'Multiple shooting' at congressional baseball game practice field

jobbridge4life

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

Link me to one Democrat Politician calling out the antifa.

https://www.facebook.com/GavinNewsom/photos/a.75229533116.73338.10128918116/10155100630108117/?type=3&theater

California Democratic Lt Governor Gavin Newsom condeming Berkeley riot.

Skylinehead

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

Standard retort to someone bringing up Alex Jones et al in this thread. The dude shall abide though.

Yeah I should make this far more general. Everyone stop with the antifa and Alex Jones and whatever ****e :P

Hank Scorpio

jobbridge4life wrote: »

https://www.facebook.com/GavinNewsom/photos/a.75229533116.73338.10128918116/10155100630108117/?type=3&theater

California Democratic Lt Governor Gavin Newsom condeming Berkeley riot.

Lol. Where does he mention the Antifa, his statement reads like the violence was a reaction to "white supremacist attacks", when in fact what actually happened was a bunch of people dressed in black hiding their faces showed up and started attacking Trump supporters including Women with sticks, lighting fires and smashing up buildings including parts of the college and surrounding buildings along the campus .

Did you even read what he wrote? Such tolerance, much wow.

Edit: Just seen above Mod post, I'm done with this topic.

greencap

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Just another day in 'Murica. When guns are easy to get as a toaster, and large amounts of lunatics carry them, this will be an almost daily occurrence.

Its never ending.

The gun problem in the US is so severe that its like withdrawal at this stage, if the cause was taken away tomorrow the patient would die.

So ironically the pro-gun nuts are actually right in some regards.

That they think they're actually somehow winning, by putting themselves in un-necessary danger, is another topic.

I do sometimes wonder how many victims in these various shootings were pro-gun, and wonder what thought went through their head as a local whacked out teen slid through the stadium doors with his 'hunting' assault rifle.

experience talking with gun nuts leads me to believe it may well have been something along the lines of 'my spraying with a 45 round magazine doesn't mean that the weapon wasn't designed for hunting grouse'.

that or 'oh fck maybe i was wrong'.

probably the earlier.

wes

https://www.massshootingtracker.org/data

195 mass shootings in the USA so far this year. The amount of gun violence in the US is pretty awful, and this latest incident is just the latest. Hopefully, all the victims pull through.

greencap

wes wrote: »

https://www.massshootingtracker.org/data

195 mass shootings in the USA so far this year. The amount of gun violence in the US is pretty awful, and this latest incident is just the latest. Hopefully, all the victims pull through.

Yeah but thats just the price of freedom.

You see if there weren't citizens armed with near military grade firearms it would mean that the government could turn on them, for the craic like.

But because the citizenry has these light armaments it means that they can stop the US govt military forces.

Air support, drone technology, pinpoint artillery and armored vehicles that even rockets just bounce off....doesn't matter.

It worked in the 1700's so that means that it must definitely work again.

Thats how life works - everything that worked yesterday necessarily works today.

circadian

Really Interested wrote: »

Weird that the Portland guy and this recent attack had something in common both campaigned in last years election season both for same candidate, Bernie Saunders! WTF!

Any relation to Dean?

Really Interested

circadian wrote: »

Any relation to Dean?

Who is dean?

Water John

Its Sanders, get it.
For Saunders, you can have Dean, Jennifer et al.

Overheal

I'm already ****ing sick of people trying to talk about this issue. Trying to say "ohp, it's always the

doing this". And taking it to absurd extremes like "herp no the Charleston shooter was a liberal." And I think, on that one claim alone, I myself felt enraged toward that man's sheer ignorance of matters he knew **** all about. Blatant lying at the expense of dead people to prove a cheap political point for 5 minutes.

A reality TV star became the president by campaigning on a platform that smeared journalism as a sham and political correctness as a joke, then when the same Shakespeare play as had happened when it portrayed Obama 5 years ago, portrays current President Trump being stabbed, people abruptly lose their ****.

