Dumping rubbish at beaches

ThisRegard

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

It is muppetry of the highest order that Dublin City doesn't have adequate public bins to deal with people actually using the public outdoor spaces.

Your view of who the muppets are is somewhat misguided.

hatrickpatrick

SteM wrote: »

If they're old enough to buy the beer then they're old enough to be responsible for cleaning up after themselves. Most of those lazy ****s didn't even bother trying to clean up after themselves, you're just giving them an easy way out.

Ok, so what do you suggest they do? Would you find it acceptable for people to pile rubbish directly beside / leaning against overflowing bins, if they weren't in a position to bring it with them to wherever their next destination was?

I agree that leaving it strewn everywhere is scummy, but equally I find the "bring it home" mantra ridiculous when everyone knows that for young people at least, they're almost certainly moving on to a venue of some kind, most likely with security / doormen who would absolutely forbid anyone from coming inside with a bunch of empty containers.

hatrickpatrick

ThisRegard wrote: »

Your view of who the muppets are is somewhat misguided.

I don't agree. If you're in a position in which it is simply impossible to dispose of anything without literally cancelling the rest of your plans for the evening on account of inadequate bin provision by DCC, then again, what exactly are you supposed to do? Are you honestly suggesting that somebody who has come to the city centre for the day from somewhere like Bray or Howth should have to take a half hour + journey home for the five minutes it takes dump their empties, and come back into town again on another half hour + journey so that they can continue their evening? Are you suggesting that if it's too late for them to take public transport back into town after doing this, they should have to fork out €30+ for a taxi back into town or else just call their mates and tell them they won't be showing up after all to wherever it was they had intended on going? It's a moronic suggestion. Public spaces should have public waste disposal that is calculated to accommodate the pedestrian capacity of the space, end of story.

Yourself isit

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

I don't agree. If you're in a position in which it is simply impossible to dispose of anything without literally cancelling the rest of your plans for the evening on account of inadequate bin provision by DCC, then again, what exactly are you supposed to do? Are you honestly suggesting that somebody who has come to the city centre for the day from somewhere like Bray or Howth should have to take a half hour + journey home for the five minutes it takes dump their empties, and come back into town again on another half hour + journey so that they can continue their evening? Are you suggesting that if it's too late for them to take public transport back into town after doing this, they should have to fork out €30+ for a taxi back into town or else just call their mates and tell them they won't be showing up after all to wherever it was they had intended on going? It's a moronic suggestion. Public spaces should have public waste disposal that is calculated to accommodate the pedestrian capacity of the space, end of story.

Lol. Yes they should take their empties with them. Or not bring the bottles in the first place.

This whole argument is nonsense anyway. If you had 100 bins on or close to beaches there would still be dumping.

hatrickpatrick

Yourself isit wrote: »

Lol. Yes they should take their empties with them. Or not bring the bottles in the first place.

This whole argument is nonsense anyway. If you had 100 bins on or close to beaches there would still be dumping.

That's true, but it would be indefensible in that scenario. Personally I fully empathise with the people who were at the canal yesterday and wanted to clean up but couldn't.

Again: If people were to pile stuff directly beside the bins which were overflowing, would you still have a problem with that? Again, "they should take their empties with them" is a ridiculous comment if they're heading to, for instance, the bar directly behind that spot on the canal, which has bouncers and certainly wouldn't have let anyone in with an armful of rubbish.

It's totally impractical to expect people to use outdoor spaces on busy, crowded days and not provide a proper system of waste disposal for those people.

ThisRegard

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

I don't agree. If you're in a position in which it is simply impossible to dispose of anything without literally cancelling the rest of your plans for the evening on account of inadequate bin provision by DCC, then again, what exactly are you supposed to do? Are you honestly suggesting that somebody who has come to the city centre for the day from somewhere like Bray or Howth should have to take a half hour + journey home for the five minutes it takes dump their empties, and come back into town again on another half hour + journey so that they can continue their evening? Are you suggesting that if it's too late for them to take public transport back into town after doing this, they should have to fork out €30+ for a taxi back into town or else just call their mates and tell them they won't be showing up after all to wherever it was they had intended on going? It's a moronic suggestion. Public spaces should have public waste disposal that is calculated to accommodate the pedestrian capacity of the space, end of story.

I'm suggesting they're scummy for dumping, full stop. I don't care for their excuses. You seem to protest too much.

Public spaces are not for assholes to go on drinking sessions in, so they have no consideration for others right from the outset. Are there no pubs in Howth or Bray, or is knacker drinking around families and kids another thing you're ok with?

