BusConnects Dublin - Big changes to Bus Network

bk

I don't how BE and DB competing would improve things for the travelling public. If anything I could probably see the two companies merging together in order to be better able to compete for future tenders.

Well for example BE refusing to compete with Irish Rail lead them to making stupid decisions like not having toilets on board and not using the motorways as they opened.

Fortunately the private coach companies stepped in and saved us all from that nonsense. Brought real competition and quality service to the intercity market.

Perhaps a much of a muchness on PSO contracts, though I do think some passengers on some routes would benefit from DB deciding to operate more then just city buses. Like GAI have done. Both BE and GAI use a mix of both buses and coaches where relevant, I don't see why DB couldn't do the same.

I agree that we could see BE and DB merge, might bring some savings on overheads, etc. Of course the opposite could happen too and they follow the London Bus model of breaking them up into separate companies and privatising. Unlikely, but always possible.

BTW I don't believe the plate has any relevance to legislation on speed and standing passengers.

coylemj

Sounds like the driver didn't take the turn wide enough should've taken up the up the two lanes.

The problem is that the left lane has a double arrow, left and straight ahead. So it's not really practical for a bus to go into the right lane to do a wide turn because he would end up whacking a car on his inside which was heading straight i.e. down the hill towards Blackrock.

Here is the approach to Temple Hill from Monkstown Road, note the double arrow in the left lane....

https://maps.app.goo.gl/1hEeK5D1cyYY8DmH7

A possible solution would be similar to what they have at the Priory complex (office park and phone exchange) on the outbound N11 - an early green light for buses which allows them to cross multiple lanes. The 47 needs this to cross over to the right lane to turn right into the Old Dublin Road at Oatlands College.

mikeybhoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121511306#Comment_121511306

I fail to see how DB would benefit from operating coaches. Coaches carry less passengers than regular city buses. They're not suitable for the types of service DB operate. The VTs were bought to carry more passengers than twin axle double deckers but even a tri axle coach carries less than a regular double decker.

BE use buses on city/town services and coaches on commuter routes. The buses used on the 103 for example are a higher spec than anything DB operate with high back seats.

A bus/coach has to be plated to carry standing passengers look at the capacity for any bus/coach it will state the seated and standing capacity of the vehicle. If the coach is plated to carry 54 seated, 1 wheelchair and 0 standing that means no standing passengers are to be carried regardless of speed.

p_haugh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121511322#Comment_121511322

Just on your point about the bus light for the 47 at Priory - most of the time I've seen /gotten the 47, the drivers change lane before even passing the Talbot Hotel so are in the outermost lane by the time they get to that junction, meaning the bus light effectively isn't used

coylemj

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121511460#Comment_121511460

That looks like a change to what I remember a few years ago but you are correct - the last stop on the N11 for the outbound 47 is now stop 2011 which is between the top of Mt. Merrion Ave and the Talbot hotel. I'm pretty sure I remember the 47 continuing in the left lane along the N11 until Priory and using the priority (green bus) light at Priory to cross two lanes to go right into the Old Dublin Road.

Burt Renaults

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121511164#Comment_121511164

The most likely thing that happened is that the driver is a new recruit, and absent-mindedly approached the turn in "car mode". It's a tricky turn that requires the bus to swing right before turning left. The safest way to swing right is to use the size of the vehicle and straddle the two lanes on approach. Even point the front of the bus slightly right to discourage anyone from stopping alongside.

Acute angles are very common on bus routes. Nearly every route has at least one turn like that.

mikeybhoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121512547#Comment_121512547

That's what I was thinking

TranslatorPS

The VT class were introduced in 2006, the NTA wasn’t created until December 2009 and even then DB continued to be the ones buying buses for at least next 5 years or so, I think it was the GT class in 2018 when the NTA took over fleet purchasing.

I take it that's a typo there and it's meant to be 2013? Because yes, it's only from the GTs onwards that the NTA started buying buses for their Operators, and even then I remember being told (although not really with 100% certainty) that there is a number of early GTs that were still a DB purchase.

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121513008#Comment_121513008

Dohhh.. yep typo there. And the first few years DB were still very much driving the spec from what we can see from the outside. Not that there are really that many options. There are only a small number of manufacturers and realistic options on the market.

john boye

Another factor around then that's easy to forget is that DB were falling out of love with Transbus/ADL products as the build quality of the AX and (especially) the EVs had been very poor. And then the ADL/Dennis merger meant that getting Volvo chassis on ADL products was largely off the menu anyway.

mikeybhoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121513208#Comment_121513208

Wrights have done tri axles for Hong Kong and Singapore

john boye

Wright tri-axles were not being considered as an option around 2007/8. Company was testing the water with Wright bodywork and it took a long time to come around to them. Would be a different story now of course

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121513518#Comment_121513518

Diesels though, right?

It looks like they got funding this year to start working on zero emission tri-axles, but it sounds like it is still early days for them:

https://www.apcuk.co.uk/funded-projects/wrightbus-next-gen-fuel-cell-battery-electric-multi-axle-buses/

https://www.northernirelandworld.com/business/wrightbus-ballymena-firm-receives-ps12million-to-produce-green-buses-4134809

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121513208#Comment_121513208

Are the Wrights actually better build quality though?

User experience for me has been breakdowns and general feeling poorly/cheaply assembled, even compared to the EVs and the last few AXs which I've been on - and they're a lot older than the SGs.

Don't notice any problems with the PAs. Really do get absolutely everything across the 16/33/41!