You can all but predict when these attacks will happen though, that is granted. Gabby Giffords was shot during a highly divisive midterm election season and actors like Sarah Palin had ratcheted up rhetoric against political 'targets' that needed to be unseated from office. The Center for Media Progress doctored up some videos of planned parenthood wheeling and dealing in aborted fetus body parts, and promptly a shooter answered the call! And now, Republicans are all but protecting their man with the R- in front of his name, while they are trying to pass an unmitigated disaster of a healthcare plan to 'replace' Obamacare with, and if you go online you will find all sorts of nuttiness both ways, with trolls and psychos alike calling other fellow Americans 'subhuman' and all the rest, for having different political views, and that's just the tip of it. Frankly, i'm not shocked that Scalise was targeted, after all but dancing around about how great it was that people were going to be flung off their healthcare plans. http://scalise.house.gov/press-release/scalise-passage-ahca-today-we-made-history

This isn't a good day for anybody. This is a **** ****ing day.

gandalf

TBH this is just another example of why guns should be removed from the reach of ordinary citizens in US society. FFS this lad had form from reading his bio. There is no way he should have had access to weapons given his past. Now watch as all the players involved will invoke all sorts of debate whilst they continue to dance around the real reason which is the continued access to military grade weapons by ordinary US citizens.

RobertKK

A radicalised Bernie Sanders supporter who hates Trump, the new threat...

Overheal

A cellphone video is available online, nothing graphic. But you can get a sense for the scene, the length of the incident and the crossfire

http://nypost.com/2017/06/14/the-moment-the-gop-shooter-opened-fire/

Cookie_Monster

super_furry wrote: »

Giving everyone a gun really is a wonderful terrible idea.

yeah, in america it is. Most countries full of actual adults seem to manage pretty well.

Overheal

RobertKK wrote: »

A radicalised Bernie Sanders supporter who hates Trump, the new threat...

Oh no, keep going. You want to make fun of the surface, for your own political advantage, but keep going. Yes, he supported Bernie, he was also a small business owner and he also had a lengthy criminal record for violence. Apparently, last year his business fell apart and he had up to today been living out of a local YMCA and a duffelbag. He was homeless. Already predisposed to violence, it didn't help that he was left out in the rain while Republicans he dehumanized, pontificated on the need to slash healthcare and social supports while producing tax cuts for wealthy campaign contributors.

What we can take away from most mass shooters in the US is that most of them are white and male, and many if not all of them come from difficult backgrounds, including poverty and radicalization whether it comes from a church, a viral youtube video, or what have you. They come from all manner of political backgrounds, including the lack of (nihilism). All that normally comes out of these 'gun' debates, is the conclusion that as a society, we can inflict the best mitigation of these attacks by at the very least taking measures to promote stability for the most vulnerable people of the population (the sick, the elderly, the homeless) and to make investments in mental health. FDR if I recall, in the New Deal, (or it was JFK?) enacted some legislation to establish nationwide mental health facilities that unfortunately, were defunded a short time later by the Congress and little came of it. To this day we still threaten to cut off PBS, too, but I will leave this somewhat old congressional testimony from Mr. Rogers on the subject of the importance of mental health, and the benefit of his programming. Some senators at the time commented directly that his comments by and large earned PBS its continued funding, and it's I think very helpful to look back to when politicians spoke slower and more thoughtfully and weren't afraid of accepting that someone else's idea was good.

Overheal

As I continue seeing more and more asinine, dehumanizing comments online about this somehow only being a leftwing issue that is somehow destroying America, I feel people must be reminded that there is plenty of violence to go around and that this is again, not an issue of political beliefs.

Pre-2001[edit]
According to George Michael, "right-wing terrorism and violence has a long history in America".[28] Right-wing violent incidents began to outnumber Marxist incidents in the United States during the 1980s and 1990s.[29]:29 Michael observes the waning of left-wing terrorism accompanying the rise of right-wing terrorism, with a noticeable "convergence" of the goals of militant Islam with those of the extreme right. Islamic studies scholar Youssef M. Choueiri classified Islamic fundamentalist movements involving revivalism, reformism, and radicalism as within the scope of "right-wing politics".[30]:9

During the 1980s, more than 75 right-wing extremists were prosecuted in the United States for acts of terrorism, carrying out six attacks.[31] In 1983, Gordon Kahl, a Posse Comitatus activist, killed two federal marshals and was later killed by police. Also that year, the white nationalist revolutionary group The Order (also known as the Brüder Schweigen or Silent Brotherhood) robbed banks and armored cars, as well as a sex shop,[32] bombed a theater and a synagogue and murdered radio talk show host Alan Berg.[33][34]