This is what you're defending

hatrickpatrick

ThisRegard wrote: »

I'm suggesting they're scummy for dumping, full stop. I don't care for their excuses. You seem to protest too much.

Public spaces are not for assholes to go on drinking sessions in, so they have no consideration for others right from the outset. Are there no pubs in Howth or Bray, or is knacker drinking around families and kids another thing you're ok with?

This is what you're defending

Of course I'm ok with it, as long as people are minding their own business.

Again: I'm not defending the mess. The people who left sh!t on the grass instead of piling it up next to the bins are assholes, I'm simply attacking the ridiculous "bring it home" mantra which deliberately ignores the fact that most people don't go straight home after a sunny day out.

If it was a sh!tload of people having alcohol-free picnics before going to the cinema or a concert there'd have been just as much rubbish - again, neither venue would have let people bring rubbish in with them. Would you have been just as pissed off if that was the case?

SteM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Ok, so what do you suggest they do? Would you find it acceptable for people to pile rubbish directly beside / leaning against overflowing bins, if they weren't in a position to bring it with them to wherever their next destination was?

I agree that leaving it strewn everywhere is scummy, but equally I find the "bring it home" mantra ridiculous when everyone knows that for young people at least, they're almost certainly moving on to a venue of some kind, most likely with security / doormen who would absolutely forbid anyone from coming inside with a bunch of empty containers.

What do I expect them to do? Act like adults and clear up after themselves. Are you telling me there would have been no empty bins between where they were drinking and whatever venue they were going to? Is it too much to ask that people put a bit of effort into cleaning up after themselves? Do they get a free pass just because there isn't an empty bin right where they were? They had no problem getting the cans, bottles and pizza boxes there in the first pace, that took a bit of effort but that was before they got pissed and lazy of course.

Yourself isit

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Of course I'm ok with it, as long as people are minding their own business.

Again: I'm not defending the mess. The people who left sh!t on the grass instead of piling it up next to the bins are assholes, I'm simply attacking the ridiculous "bring it home" mantra which deliberately ignores the fact that most people don't go straight home after a sunny day out.

If it was a sh!tload of people having alcohol-free picnics before going to the cinema or a concert there'd have been just as much rubbish - again, neither venue would have let people bring rubbish in with them. Would you have been just as pissed off if that was the case?

What are you talking about? You think it's ok to dump crap on the ground because the next venue might not allow you to bring stuff in?

Ludicrous.

ThisRegard

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

If it was a sh!tload of people having alcohol-free picnics before going to the cinema or a concert there'd have been just as much rubbish - again, neither venue would have let people bring rubbish in with them. Would you have been just as pissed off if that was the case?

Absolutely, why wouldn't I be bothered? Dumping is dumping. There will have been plenty of bins between there and wherever they were going to.

hatrickpatrick

ThisRegard wrote: »

Absolutely, why wouldn't I be bothered? Dumping is dumping. There will have been plenty of bins between there and wherever they were going to.

There weren't. I walked from that exact spot to a house party (took my empties with my FYI) and every bin from Portobello to Stephen's Green was similarly jammed right up to the top. If people were going to the pub right behind that exact spot on the canal, you'd be asking them to walk as far as Trinity first just to get rid of their stuff.

The public bin situation in both Dublin and Dun Laoghaire (can't really speak for other Dublin council areas) has been getting worse and worse for several years, which is why I'm so adamant here. This is not the first time I've seen something like this and it won't be the last. Here's a contrast for you: Almost nobody leave dog sh!te on Dun Laoghaire pier because there are bins spaced at very regular intervals for it. Walk as far as Glasthule and Sandycove, however, and it's an entirely different story - there are about five public bins for the entire stretch of coastline from the Baths building to Sandycove beach, and on nice days they're almost always full and overflowing.

Let's go back to the "bring it home" argument. I live around the corner so that's no hassle to me. But if someone brings their dog all the way from greystones, are you honestly suggesting that the minute he/she takes a sh!te, the owner should have to immediately hop in their car and drive home with it, even if they've only just arrived?

This isn't condoning the littering but it is saying that the councils should be rightly condemned for making it massively inconvenient and in some cases downright impossible for people to do the right thing without tearing up their schedule for the day.

I apply the same logic to public urination. There's no excuse for it around Sandycove because there are several public toilets available which are almost always functional. But I've every sympathy with someone who's walking from say Vincent's hospital to Dun Laoghaire on a nice day and needs to take a piss half way through - there simply isn't a single public toilet between those two points, and any business you pass along the way is for customer use only.

