

Will I Am Not

I dread to think what the world will be like 20 years from now.

hatrickpatrick

gizmo81 wrote: »

Knowledge Base!!! Correct.

But if some of you want to measure d1cks be warned

One study analysing the self-reported Kinsey data set found that the average penis of a homosexual man was larger than the average penis of their heterosexual counterparts

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10410197

Did they measure from the base, or from the balls?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHEF05mBG0Y

Summer wind

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5boZdINItXI

hatrickpatrick

iguana wrote: »

Do you think this is worse than all the parents who force their boys to play sports and won't let their daughters climb trees? Who refuse to get their daughter the Transformer's toys she has her heart set on or their son the Barbie he really wants? Who 'lose' the old handbag their toddler son has taken to carrying around? Or freaks out if he tries on his mother's/sister's lipstick.

Or even more extreme what about all the parents who disown their children for being gay, marrying into the wrong religion or race, getting pregnant outside of marriage, leaving their religion etc.

I don't agree that going to Doty's extreme in this regard are necessary or healthy but they are better parenting and come from a better place than all of the above. Doty just wants to leave the child decide for itself about it's likes and dislikes and figure out their own gender for themselves. That's really not the worst that a parent can do.

My argument would be that gender is a purely physical thing, and that "what the child likes and dislikes" should be completely and totally independent of and irrelevant to sex/gender. In other words, "gender" just shouldn't be a thing beyond whether you have a weiner or a vajayjay.

In that context, these people are doing more harm than good, in my view. They're unwittingly reinforcing the idea that gender, as a societal set of rules as opposed to merely a physical attribute, should continue to be a thing that exists.

Will I Am Not

iguana wrote: »

Do you think this is worse than all the parents who force their boys to play sports and won't let their daughters climb trees? Who refuse to get their daughter the Transformer's toys she has her heart set on or their son the Barbie he really wants? Who 'lose' the old handbag their toddler son has taken to carrying around? Or freaks out if he tries on his mother's/sister's lipstick.

Or even more extreme what about all the parents who disown their children for being gay, marrying into the wrong religion or race, getting pregnant outside of marriage, leaving their religion etc.

I don't agree that going to Doty's extreme in this regard are necessary or healthy but they are better parenting and come from a better place than all of the above. Doty just wants to leave the child decide for itself about it's likes and dislikes and figure out their own gender for themselves. That's really not the worst that a parent can do.

I'd consider it worse than anything you mentioned in your first paragraph.

Why list a load of stuff you think bad to try make it sound better anyway?

mick.oleary

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

I'm a social libertarian so my overall outlook on life is that there can be no such thing as a victimless 'wrong' - in other words, everybody should be encouraged to live however the f*ck they want as long as it doesn't harm anyone else. In that context, gender roles involve "rules", and I'm opposed to any and all cultural rules beyond "don't harm anyone".

Great. What brand of Tampons do you use?

Nermal

iguana wrote: »

Doty just wants to leave the child decide for itself about it's likes and dislikes and figure out their own gender for themselves.

Children aren't supposed 'figure out their own gender'. That's not parenting.

mick.oleary

iguana wrote: »

Do you think this is worse than all the parents who force their boys to play sports and won't let their daughters climb trees? Who refuse to get their daughter the Transformer's toys she has her heart set on or their son the Barbie he really wants? Who 'lose' the old handbag their toddler son has taken to carrying around? Or freaks out if he tries on his mother's/sister's lipstick.

Or even more extreme what about all the parents who disown their children for being gay, marrying into the wrong religion or race, getting pregnant outside of marriage, leaving their religion etc.

I don't agree that going to Doty's extreme in this regard are necessary or healthy but they are better parenting and come from a better place than all of the above. Doty just wants to leave the child decide for itself about it's likes and dislikes and figure out their own gender for themselves. That's really not the worst that a parent can do.

Boys should not be playing with Barbie dolls. If you want to raise your kid to be some sissy then go ahead but I won't be giving out to my son for laughing at yours and his Barbie.

gizmo81

Dig beneath the homophobia and transphobia and voila, Misogyny.

mick.oleary wrote: »

Great. What brand of Tampons do you use?

mick.oleary

gizmo81 wrote: »

Dig beneath the homophobia and transphobia and voila, Misogyny.

You don't seem to know what misogyny means.

Noveight

This story is pure nonsense from start to finish. There is no justifying it, the child will suffer later in life because the parent is using it as a pawn in his/her fight.

What a selfish thing to do.

Nermal

gizmo81 wrote: »

Dig beneath the homophobia and transphobia and voila, Misogyny.

Dig beneath the verbiage and voila, pomposity.

Dig beneath the pseudo-intellectualism and voila, meaninglessness.

Dig beneath the PhD in man-spreading and voila, nothing.