The April 19, 1995 attack on the Murrah federal building in Oklahoma by Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols killed 168 people and was the deadliest act of domestic terrorism in the history of the United States.[35] McVeigh stated that it was retaliation for the government's actions at Ruby Ridge and Waco.[36] McVeigh attended Michigan Militia gun shows.[37][38]

Eric Rudolph executed a series of terrorist attacks between 1996 and 1998. He carried out the 1996 Centennial Olympic Park bombing—which claimed two lives and injured 111—aiming to cancel the games, claiming they promoted global socialism and to embarrass the U.S. government.[39] Rudolph confessed to bombing an abortion clinic in Sandy Springs, an Atlanta suburb, on January 16, 1997, the Otherside Lounge, an Atlanta lesbian bar, on February 21, 1997, injuring five and an abortion clinic in Birmingham, Alabama on January 29, 1998, killing Birmingham police officer and part-time clinic security guard Robert Sanderson and critically injuring nurse Emily Lyons.

Post-2001[edit]
As of June 2015, right-wing attacks since the September 11 attacks (9/11) had claimed more lives (48) than attacks committed by jihadists (26).[40] Thereafter, jihadist terrorist attacks (the 2015 San Bernardino attack and the 2016 Orlando nightclub shooting) raised the Islamic extremist death toll above that caused by right-wing extremists. As of July 2016, the New America Foundation placed the number killed in terrorist attacks in the U.S. (since 9/11) as follows: 94 killed in jihadist terrorist attacks, 50 killed in far-right attacks, and 5 killed in far-left attacks.[41]

New America's tally shows 21 instances of right-wing terrorist attacks causing 53 fatalities since September 11, 2001. These were:[41]

The 2017 stabbing of Timothy Caughman in New York City (1 killed),
The 2015 Colorado Springs Planned Parenthood shooting (3 killed),
The 2015 Charleston church shooting (9 killed),
The 2014 ambush attack on Las Vegas police officers (5 killed),
The 2014 Pennsylvania State Police barracks attack in Blooming Grove, Pennsylvania (1 killed),
A 2012 tri-state killing spree by white supremacists, David Pedersen and Holly Grigsby (4 killed),
A 2012 ambush of St. John the Baptist Parish, Louisiana police (2 killed),
The 2012 Wisconsin Sikh temple shooting (6 killed),
The 2011 FEAR group attacks (3 killed),
A murder in 2010 in Carlisle, Pennsylvania (1 killed),
A 2010 suicide attack by airplane in Austin, Texas (1 killed),
The 2009 shooting of Pittsburgh police officers (3 killed),
The 2009 United States Holocaust Memorial Museum shooting (1 killed),
The 2009 assassination of George Tiller (1 killed),
The 2009 murders of Raul and Brisenia Flores in Pima County, Arizona (2 killed),
The 2009 murders in Brockton, Massachusetts (2 killed),
The 2008 Knoxville Unitarian Universalist church shooting (2 killed),
And the 2004 bank robbery in Tulsa, Oklahoma (1 killed).
According to the Government Accountability Office of the United States, 73% of violent extremist incidents that resulted in deaths since September 12, 2001 were caused by right wing extremists groups.[42][43]

Hande hoche!

On the plus side the charity baseball game should raise more money based on all the publicity.

Overheal

silverharp wrote: »

Probably a registered democrat , 50 shots fired and no one killed, cant have had much in the way of weapons training.

Incidentally, this was the morbid laugh I needed today.

Hande hoche!

silverharp wrote: »

Probably a registered democrat , 50 shots fired and no one killed, cant have had much in the way of weapons training.

He was probably using a Klobb.

RandomName2

Overheal wrote: »

As I continue seeing more and more asinine, dehumanizing comments online about this somehow only being a leftwing issue that is somehow destroying America, I feel people must be reminded that there is plenty of violence to go around and that this is again, not an issue of political beliefs.

Just going to say that 53 deaths in a 16 year period is an irrelevant number. Sure 13 people were killed in the fort hood shooting in 2009 alone.

Though your other points, I must admit, make sense.

I can't understand people being appalled by things like this or Gabby Gifford getting shot when they also say that part of the need for everyone to have weapons is to stand up to the government.