You can be frustrated at the council for making doing the wrong thing the most convenient option (and in some cases the only realistic option) without actually defending the people doing the wrong thing.

NIMAN

Its the underclass that seems to be increasing in this country that is the source of this type of anti-social behaviour.

To them, its someone else's problem to clean it up. As long as they can come, make use of the facilities, mess, then bugger off.

In the NW in Donegal, we have an issue with Northerners doing same thing. (not all of course, but enough of them).

McGrath5

Typical dirty Irish.

I was down by Portobello on Sunday morning and it was an absolute disgrace the condition the place was in from the previous night.

Guy:Incognito

razorblunt wrote: »

I can understand leaving it by the bin, yes it's unsightly, but one would think the council may take proactive action and schedule an early morning pickup the day after a reasonably good day weather wise.

Leaving it by the bin is definitely preferred to leaving it on the beach itself.

I can't understand leaving it by the bin. It's the same as dumping it anywhere else on the ground. If the binmen are not around that day ( not that it's their job to go gathering up rubbish anyway) then it's going to end up all over the place, either by the weather or animals ( some of the human variety too) If you can manage to get it to the beach you can take it away the same way.

thebaz

same out in Dun Laoghaire - loads of people come out - and loads mainly young just dump there rubbish expecting someone else to pick up - used a lot of Amrerican beaches and they are so much cleaner - the people as a society would not put up with it - but in Ireland its like littering is part of our culture - and if you challenge you get a load of mouthy lip -its horrible - more people should stand up to it - I do and a few others, **** the dirty looks too.

namloc1980

Family near me have no bins. The husband "deposits" bags of rubbish into the neighbours bins early on collection day. He's been caught doing it a few times and fcuked out of it. Still doesn't stop him.

ThisRegard

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Let's go back to the "bring it home" argument. I live around the corner so that's no hassle to me. But if someone brings their dog all the way from greystones, are you honestly suggesting that the minute he/she takes a sh!te, the owner should have to immediately hop in their car and drive home with it, even if they've only just arrived?

Why are you making up problems, sensible people would carry it with them or leave it by their car and then bring it with them.

Are you suggesting that you would think it's ok to leave it in such cases, I don't understand what point you're trying to make.

Richard Hillman

A tough love approach may be needed. No beach clean up for the month of July. Then when August comes and Johnny & Jacinta are swimming in their own rubbish they may get the message.

jackofalltrades

There's a couple of issues at play here.

1. The bins provided aren't good enough.
2. A lot of people have no bin collection service, so the whole country is their dump. They can't bring their rubbish home.
3. If you intervene you'll be told to f*ck off.
4. If you ring the guards they'll have other things to do.
5. Any form of authority that isn't a Guard will be told to f*ck off.

For a developed country we seem to lack a greater sense of society.

Irish Guitarist

What I don't get is all the clothes. You'd have to be a particularly lazy cunt to not be bothered picking up your shoes and socks.

CB19Kevo

People can try and make all the excuses they want,But people damn well need to take personal responsibility.
The beach is a place to have fun but its a public area and there should be zero tolerance of anti social behavior.

Simple point was made already by another poster,If they managed to bring the items on to the beach they surely can take them away when leaving.


Some people are just scum,We need to change our ways in this country.

Tombo2001

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Couldn't disagree with this more.

Firstly - think through the logic of it; council workers collecting refuse, low paid workers doing an unpleasant job with no incentive system/ bonus structure for working extra hours (because the 'public' wouldn't tolerate it).

And you expect these people to work extra shifts on the random weekend that the sun shines......why exactly? Because that's what they are paid to do? No they aren't.

Secondly......Person at the beach doesn't pick up their rubbish - and its someone elses fault? Because there was nowhere to put the rubbish? They don't have a bin in their own house? They were able to BRING all the plastic containers, cans etc onto the beach when they were full. But they cant Bring them away when they are empty.....?

Of course - its the councils fault.

Specious post. Nobody is saying it's the council's fault. What is being said is there is a massive problem with people littering at beaches and part of the solution is to have council workers working overtime to tidy up this mess at the weekend. That is 100% correct. There are other parts to the solution, such as the installation of cctv followed by prosecution and publicisation of names of aforesaid knackers. This does not negate the necessity for workers to be on site at the weekend. Not by any means.

