BusConnects Dublin - Big changes to Bus Network

BonnieSituation

troyzer wrote: »

Fairly positive so far. Seems to mimic the bus system in Perth which was brilliant when I was living there. My only concern is the idea that it seems to be relying on frequent service. The report seems to know why buses are clustered but if they can't stop that, this will be a catastrophe with long waits at bus stops for interchanges.

Trains and buses in Perth were always what I thought we should mimic here. Great system.

LeinsterDub

troyzer wrote: »

Fairly positive so far. Seems to mimic the bus system in Perth which was brilliant when I was living there. My only concern is the idea that it seems to be relying on frequent service. The report seems to know why buses are clustered but if they can't stop that, this will be a catastrophe with long waits at bus stops for interchanges.

Not really if the frequency is every 4 minutes if 2 buses come at once it's not the end of the world . Also with a simpler network you can just tell the next A bus to ease off as opposed to the current mess where 10 buses from all over the place randomly converge at a stop.

BonnieSituation

Amirani wrote: »

Just been looking at the main map. Initial impression is this is fantastic and should massively improve bus connectivity in Dublin.

https://busconnects.ie/media/1247/map2-proposednetwork.pdf

I expect there to be a good deal of opposition to some aspects, but I think once it operation it would be completely transformational.

Something's I'm not liking but need a more detailed look later.

Otherwise generally positive.

lawred2

Amirani wrote: »

Just been looking at the main map. Initial impression is this is fantastic and should massively improve bus connectivity in Dublin.

https://busconnects.ie/media/1247/map2-proposednetwork.pdf

I expect there to be a good deal of opposition to some aspects, but I think once it operation it would be completely transformational.

urm I can't figure that map out

what does D1 to Malahide mean?

L1011

Amirani wrote: »

Yep, or presumably your local bus will get to to a City Centre Radial route pretty quickly so beneficial for those who can't walk too.

It'll hit one fairly quickly. It used to be a lettered extension of the service that is now going to be a radial until they were changed to all go along the extension a few years ago.

It'll apparently only be every 30 - it currently is but we were long since told it'd be going to every 20 or 25 this winter!

LeinsterDub

lawred2 wrote: »

urm I can't figure that map out

what does D1 to Malahide mean?

The letters are core routes. Very high frequency , as the letters get further out of the city they branch out and as such the frequency will drop.

site_owner

Baldoyle / Sutton / howth / raheny (17a / 29a / 31 / 32)
All looks identical

Had really been hoping for a service that links with proposed D line.
Or that howth road would be a designated line, but didn't thibk that was likely since we are 'blessed' with the dart.

Instead we keep the infrequent 29a service that goes all the way to the city and has a pretty ridiculous route.

LeinsterDub

Sure the N2 radial need better frequency than every 20-25 minutes?

Kh1993

Seemingly positive on the face of things. Some interesting parts including buses not doing silly loops into Beaumont Hospital (17a / 27b /104), Howth/Sutton getting an all day bus to DCU, and improved frequencies on orbital routes.

My only gripe would be the numbering and lettering system, I don’t think it is very clear on the maps at all, and things like 7a and 7b kept for Finglas buses

lawred2

LeinsterDub wrote: »

The letters are core routes. Very high frequency , as the letters get further out of the city they branch out and as such the frequency will drop.

Does the blue mean that the frequency is to drop to every 30 minutes past Clarehall?

Because that would be a large drop in frequency along the Malahide Road upto Clarehall

I pretty much know for sure I've got that wrong

Amirani

lawred2 wrote: »

urm I can't figure that map out

what does D1 to Malahide mean?

So D is a trunk going from Balgriffin to Crumlin. There will be a D bus running between these around every 5 minutes. However, these D buses will be split into D1, D2, D3, D4.

D1: Malahide to Drimnagh
D2: Clongriffin to Jobstown (via Clare Hall)
D3: Clongriffin to Clondalkin/Nangor (via Belmayne)
D4: Clongriffin to Tymon

So all these will get you from Clongriffin to Crumlin, but if you want one of the end points you either can change at one of the interchanges or wait for a numbered route to your destination.

troyzer

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Trains and buses in Perth were always what I thought we should mimic here. Great system.

Yeah, it just makes so much sense. Orbital routes connected you to different places without going through the middle as well as directly into the city on the different freeways. They also connected you with the various trainlines which also had orbital and direct routes and then the feeders in between.

Just pure class, a quick glance at the map and everything made sense and worked.

devnull

NTA Chief Executive Anne Graham

Redrawing the bus network in Dublin has been a priority for the NTA and was a key element of the overall BusConnects programme that we announced last year.

The current system of bus routes and services in Dublin is complex, with about 130 different bus routes forming the network. Currently the network is radially focused, with most routes emanating outwards from the City Centre. Orbital bus services – routes that skirt the city – are few and far between. As a result, many bus journeys can only be made by firstly traveling into the city centre on one radial route, and then taking another radial bus service out.

We believe that a system with greater scope for interconnection between routes, and where connecting passengers don’t necessarily have to travel to the city centre, is one that would be far more attractive and convenient.

Jarrett Walker and Associates last year produced the Choices Report that outlined the alternative approaches that could be taken to make the system easier to understand and more useful. The report we are publishing today, brings us a significant step closer to that objective.

Dublin Bus Chief Executive Ray Coyne

This proposed network design is part of an ambitious investment of €2 billion in Dublin’s bus system. BusConnects will deliver over 200 million customer journeys per year which will be of significant benefit to the city and its people.

While the proposed network is a significant opportunity to continue the growth and success of Dublin Bus, it represents a huge change for everyone in the city.

This is an opportunity for our customers to have their say on their future bus network. We want to hear from them about whether the proposed redesign will work for them and, if not, what changes would they choose to make. We look forward to speaking directly to them.

Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport, Shane Ross

The proposals that NTA is publishing today are radical but I believe that they have the potential to make Dublin’s public transport system in general, and its bus system in particular, work much better for the people who use it.

Under these proposals we will see an overall increase in services of 27% which as far as customers are concerned, can only be a good thing.

I welcome the fact that the NTA and Dublin Bus are now embarking on a process of public consultation. I know that they are both in listening mode, and if people have suggestions as to how these plans can be made even better, I’m sure they will be looked at closely.

From that point of view, I would certainly encourage members of the public to fully engage in the consultation process.”

Bummer1234

Is that the N4 i see going from Blanch towards the airport...(Getting two busses of course) and with not having to go into the city!!

Dyr

You'd think someone would point out to them that the Irish experience of connecting services is absolutely dire and they will run into a lot of justified opposition on that aspect

devnull

Bambi wrote: »

You'd think someone would point out to them that the Irish experience of connecting services is absolutely dire and they will run into a lot of justified opposition on that aspect

If you look at the report surprisingly the survey didn't really indicate that as much as you might think.

Amirani

Kh1993 wrote: »

My only gripe would be the numbering and lettering system, I don’t think it is very clear on the maps at all, and things like 7a and 7b kept for Finglas buses

The sub-lettering on the Finglas routes is weird and confusing alright.

LeinsterDub

lawred2 wrote: »

Does the blue mean that the frequency is to drop to every 30 minutes past Clarehall?

Because that would be a large drop in frequency along the Malahide Road upto Clarehall

I pretty much know for sure I've got that wrong

Clarehall will be quite high served by A1 ,D2, 279 and 280

LeinsterDub

Kh1993 wrote: »

Seemingly positive on the face of things. Some interesting parts including buses not doing silly loops into Beaumont Hospital (17a / 27b /104), Howth/Sutton getting an all day bus to DCU, and improved frequencies on orbital routes.

My only gripe would be the numbering and lettering system, I don’t think it is very clear on the maps at all, and things like 7a and 7b kept for Finglas buses

To be honest I don't understand the purpose of the 7 route at all . It's kind of the B/E route buy kind of not.

Amirani

lawred2 wrote: »

Does the blue mean that the frequency is to drop to every 30 minutes past Clarehall?

Because that would be a large drop in frequency along the Malahide Road upto Clarehall

I pretty much know for sure I've got that wrong

Yeah, but Malahide will have Dart and other buses that will connect with trunk routes: https://busconnects.ie/media/1255/map4_proposed-network_dublin_north_outer-150ppi.png

Stephen Strange

Based on the proposed routes, my local route (123) appears to be no longer going near college green.

I'm actually pretty happy with that as it appears to now be going down near smithfield (marked as 22 on the map) and avoiding the congested dame street/ college green area.

thomasj

Bummer1234 wrote:

Is that the N4 i see going from Blanch towards the airport...(Getting two busses of course) and with not having to go into the city!!

No the N4 is going to the city centre

Dyr

devnull wrote: »

If you look at the report surprisingly the survey didn't really indicate that as much as you might think.

Online survey wasn't it? If you believe online surveys Sinn Fein should have an overall majority in the Dail years ago. Most online surveys aren't worth the paper they're not written on. A lot of people will assume that connecting services mean you're going to be halfway home watching packed buses go past you. And they'll probably be right once the gloss wears off and the media gaze moves on


You'll find the same with the whole promise of local feeder routes, these have been promised in the past when services were streamlined and they turned out to be token efforts, that will undermine them going forward.

Orbital services are a good idea and long overdue

Off peak frequency on all routes will be a real barometer as to how serious they are about this redesign.

thomasj

Amirani wrote:

The sub-lettering on the Finglas routes is weird and confusing alright.

It's not long ago ye had that ? Remember the 40/A/B/C during the cityswift days

pclive

Stephen Strange wrote: »

Based on the proposed routes, my local route (123) appears to be no longer going near college green.

I'm actually pretty happy with that as it appears to now be going down near smithfield (marked as 22 on the map) and avoiding the congested dame street/ college green area.

This change will meet significant local opposition as the route no longer goes through St Jame's Hospital.
I would expect this to be changed due to pressure from Cllr's/TD's/Members of public

lawred2

Amirani wrote: »

Yeah, but Malahide will have Dart and other buses that will connect with trunk routes: https://busconnects.ie/media/1255/map4_proposed-network_dublin_north_outer-150ppi.png

our stretch of the Malahide Road looks like it will be served by two buses down to Clarehall as it goes - the D1 and the 280

should work well

Bummer1234

thomasj wrote: »

No the N4 is going to the city centre

Starts near blanch,Goes past finglas,Collins ave,killester then towards east wall....

Get off at whitehall for the the airport.

Stephen Strange

pclive wrote: »

This change will meet significant local opposition as the route no longer goes through St Jame's Hospital.
I would expect this to be changed due to pressure from Cllr's/TD's/Members of public

That element could be fairly easily changed, without affecting the stretch from Marino to Heuston.

pclive

Stephen Strange wrote: »

That element could be fairly easily changed, without affecting the stretch from Marino to Heuston.

Yes they could use Stephen's Lane along with the Orbital route.
Its the delays on SCR from the Hospital they are probably trying to avoid outbound in the PM peak

MJohnston

pclive wrote: »

This change will meet significant local opposition as the route no longer goes through St Jame's Hospital.
I would expect this to be changed due to pressure from Cllr's/TD's/Members of public

If something like that is changed, it'll be a short leap to the whole plan collapsing. The intent is clearly to get people away from a single route mindset and more comfortable with very casual switching of multiple routes. Soon as you start making exceptions for routes, that whole idea falls apart.