BusConnects Dublin - Bus Network Changes Discussion

loyatemu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122774737#Comment_122774737

I'm not saying they shouldn't change routes, or keep routes in place to serve very small numbers. Just that not everyone complaining about the changes is a moaner or a NIMBY.

VG31

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122774419#Comment_122774419

I'm also really looking forward to the 23/24. Not just for the airport link, but the route through the city centre is much better compared to the 83. The 83 route down the quays and through D'Olier Street/Westmoreland Street and College Green is very slow. I often walk from Ormond Quay if I'm going to the Dame Street/George's Street area as it's much quicker.

The new route by Christ Church Cathedral will be much more direct. The only issue I have is Church Street can be extremely slow.

Tolka Estate will benefit a lot from the 23, going from an hourly bus (at most) to a bus every 20 minutes.

coylemj

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122772797#Comment_122772797

I cannot believe that anyone who has studied the routes of the E1 and E2 could come out and claim that the 155 is being 'cancelled'.

Taisteal Éireann

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122772433#Comment_122772433

I know what you mean, don't worry! It's just frustrating that all the information is sitting there ready to go, but there's obviously other issues with government funding, driver recruitment, etc.

Yes, I agree re the scheduling of buses to connect between Confey and Leixlip and on to the Lucan Road. Don't know how the schedulers got it so wrong but here we are.

I think the N11 reduction will be an issue, there is a lot of latent demand on that route and off the top of my head, it's the only route other than the Malahide Road (15 and 27) with two very high frequency routes (46A and 145). Unfortunately, no improvements, if any, will happen until usually a month after. As frustrating as it is, they need the data to make the changes (and a lot of people to complain sometimes). If you can't get on a few buses one morning for example, it just gets put down as a bad morning. You need a lot of them for changes to happen. Buses have driven by me full, I know how frustrating it is. It will be interesting to see how many E9 departures there are, as well as X1/X2 departures.

Yeah, unfortunately, there's not the resources there at the moment for the changes to happen quicker. The Ballyfermot phase was a mess as you say when it really shouldn't have been, as there were only 2 or 3 routes changing, but again, not the resources there to do it correctly. Pessimistically, it could be the end of the decade by the time all the changes happen.

Taisteal Éireann

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122772577#Comment_122772577

Leixlip is one of the best connected towns in the country regarding public transport. Two train stations, two bus routes to Dublin, three local bus routes and also four peak bus routes to Dublin too.

I do agree that the scheduling needs to be a lot better connecting from the local routes to the spine routes. However, there was previously one bus an hour up and down Captain's Hill. There are now five. This is a massive improvement, no matter what way you look at it. As mentioned previously, not every housing estate can have a direct bus into the city, there will be winners and losers. Confey again also has a train station with direct trains to the city, something most areas could only dream of.

Extra services have been added to the C3 at peak times to address the issues of overcrowding. Imo, the 52 could maybe do with an extra service at peak times, but most of the X routes from Leixlip have 'low' ridership under the definitions used when data collecting, so there is still capacity there. I am not a resident of that area, but according to the metrics we use and the field work I've undertaken in that area, there are very few issues currently. Others may have a different view and if so, report it to the NTA/TFI. As slow as feedback and change seems to happen, it does happen.

Again, I don't work directly for the NTA/TFI, so I don't make the decisions, but in my personal view, anyone travelling from Leixlip (and Maynooth for that matter) to Dublin City Centre who is able to should be using the train, and that is the long-term goal of the whole BusConnects project and beyond. Local buses that connect into high-frequency train services that travel quicker than buses. However, the service level is not there on the Maynooth train line yet, so this is where the issue is currently.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122774833#Comment_122774833

The off-peak frequency to and from Bray is dropping, that is their point.

At present the 145 is every 10 mins off-peak and the 155 is every 20 mins.

The E1 will be every 10 mins off-peak.

That effectively means that Bray is losing out the 155 frequency (plus the 84).

Peak frequency on the E1 will be every 7.5 mins which is eight buses an hour - that compares with nine buses an hour between the 145 and 155.