It is also nonsense to claim that council workers would not get overtime for working at the weekend. From solving problems arising from flooding, storms and much else they can, and do, get extra pay. It doesn't mean they are responsible for the floods and storms just because they are needed as part of the solution.

jonnycivic

jonnycivic wrote: »

Well leaving it by the bin more than likely the bin men will take it and dispose of it.

razorblunt wrote: »

I can understand leaving it by the bin, yes it's unsightly, but one would think the council may take proactive action and schedule an early morning pickup the day after a reasonably good day weather wise.

Absolutely not. I cannot abide this mentality - and every second person who visits my local recycling facility seems to be of the same mind as both of you. Litter goes in a bin. If the bin is full report it to the council (a simple phonecall; in my experience they are pretty decent at emptying it quickly once they're notified). At Christmas the whole recycling facility car park in my area resembles a dump. If there's no room in the bin, bring it home. Leaving it outside the bin is littering by any definition.

AudreyHepburn

People who do this are lazy and selfish, nothing less.

It's not that hard to pick up after yourself.

I would strongly support a name and shame campaign against people caught littering, with fines attached to their social welfare if necessary.

I have phoned Dublin City Council's number to report littering when people in vehicles in front of me are throwing stuff out the window but I doubt they are ever followed up. Quite simply, nobody in political life is pushing for the essential cultural change that prosecuting littering relentlessly (with public humiliation of, as well as fines on, offenders) will force upon society. A very public zero tolerance for littering is essential.

The economic argument for having a clean country is enormous so even the ignorant money-obsessed, anti-environmentalist toerags in the Blueshirts and Fianna Fáil should, rationally speaking, be supportive. There's so little sense of society in any meaningful way when it requires even a tiny bit of participation and sacrifice by everybody. In contrast, we have the thousands of people from Ballycastle to Tralee who volunteer with their local Tidy Towns. Hugely respectful compared to the political apathy on littering.

Are Am Eye

Get a chain gang out from Oberstown to clean up the beach.

Teach them the meaning of a days work.

Doctor Nick

Deleted User wrote: »

I would strongly support a name and shame campaign against people caught littering, with fines attached to their social welfare if necessary.

I have phoned Dublin City Council's number to report littering when people in vehicles in front of me are throwing stuff out the window but I doubt they are ever followed up. Quite simply, nobody in political life is pushing for the essential cultural change that prosecuting littering relentlessly (with public humiliation of, as well as fines on, offenders) will force upon society. A very public zero tolerance for littering is essential.

The economic argument for having a clean country is enormous so even the ignorant money-obsessed, anti-environmentalist toerags in the Blueshirts and Fianna Fáil should, rationally speaking, be supportive. There's so little sense of society in any meaningful way when it requires even a tiny bit of participation and sacrifice by everybody. In contrast, we have the thousands of people from Ballycastle to Tralee who volunteer with their local Tidy Towns. Hugely respectful compared to the political apathy on littering.

Do you think that only those on Social Welfare litter?

Outside my office they had photos of people who had been littering in the laneway. It was disgusting what people used to dump there. Once the photos went up the litter stopped so I think that should be done Nationwide. You'd be surprised at some of the people who did it. Old people, young people, male, female, people in tracksuits, people in suits, people on foot, people in Beamers. It was not restricted to any demographic. The posh folk were as bad as the scummer folk.

Doctor Nick

Doctor Nick wrote: »

Do you think that only those on Social Welfare litter?

Outside my office they had photos of people who had been littering in the laneway. It was disgusting what people used to dump there. Once the photos went up the litter stopped so I think that should be done Nationwide. You'd be surprised at some of the people who did it. Old people, young people, male, female, people in tracksuits, people in suits, people on foot, people in Beamers. It was not restricted to any demographic. The posh folk were as bad as the scummer folk.

'If necessary' implies that if they are on welfare they should have that money deducted at source so they cannot go to court and plead the béal bocht. The rest of the offenders can be pursued through the normal channels.

Agree fully with publicising the names and faces of all the offenders.

Ted Plain

A couple of years ago I was in County Clare and was struck by how clean the place was, so this does not seem to be a problem everywhere in the country. Are the people of Clare more conscientious of keeping their county clean than elsewhere? Other places like Adare and Kilkenny City are spotless, so how do they do it?

The Tidy Towns is back on at this time of the year and the volunteers really do a great job, but people still litter unashamedly in areas which have just been cleaned up. People really do it openly as if it's the most natural thing in the world. Litter pollution is something I would like the government to properly address. It's long overdue.

The lack of bins is no excuse. If I hit the park/beach/forest with a bag of cans I leave with a bag of empty cans. If I've a box of bottles I leave with a box of empty bottles.