BusConnects Dublin - Bus Network Changes Discussion

Daith

It's just a bit of a pity that Parnell St is such lackluster transfer spot. Give people some seats and shelter.

caviardreams

Will really miss the direct link from Bray to Heuston for train connections with the old 145. What's the best option now to Heuston coming from Bray?

Capacity is already tight on the 46a/145/155 stretch - needs extra capacity not less. 3 buses went past me full at 4pm on a saturday recently on N11 - was waiting 30 mins to get on one

Also, what does the bit about the 4 being routed from O'Connell Street to Heuston mean? Is this permanent and does the 4 terminate at heuston now from 8th Dec?

Midnight_EG

The 4 is now Monkstown to Heuston, and you could get the Dart to Pearse Street and get the 4 then

p_haugh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122788316#Comment_122788316

I was thinking that too, but realistically anytime I've gone to Heuston recently I've gotten the 46a/155 and changed in town, as the detour the 145 does via Pearse Street negates any benefit of waiting for it to get a direct bus.

dublinman1990

It's a pity that you couldn't take the exact same journey back when using the 4 after going from Heuston to Bray after December 8th. If you're taking the 4 from Heuston after that date; you get off the 4 at Merrion Square and then take a short walk from there to Pearse to get the Dart out to Bray.

The new option of taking the 4 after December 8th is a little better though when compared to taking the 145 at the moment. When the 145 currently leaves Heuston; it would only leave you at Nassau St which is a longer walk to Pearse St Dart station on Westland Row.

But again, as a reminder, the option of taking the 4 from Hueston is only a temporary one until it gets replaced by the B4 and maybe a transfer with either the C & G Spine routes. Also when the B4 goes live; it will let you off at Pearse St Dart Station when it's going to Killiney SC near Ballybrack which is not too bad of an option tbh.

BusGuy

I just discovered that 20 Airlink VGs are on sale for around €1,000 - €3,000. This is a very bad move if we want to make buses frequent, and this depends not only on drivers but also on buses.

Take the 44, for example. There is one bus every hour. That means one bus per hour (from 07:00) is around 16 buses inbound and 16 buses outbound.

So, you would require 32 buses daily.

Going back to Airlink, all you needed to do was just to repaint from Airlink to their TFI livery or Dublin Bus livery, to at least improve frequency on some routes that need more improved frequency.

Overall, I don't think withdrawing buses that are 17-18 years old and are in a perfect state isn't the best option here, the GTs will withdraw sooner or later, despite the current state of the AXs.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122788316#Comment_122788316

DART to Tara Street and then C1, C2, C3, C4 or 52 from Tara Street will take you directly to Heuston Station (St. John's Road) is probably best as that offers high frequency along the Quays.

E1 to Westmoreland Street and then any of:

• 26 from Westmoreland Street to Parkgate Street
• 4 from Aston Quay to Heuston Station
• C1, C2, C3, C4 or 52 from Aston Quay to Heuston Station (St. John's Road)

The change to the 4 will apply until the B-Spine phase happens, probably in 2026.

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122788038#Comment_122788038

Yes Parnell Square is such an odd one, it has such wide roads and even on street parking, yet relatively little traffic uses it nowadays other then the buses and yet the footpaths are so relatively narrow!

They should at least double the width of the footpaths, add bus shelters, seating, etc. It should be made more pedestrian friendly. Plenty of space there to do all that.

caviardreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122789583#Comment_122789583

This is brilliant and exactly what I needed - thanks. Very hard to figure out options like this before they are live in the google journey planner etc

Does this mean that after the 4 changes in 2026 the current stop at the luas at Heuston won't be heavily used anymore and it will be mainly the johns road one?

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122789500#Comment_122789500

We’ve been here before, older buses break down more often, which makes public transport look unreliable, which is really bad for encouraging people out of their cars and onto buses. The best decision ever made by DB was reducing the max age of the bus fleet to 14 years, it made the fleet more reliable and attractive to the public.

Also older buses require a lot more maintenance time and cost. Use more fuel and are more polluting (plus single door).

As it is, the average age of the fleet has increased and older buses are sticking around longer then expected because of the extra demands of BusConnects. I get why that is necessary, but it makes me nervous, we don’t want to see the frequent break downs of the past cropping up again.

devnull

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122789500#Comment_122789500

Those vehicles have been laying idle since the start of the pandemic, I very much doubt they are in 'perfect' condition as you put it.

TranslatorPS

By the way, for those wondering what the f-60 means under 3am on rte 19 – it's indicating that there'll be a 3.30 first bus (at least this is the way this was proposed to drivers) and then f-30 onwards with 4.00, 4.30 departures, so the f-60 realistically means "one bus per hour".

I'm not sure if the Wadelai Park folks have much to complain, buses these days aren't as loud and they won't hear one (if they will) until around 3.50.

john boye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122789802#Comment_122789802

The last para of this is silly. There are only small numbers of older vehicles. The vast majority of breakdowns are on newer, less reliable machines.

VG31

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122789940#Comment_122789940

A 03:00 departure from Parnell Square would be better. A lot of airport staff start at 04:00. A 03:30 departure will be too late for them.

TonyK45

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122787785#Comment_122787785

The frequency for the 19 on the Bus Connects frequency table is still shown as 60 all day - how many others are wrong?

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122789798#Comment_122789798

That stop will still be very busy as it will be served by the N2, S2, O and the 782.

p_haugh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122790375#Comment_122790375

Yeah they could do with updating the original documents on the bus connects site to reflect changes since 2020. Even the local area maps don't reflect any route changes done for each phase.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122790587#Comment_122790587

I doubt those local maps will be updated again - they ought to just archive them.