Taisteal Éireann

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122772690#Comment_122772690

Personally, I love the orbitals. As you said, they are absolute game changers, especially the W4 imo. They are really decreasing journey times across the region and some of my personal journeys too. The 17, 17A and 75 were horrible meandering routes that thankfully are no more. Some of the local routes like the L25 that act like 'mini-orbitals' are great too, so much more direct and many more connections. Just the O, N8 and the merge of W61 and W62 left orbitals left now.

thomasj

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122775000#Comment_122775000

It looks like the numbers on the W4 are doing well , on the Blanch side at least . Was at the centre waiting on the N4 Saturday evening and there was at least 30 folks getting on the W4

Taisteal Éireann

The issue with the E-Spine is that the Bray Road is busier than the Ballymun Road and they needed to balance the frequency somehow, which is reducing the number of buses on the Bray side. I do believe in that in time, the E1 and E2 will both be every 8 minutes off-peak as opposed to the planned 10 minute frequency, however, when that happens, who knows? They may run E1's Bray-Dublin City-Bray only or E9's outside peak hours, time will tell.

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122774737#Comment_122774737

Definitely a good point to raise. I can really agree with the people giving out about no direct bus from North Wicklow to St Vincent's being infuriated at being told to walk from Donnybrook or Sydney parade when the very demographics needing that service may be struggling to walk because of ill health. I do think it's something that really shouldnt be simply dismissed with - "oh well just walk from Donnybrook or Sydney Parade"

mikeybhoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122775157#Comment_122775157

Bray hasn't had a proper link to Vincent's Hospital since 45 was axed over 12 years ago. The 84a only has a 3 mid morning departures and only 1 return working back to Bray.

Most of these are designed to facilitate the refuelling of outbased Bray buses in Donnybrook. So it's really just carrying a handful of elderly on a bus that would otherwise be running OOS. I don't remember much call for an all day link to Vincent's during the public consultation.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122775157#Comment_122775157

This is being exaggerated though in the case of the 84a.

The only through services from Bray to St Vincent’s are at 08:15, 09:35 and 10:20.

The only return service is at 10:15.

People are not depending on that service.

p_haugh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122775153#Comment_122775153

I wouldn't be surprised if an "E3" service is started down the line, running from Cherrywood to the likes of Mountjoy Square.

p_haugh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122775228#Comment_122775228

I got the 10:15 84a from Vincent's before as I was in for a checkup and wanted to try it out (I can easily get the 47 to within 200m of my house). The bus came OOS from the Donnybrook garage direction. Funnily enough, the same bus passed me working a 46e earlier in the morning when I was waiting on the 47 down to Vincent's! And yes, I was the only person on it between Vincent's and Blackrock Village.

StreetLight

While it is gratifying to at last see the bus network in Dublin being developed, there remains a huge fly in the ointment as to realising its full potential: Staffing. It seems there is investment available to buy buses and build infrastructure, but what about investing in staff? If the conditions for drivers already seem good, why the staffing shortfall?

But are conditions actually good? I'm still hearing about a lot of discontentment within Dublin Bus. There is apparently murder going on at the moment with inspectors continually hounding drivers over the radio about keeping to schedule, both being ahead of time and behind time. Drivers are claiming this is harassment and a distraction. I've been told three drivers have recently been sacked over their inability to maintain their schedule.

Surely in a city like Dublin, one of the most congested in Europe, where traffic fluctuates wildly from day to day and even hour to hour, trying to maintain a reasonable schedule is a tall order. So why are bus drivers being made to pay for this with their very jobs due to poor planning and weak infrastructure? Is this the real reason for the lack of staff?

cgcsb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122774817#Comment_122774817

The finglas/ballymun cbc is one of the first to go to construction so hopefully the issues on church St will be relieved somewhat

Daith

Small thing but I hate that 2/3 of the F bus routes won't be using the Finglas Bus Corridor fully. Maybe the early changes around Harts Corner and Dorset St will help, but the F2 and F3 will still be forced slowly down the Whitworth Road

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122776031#Comment_122776031

I think that you may be getting a bit confused?

All three F Spine routes (F1, F2 and F3) will use Whitworth Road.

They all follow the same route from the Finglas Road / Tolka Valley Road junction to the KCR on the southside.

Daith

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122776115#Comment_122776115

Oh. I thought the F1 was going to be the 140 replacement service and go down Phisboro. That's interesting it's going down the Whitworth Road too.

I guess everyone can switch to an E service at Harts Corner/Cross Guns, but the Whitworth Road itself isn't ideal for buses.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122776137#Comment_122776137

No - remember that the whole point of each spine is that the spine routes follow the exact same route from the point that they join together on one side of the city centre until they start diverging on the other and offer an integrated schedule along that route.

Spanish Eyes

I hope some graphic genius is busily working away on a "Tube" type map of Bus Connects.