RandomName2

Deleted User wrote: »

I can't understand people being appalled by things like this or Gabby Gifford getting shot when they also say that part of the need for everyone to have weapons is to stand up to the government.

I think the meaning is the institution of the government: which is daft. A gun will never give you as an individual any protection against the government.

As a mob potentially guns can give you power, but incidents like Wako would indicate otherwise.

The LA riots arguably gave a section of the public some power over regional government, but guns weren't a major factor in that, as far as I'm aware

Hande hoche!

RandomName2 wrote: »

I think the meaning is the institution of the government: which is daft. A gun will never give you as an individual any protection against the government.

As a mob potentially guns can give you power, but incidents like Wako would indicate otherwise.

The LA riots arguably gave a section of the public some power over regional government, but guns weren't a major factor in that, as far as I'm aware

The idealized version is probably something close to the Battle of Athens.

RobertKK

Overheal wrote: »

Oh no, keep going. You want to make fun of the surface, for your own political advantage, but keep going. Yes, he supported Bernie, he was also a small business owner and he also had a lengthy criminal record for violence. Apparently, last year his business fell apart and he had up to today been living out of a local YMCA and a duffelbag. He was homeless. Already predisposed to violence, it didn't help that he was left out in the rain while Republicans he dehumanized, pontificated on the need to slash healthcare and social supports while producing tax cuts for wealthy campaign contributors.

What we can take away from most mass shooters in the US is that most of them are white and male, and many if not all of them come from difficult backgrounds, including poverty and radicalization whether it comes from a church, a viral youtube video, or what have you. They come from all manner of political backgrounds, including the lack of (nihilism). All that normally comes out of these 'gun' debates, is the conclusion that as a society, we can inflict the best mitigation of these attacks by at the very least taking measures to promote stability for the most vulnerable people of the population (the sick, the elderly, the homeless) and to make investments in mental health. FDR if I recall, in the New Deal, (or it was JFK?) enacted some legislation to establish nationwide mental health facilities that unfortunately, were defunded a short time later by the Congress and little came of it. To this day we still threaten to cut off PBS, too, but I will leave this somewhat old congressional testimony from Mr. Rogers on the subject of the importance of mental health, and the benefit of his programming. Some senators at the time commented directly that his comments by and large earned PBS its continued funding, and it's I think very helpful to look back to when politicians spoke slower and more thoughtfully and weren't afraid of accepting that someone else's idea was good.

The fact is his hate of Trump and the Republicans is what led to this attack. He is a supporter of the Democrats who became radicalised by his irrational hate.
All these people who do these things are radicalised by some form of hate that makes them do these crazy attacks.
It is the same for the person who shot the Democrat congresswoman Giffords.
It is a radical action to go and shoot people whoever they are.
I simply pointed out the background to this particular attacker. He was radicalised by an irrational hatred towards the Republicans.

Madagascan

So the Left oppose Trump send encourage this to happen.
It's not a surprise.

Kirby

Madagascan wrote: »

So the Left oppose Trump send encourage this to happen.
It's not a surprise.

:rolleyes:

Hande hoche!

RandomName2 wrote: »

Just going to say that 53 deaths in a 16 year period is an irrelevant number. Sure 13 people were killed in the fort hood shooting in 2009 alone.

Though your other points, I must admit, make sense.

Yeah, 53 deaths due to right wing extremism is scary. But as is the 49 victims of the pulse shooting.

Really Interested

RandomName2 wrote: »

I think the meaning is the institution of the government: which is daft. A gun will never give you as an individual any protection against the government.

As a mob potentially guns can give you power, but incidents like Wako would indicate otherwise.

The LA riots arguably gave a section of the public some power over regional government, but guns weren't a major factor in that, as far as I'm aware

In relation to your mob comment it is important to look at the 2nd amendment, "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

I find the contradictions in US constitutional jurisprudence to be very interesting.

ohnonotgmail

Really Interested wrote: »

In relation to your mob comment it is important to look at the 2nd amendment, "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

I find the contradictions in US constitutional jurisprudence to be very interesting.

all depends on how you read it. the intent of the writer is also important.

Really Interested

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

all depends on how you read it. the intent of the writer is also important.

Exactly and the SC has decided to say it is an individual right not a community right.