14 team Pro 12 from 2017/2018??

irishbucsfan

They're just using the old name because they're old South African geezers

Rigor Mortis

There is another Stadium in Cardiff. The one where City play. Its on the outskirts of the town. Loads of parking around it. IIRC correctly, it is close to the area where they had park and ride for the 2011 HC final. Capacity 33k

Rigor Mortis

Rigor Mortis wrote: »

There is another Stadium in Cardiff. The one where City play. Its on the outskirts of the town. Loads of parking around it. IIRC correctly, it is close to the area where they had park and ride for the 2011 HC final. Capacity 33k

It hosted the Challenge Cup final that year, Quins v Stade I think it was. Wales football team use it rather than the Millennium.

irishbucsfan

Rigor Mortis wrote: »

There is another Stadium in Cardiff. The one where City play. Its on the outskirts of the town. Loads of parking around it. IIRC correctly, it is close to the area where they had park and ride for the 2011 HC final. Capacity 33k

They had the Challenge Cup final there in 2011

bilston

Rumours building that the Sharks want to join the Pro Rugby party as well.

Presumably that won't happen as they can't leave Super Rugby this side of 2020.

After 2020 I think we could potentially be looking at a 20 team tournament with a couple of North American sides and the 6 South African teams.

Ground-breaking stuff....POTENTIALLY...

molloyjh

bilston wrote: »

Rumours building that the Sharks want to join the Pro Rugby party as well.

Presumably that won't happen as they can't leave Super Rugby this side of 2020.

After 2020 I think we could potentially be looking at a 20 team tournament with a couple of North American sides and the 6 South African teams.

Ground-breaking stuff....POTENTIALLY...

Chuck in a Spanish team, a German team (I've been told to keep an eye on them), a Romanian team and that Russian team and we have 24 teams. 2 leagues with promotion and relegation. That wouldn't surprise me at all either.

Erik Shin

If that all comes to pass... it could make the champions cup a little irrelevant...or more likely push it down to the No.2 competition for Celtic league teams

bilston

molloyjh wrote: »

bilston wrote: »

Rumours building that the Sharks want to join the Pro Rugby party as well.

Presumably that won't happen as they can't leave Super Rugby this side of 2020.

After 2020 I think we could potentially be looking at a 20 team tournament with a couple of North American sides and the 6 South African teams.

Ground-breaking stuff....POTENTIALLY...

Chuck in a Spanish team, a German team (I've been told to keep an eye on them), a Romanian team and that Russian team and we have 24 teams. 2 leagues with promotion and relegation. That wouldn't surprise me at all either.

I'd prefer that to conferences.

molloyjh

molloyjh wrote: »

2 leagues

Shougeki

If they worked something out where you play what ever saffer teams in your league all in one go [lets say four teams] it would potentially be doable. Each European team would only travel south once and west to the US once. Would also allow for the saffers to play their away games in blocks up North.

Or if we had a working Hyperloop down through Africa by then, we would be sorted :P

molloyjh

No idea how legit this is, but seems to be from what I can tell...

http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sq1bt2

So expansion is ultimately looking at multiple US teams and possible German teams too down the line. It's about 5-6 weeks old.

Neil3030

So it's all a dastardly ploy by Guinness to target South Africa and America.

Currently PRO12 receive approx. £1millon in sponsorship from Guinness, however the introduction of South African and USA teams could see this rise to £8-10 million per season. In addition there would be increased TV revenues.

I have to say, I'm totally OK with this.

Tigerandahalf

molloyjh wrote: »

No idea how legit this is, but seems to be from what I can tell...

http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sq1bt2

So expansion is ultimately looking at multiple US teams and possible German teams too down the line. It's about 5-6 weeks old.

This seems to have been the initial plan until the S Africans came on board.

The Germans want to enter a team backed by the Capri Sun owner while the Georgians are also prepared to pay a significant sum to join.

Houston in Texas (where the game is growing hugely) is said to be the base for the US team while there could also be one based out of Canada.

So it seems the Pro12 has been putting multiple plans in place with an emphasis on expanding tv revenue.

It would open up fantastic opportunities for fans to travel to places they otherwise wouldn't travel to.

It seems there would be 2 conferences of 7 teams each initially with the top 3 in each conference going into playoffs.

Each team would play home and away against their 6 other conference teams and once against the teams from the other conference making a total of 19 games.