They don’t have armies of staff to do all this stuff - they are limited enough.

cgcsb

They'd want to get a move on sorting out heuston bridge if we're gonna have the O starting in the next phase early next year

mikeybhoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122788494#Comment_122788494

That's assuming the OP lives in the part of Bray that's near the DART station. Best option for Hueston is likely the E1 then the 4, C1, C2, C3 or C4 from Aston Quay or alternatively the Luas from Abbey St.

mikeybhoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122789927#Comment_122789927

It was a bit of waste having them sitting idle for so long when they could've been converted to open tops, training buses or tree loppers. The 00 AVs must be getting on a bit even for training buses and tree loppers now at this stage. They still have one or two still being used on tours aswell.

Midnight_EG

There's been a shortage the last 5 years and it's painfully obvious as long as that too

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122789970#Comment_122789970

Errr… you’re literally proving my point! There are only a relatively small number of older vehicles left now and they aren’t even that relatively old, because DB introduced a rule to limit the max age to 14 years.

Before that DB/BE use to keep buses for well beyond 20 years and as a result use to suffer from high numbers of breakdowns, towed buses, etc. Also the buses just felt old and dirty from a passenger perspective. It really wasn’t a good look.

DB mostly fixed this by limiting the age to 14 years, basically selling them off before they got to an age where they would start to face higher maintenance costs and breakdowns.

That is why you don’t see breakdowns on older vehicles, because DB doesn’t really have any old vehicles!

As for you comment on new vehicles having issues, what you tend to find is new vehicles, in particular new models tend to have teething issues, but fortunately that is covered under manufacturers warranty. Once those issues get sorted by the manufacturer, you hopefully enter a period of good reliability throughout midlife and then as they get older, you tend to have increasing maintenance issues as they get older. Of course there is always the possibility of a lemon of a model.

All of this should be blindingly obvious to anyone who has owned a car for a long time or managed any type of fleet. The older the car gets, the more issues you have and the more maintenance costs you have until you get to the point where it just isn’t worth keeping anymore.

Annasopra

Deleted

john boye

The older buses are mostly on peak only duties and are fine for those. They have been maintained to a far higher standard throughout their lives than buses of a similar age (or older) were 30 years ago. Now if your complaint was about their interiors I could agree with you, some of them are quite tired internally.

You do seem to be blinded by a younger reg plate. It's well known just how troublesome some of the more recent types have been. It's got to a stage now where it can't just be put down to teething issues with some of them, they're just not very good.

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122792196#Comment_122792196

I think where the misunderstanding comes from is the definition of what we consider an "old" bus.

I wouldn't really consider any of the buses currently in the DB fleet to be really "old" buses. Of course there are older buses in the fleet, approaching 18 years now, but at less then 20 years, I wouldn't really call those "old".

In the past DB/BE kept buses 20 to 25 years old, that is what I call an old bus. Those were the buses constantly breaking down and giving public transport a real bad reputation.

One of the best things DB ever did was bring in the 14 year rule, it meant a fleet that on average was much younger and results in much more reliable service.

Them slipping slightly to 18 years because of BusConnects expansion is probably okay, but I'd hate to see a return of the bad old days of 20+ year old vehicles, I can guarantee you would see a massive increase in breakdowns.

I also don't think the pre-GT buses had a good interior for passengers and are at all acceptable for modern transport needs, single door operation is very poor and I don't think the public want old buses pumping fumes into their faces on city streets any more.

On your point of newer buses having issues. Well we have recently bought buses from the only two companies building buses for our market, so what is the solution? Surely your not suggesting we stop buying new buses and instead use old crappy buses for 25 years or more? That would be dreadful.

It seems to me that we need to work closely with the manufacturers to resolve any issues and get them to the required quality.

PlatformNine

The oldest busses in the fleet would be the few remaining Volvo B7s and all of the single door B9s? Hopefully they should be replaced sooner or later by incoming EWs, provided there would still be enough busses for any new routes or increased frequencies. Though, how long could it be until they are replaced? It looks like there are about 120-130 in total (AX, EV, VG, and VT?), so it would probably take 2 or 3 orders? And then by that point if they plan on following the 14 year rule, wouldn't the GTs be end-of-life?

Also, while on the topic of the old busses, is there a chance they will replace the VTs with another 3-axle bus? Or will they likely just replace them with the EWs to keep things standardised?

john boye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122795682#Comment_122795682

Not sure where you're getting this about buses being kept 20-25 years. I can't speak for BE but the only buses DB kept beyond 20 years were 3 original Atlanteans which were kept on as garage pets long after the rest had been taken off. It shouldn't have been allowed and definitely wouldn't be allowed now. Some of The final Van Hools were close to 20 when they were taken off alright.

Also it's quite the leap to go from someone pointing out how unreliable recent purchases have been (with no end in sight) to pretending to think that person might be suggesting we stop buying new buses altogether. Disingenuous almost.

mikeybhoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122796565#Comment_122796565

BE generally have a newer fleet than DB on city services. For example when DB were still running RAs and RVs in the mid 2000s nearly all the city fleet in Cork, Galway, Waterford and Limerick were low floor.

Mind you BE buses always seem to be in worse condition than anything DB operate take a look at a BE VWD and compare to a DB SG of the same age and you'll find the BE bus is in bits compared to the DB bus. Not sure if it's due to road quality on BE routes or BE maintenance which would seem strange considering they're all CIE.

john boye

There was a stage where BE seemed to be very wasteful with their fleet, a lot of buses seemed to be withdrawn very young (often in poor condition) and that was partly why many of their city fleets were younger than DB.

You're right about the difference in fleet presentation between the two companies. Hard to explain why, perhaps it's due to much of the fleet being away from their main depot so much. I guess rural routes can't help. I always thought they should have less white in their livery in that respect.