I don't use the bus that often but I like to be able to see in one place where everything fits and connects etc. I know there are maps on the TFI website but an overall transport map like in London would be great. I'm sure that's in hand as the project has a bit to go before it's all finished.

It's hard to keep up with it all. I suppose people will know about changes in their own areas but it's not that easy to figure out what's happening elsewhere.

For example, someone above mentioned the new N2 route. Well I typed it into the timetables on TFI app, and up came a rural route in Co. Meath!. Maybe it's not actually operative yet, my bad if so.

Should be great when it's all done. Will take a while to figure it all out, but that's not impossible if the signposts are good and easy to follow on the apps/websites.

VG31

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122775960#Comment_122775960

Hopefully it will make some difference. The part with the worst congestion - southbound between North King Street and Mary's Lane is the only part that won't have a bus lane though. It would have been better to have the bus lane on the east (southbound) side rather than the west (northbound) side. The northbound direction isn't as bad for traffic.

There is already a bus priority signal for southbound buses, but often they can't get through the junction with North King Street because of cars turning left on to Church Street.

trellheim

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122776213#Comment_122776213

The maps are wrong in my area anyway they have not updated them for the revised routes e.g. N2 - and where - for example - the 11 is being rerouted - that is not being shown on the maps - Now you might say the 11 is a trad route - but with the route being changed solely for busconnects it should be on it.

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122776213#Comment_122776213

The new N2 route is up and running, it is an orbital route that runs along Griffith Avenue between Heuston Station and Clontarf Road Station.

It is listed on the TFI app, but it is the 2nd listed route, below the BE Navan route. Yes it is a pity that there is a BE route also called N2, it might be a good idea if they changed the name of that route to reduce confusion. Of course the TFI app is poor here, searching the N4 route gives even more stupid results, like really poor interface (it displays a 100 or so bus stops with N4 in the stop number before finally showing the N4 route, but then hides that result below the keyboard with no way of clicking on it!).

I'd recommend you use the Transit app, it works much better and is much clearer.

The naming of the orbital routes is actually very intuitive. They either start with S, W, N to indicate if they are to the South, West or North of Dublin and then the number indicates if they are closer to the city center or further out. For instance N2 is closer to the city then N4, which in turn is closure then the N6 and N8. Same for the S and W routes.

BTW I see there is also unfortunate route name overlap with the Sligo S routes and Waterford W routes.

Spanish Eyes

@bk Many thanks for that useful info about the numbering/lettering on the orbitals. I'll certainly have a look at Transit app, I didn't know about that one.

OscarMIlde

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122774958#Comment_122774958

The X25 and X26 are absolutely crammed morning and evening. I don't where you are getting the idea they have a low 'ridership'. It's not uncommon for them to drive past not stopping with people crammed up to the front window. And while the bus routes are from Leixlip to the city centre, people are not necessarily going all the way in. A lot of people get off at Liffey Valley, Palmerstown, Heuston or along the quays, and hece must travel by bus and not by train.

I would say on over ten occasions in the last month it has taken me over an hour to manage to get on a bus home from Heuston to Leixlip. And when I do get on a bus nine times out of ten I am standing till the bus is past Lucan. On one occasion last month I left work at four and got home at half six. Half six! That is an abysmal service. What bright spark in the NTA when planning bus routes under bus connects thought I know, I'll run four buses from Leixlip to Hazelhatch an hour, but only put three buses an hour to the city centre. That makes no sense in terms of expected passenger bus journeys.

And while Leixlip does have a train service, that is also very overloaded. When I used to travel by train it wasn't uncommon for at least one person to faint every journey due to the overcrowding. It's not much better nowadays, particularly now that the NTA have introduced the wonderful idea of making most of the trains terminate/begin in Grand Canal Dock whch is not only causing massive delays but also means train passengers getting on in Connolly or often not able to get on the trains as they are full.

scrabtom

Any idea why the orbitals skip numbers? ie. Why there's no N1, S3, W5 etc.?

jd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122777423#Comment_122777423

I presumed it is to future proof them, if there was an orbital running between say the n6 and planned n8, it would be the n7 rather than the n6a..

Polar101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122774958#Comment_122774958

Or six buses an hour on Captain's hill, since there's also the 139 which is hourly nowadays.

TranslatorPS

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122777423#Comment_122777423

@jd gave one reason, I would like to think that another reason is in the fact that the seven spines have consecutive numbers from 1 to whichever each, so putting in gaps in the orbital numbering differentiates the two concepts of core cross-city routes with common sections and core orbital services which don't really meet each others but form "layers" around the city, so to speak.