Perhaps there will be extra games to make up the home and away element of the local derbies, i.e. Leinster and Munster would get to play home and away no matter what.

There are suggestions that Edinburgh and Glasgow would play against each other 3 times instead of 2. But they would still need to play an extra game to match the Irish teams unless the Irish play one less game against each other.

Reading online there are suggestions they want to reduce the amount of league games during international windows as national team players are absent. That might be even more important for the newer teams as they wouldn't have the depth. All speculation of course.

Apparently an announcement is being made by the Pro12 tomorrow.

thomond2006

I'm actually excited about a Pro12 fixture announcement.

thomond2006

thomond2006 wrote: »

I'm actually excited about a Pro12 fixture announcement.

Yeah **** it, whole thing is mental and I can't help but feel it's going to fail miserably but hopefully the fans (in SA and up here) get behind it and make it a success.

errlloyd

I am definitely going to the games in South Africa, if I can get two in 10 days even better.

molloyjh

thomond2006 wrote: »

I'm actually excited about a Pro12 fixture announcement.

Yeah, feck it. Like IO I don't see it working out, but I'm really curious to see how it goes. Especially with the potential to further expand it and possibly go down the road of multiple leagues. Time to row in behind it and hope for the best. And if it does manage to bring in a good chunk more revenue then there's a clear silver lining there regardless.

LeinsterDub

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

This seems to have been the initial plan until the S Africans came on board.

The Germans want to enter a team backed by the Capri Sun owner while the Georgians are also prepared to pay a significant sum to join.

Houston in Texas (where the game is growing hugely) is said to be the base for the US team while there could also be one based out of Canada.

CMOTDibbler

molloyjh wrote: »

Yeah, feck it. Like IO I don't see it working out, but I'm really curious to see how it goes. Especially with the potential to further expand it and possibly go down the road of multiple leagues. Time to row in behind it and hope for the best. And if it does manage to bring in a good chunk more revenue then there's a clear silver lining there regardless.

If it's going to be as speculated, it's certainly a bold move. The Pro 12 needed to do something to compete with the big boys and this certainly looks like a step in that direction.

How it will all pan out is hard to know, but I applaud them for at least trying to do something to expand the game.

Winters

I would certainly have concerns and hope that we are not just making the same mistakes that Super Rugby is getting chastised for at the moment.

LeinsterDub

Winters wrote: »

I would certainly have concerns and hope that we are not just making the same mistakes that Super Rugby is getting chastised for at the moment.

To a degree this is the last throw of the dice for the Pro 12 teams. If we don't do something now we'll become also runs in the face of English and French buying power. The logic appears to be go big or go home.

Tigerandahalf

LeinsterDub wrote: »

To a degree this is the last throw of the dice for the Pro 12 teams. If we don't do something now we'll become also runs in the face of English and French buying power. The logic appears to be go big or go home.

A lot of this is due to the 2 S African teams being contracted to Super Rugby until 2020. If they took their case to court Super Rugby would have to pay up. Thus I guess they are happy for these 2 provinces to go to the pro12.

What all this means for Super Rugby in the long term is a wonder. Would NZ and Australia be worried that S Africa would move on block to Europe. What does World Rugby think of all this?

I wonder how much tv revenue S Africa would bring as the rand is pretty weak.

Winters

If all the South African teams come up north and join the Pro[insert number here] post 2020 what will become of Super Rugby?

Edit, just saw you asked the same question..

Neil3030

I for one welcome our New World overlords.

LeinsterDub

Does this we can finally tell the Welsh to stop whinging if they hate the league so much there's the door?

molloyjh

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Does this we can finally tell the Welsh to stop whinging if they hate the league so much there's the door?

If only. I still laugh when I think of the "Welsh ref, Irish conspiracy" nonsense from the final in May after constantly prattling on about how Irish refs for Irish provinces prove the Irish conspiracy. Proof, if it were needed, that there's no logic and no winning with that particular brigade.

LeinsterDub

The Shark's rumor
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11890153

Rigor Mortis

In fairness, if the Sharks came voluntarily, it would make a far more positive statement about the future of the league. It would also significantly strengthen the interest from a TV rights point of view in SA. Third largest city in SA, adds another 3.5m to the pot.

LeinsterDub

The issue with 15 is uneven conferences. We certainly don't want 3 conferences of 5

bilston

thomond2006 wrote: »

I'm actually excited about a Pro12 fixture announcement.

It's quite exciting, but like others I worry a bit about the format they come up with.

The extra Inter Pros will be fine...but I'd rather they didn't count towards the league. It just makes it all a little more complicated.

LeinsterDub

LeinsterDub wrote: »

The issue with 15 is uneven conferences. We certainly don't want 3 conferences of 5

3 * 5 would work out ok wouldn't it? Play everyone in your conference twice, play everyone else once and that's 18 games.

LeinsterDub

Armani Shy Bun wrote: »

3 * 5 would work out ok wouldn't it? Play everyone in your conference twice, play everyone else once and that's 18 games.

It certainly works but just increases the confusion and further splits up the Irish sides

LeinsterDub

One major benefit of this we may actually get some decent refs

Shougeki

LeinsterDub wrote: »

The issue with 15 is uneven conferences. We certainly don't want 3 conferences of 5

Well if Zebre fold into Treviso and move to rome as was mooted a few months ago ?

Shougeki

Armani Shy Bun wrote: »

3 * 5 would work out ok wouldn't it? Play everyone in your conference twice, play everyone else once and that's 18 games.

The main issue with the Super Rugby league atm, from what I gather, is the fractured system of too many conferences....

LeinsterDub

Shougeki wrote: »

Well if Zebre fold into Treviso and move to rome as was mooted a few months ago ?

Pro12 have confirmed that 2 Italian teams will play till at least 2020
http://www.onrugby.it/2017/07/13/amerino-zatta-lallargamento-del-pro12-una-grande-opportunita/

Buer

Kings are playing the Cheetahs on Sky currently. Some completely stupid play but entertaining stuff too.

Shougeki

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Pro12 have confirmed that 2 Italian teams will play till at least 2020
http://www.onrugby.it/2017/07/13/amerino-zatta-lallargamento-del-pro12-una-grande-opportunita/

Well we saw those contracts can be circumvented if both parties agree - ie Kings and Cheetahs leaving SR. If the Italians were to be given better funding/conditions I am sure they may be amicable to going to one team....

LeinsterDub

Shougeki wrote: »

Well we saw those contracts can be circumvented if both parties agree - ie Kings and Cheetahs leaving SR. If the Italians were to be given better funding/conditions I am sure they may be amicable to going to one team....

This was published yesterday. Can only see it changing with the agreement of the Italian Union.

Guy:Incognito

When is the pro12 fixture announcement?

LeinsterDub

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

When is the pro12 fixture announcement?

Announcements around new teams expected mid next week apparently. So soon after that

Stormerswp

Was just told by someone in the know that apparently the SA players don't want to play in the pro 12?very reliable source

pickarooney

Stormerswp wrote: »

Was just told by someone in the know that apparently the SA players don't want to play in the pro 12?very reliable source

What do they want to do instead?

Erik Shin

pickarooney wrote: »

What do they want to do instead?

They want to stay with the Big Boks I think

Stormerswp

pickarooney wrote: »

What do they want to do instead?

Apparently they want to play in Japan as its more lucrative for them

Stormerswp

Erik Shin wrote: »

They want to stay with the Big Boks I think

U the same guy that said I was talking BS when I mentioned months and months ago that rassie was 100% going back to SA to take up role with Soringboks???same source told me about the players now.

sydthebeat

Stormerswp wrote: »

Apparently they want to play in Japan as its more lucrative for them

Unless they get offered contracts to go there, they've no option.

I'd love to work less hours for more money in an exotic country but.......

pickarooney

Stormerswp wrote: »

Apparently they want to play in Japan as its more lucrative for them

Has Japan said anything? The travel times would be insane but I suppose they could base themselves over there for a month at a time. I've never watched the Japanese league. Would the Kings and Cheetahs tear it up?

Shefwedfan

I want them playing in Pro12, the only request is that we get to see more of Jaco Peyper......

At least once a month

Of course he can ref all the Munster match's :-)

Burkie1203

pickarooney wrote: »

Has Japan said anything? The travel times would be insane but I suppose they could base themselves over there for a month at a time. I've never watched the Japanese league. Would the Kings and Cheetahs tear it up?

The time zone thing favours joining pro12. Certainly from TV perspective. Would two SA teams be admitted to the Japanese league? It hasnt even been mooted as a rumour

Im sure there are players who would like to go to Japan to play but the franchises would much prefer Europe