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121514083#Comment_121514083

The PAs have caused no end of problems apparently, from an engineering perspective.

I think ADL’s reputation with the bus companies has dive bombed as a result.

john boye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121514083#Comment_121514083

I agree with what you say there but I think the comparison was done on the buses of the day VGs vs the AX/EV. Tbf the VGs were much more solid than the Wright products that came after them.

mikeybhoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121514665#Comment_121514665

The GTs are more or less the same bodywork as the VGs. The SGs are more a lightweight design to increase fuel savings but I can't say their bad buses. The GTs are probably my favourite bus operated in Dublin I do like the PAs too from a passenger perspective but I've their bad from the drivers pov.

The worst bus hands down has to be the Streetlite single deckers. Awful buses engine sounds like a noisy washing machine, extremely rattly and very bad ride quality.

john boye

GTs are a tad lighter than the VGs and the build quality when new wasn't as solid as the VGs.

TravelCounty

Just wondering if anyone knew why the S2's stop at Heuston was changed from stop 4425 to stop 4320?. I understand that small changes are made during the initial rollout, more just curious to know what the motivation was behind it.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121519690#Comment_121519690

Probably easier to share the stop with the 145 than with a coach on the 782.

CatInABox

FECKIN FINALLY!

The first BusConnects Core Corridor project, Liffey Valley to City Centre, has emerged from ABP, approved with only minor conditions.

https://irishcycle.com/2023/12/21/first-busconnects-infrastructure-route-given-green-light-from-planning-board/

As noted in the article, the inspector sought to make it more compliant with DMURS, and ABP choose to ignore that recommendation.

CatInABox

Haven't looked at the inspectors report at all, just the decision, and it's really interesting, both what is said and unsaid.

On what's unsaid, I've seen small house extensions with more conditions attached. It's gone through almost totally unscathed.

On what's said, one of the points that they've made a condition is the design of the Island Bus stops. They're to take a look at the Cycle Design Manual, which has only just been updated. Interestingly enough, and very much a good thing in my opinion, is that the CDM does not recommend a full set of traffic lights across the cycle track at a bus stop, but just a small cycle light (See Section 4.4.5.2.1). Obviously ABP saw what had gone in at recent Island Bus stops and were as aghast as the rest of us.

However, the big thing that's in there is down where they explain why they didn't take on board the Inspectors recommendation for more DMURS compliance. They basically hand waved at the application and said that it was good enough as is, and didn't need another condition, but more specifically, they said that "the board noted that the proposal brought forward has been advanced through an iterative design process...". While the entire BusConnects consultation process so far has been considered way over the top on here by many, it does seem to have done the trick, with this project raising no major issues at ABP because of it. Bodes well for the rest of the projects, and Metrolink/Dart+

Kermit.de.frog

When would construction start?

I think everyone is blue in the face with planning applications and reports for so many projects and just want to see shovels in the ground at this point

stephenjmcd

No surprise to see as usual now a Councillor raising concerns a few months out from another phase. This time E spine

https://m.independent.ie/regionals/dublin/dublin-news/fears-new-dublin-airport-busconnects-route-will-cause-confusion/a1237843735.html

bk

While the entire BusConnects consultation process so far has been considered way over the top on here by many, it does seem to have done the trick, with this project raising no major issues at ABP because of it. Bodes well for the rest of the projects, and Metrolink/Dart+

What I’ve noticed with ABP over the decades, while they are frustratingly slow, when it comes to major government infrastructure projects, they largely just rubber stamp them.

Of course, there are exceptions, usually if something is extremely contentious with the public.

And it makes sense, these projects are developed by experts in their field, with many rounds of public consultations and redesigns as a result. By comparison ABP are just generalists and wouldn’t have the in-depth knowledge of railway lines or bus infrastructure to make significant changes or conditions and would need a really strong reason to outright deny them.

In the end, these are government plans, the government wants them to go through for the betterment of all. It is one government entity reviewing and rubber stamping another government entity’s detailed plans.

Of course, they are an important part of the checks and balance, but other then the slowness of it all, I haven’t been at all concerned with ABP, I assume all the various infrastructure plans will largely go through unchanged.

VG31

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121525216#Comment_121525216

There's nothing positive at all in that article. The E spine phase will be a major improvement for me. It's going to make a lot of journeys I take regularly a lot easier.

The N2 in particular will be a really positive addition. If I want to go to somewhere like Clontarf, Raheny, Howth or Malahide by public transport, currently I have to get the bus in to the city centre then get another bus or the DART. Driving is a no-brainer right now. The N2 will be a great connection to Clontarf DART station. Although I do fear it could be a very slow route at times. The junctions of Griffith Avenue with the Ballymun Road and Swords Road can have long queues.

The 19 was only introduced to placate local residents IIRC, so isn't exactly a core route. Every hour is probably a bit infrequent for a route serving the airport though. I can't imagine many people going from the airport to city centre will use it (and the even longer 23) since it's very indirect. I suppose some tourists might get on them unaware.

john boye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121525216#Comment_121525216

How thick do they think people are? And is it not partly their job to inform their constituents of the changes?

bk

Does anyone know, will the N2 launch with the E Spine? Or maybe with the O ring? Or will it come in a different phase, it isn’t listed on the other thread.

It is frustrating that it wasn’t launched with the N4.

CatInABox

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121525224#Comment_121525224

Yes, wasn't really worried about ABP either, but then mentioning the rigorous process that it went through will, in my opinion, protect these projects from a lot of legal challenges

cgcsb

I'd imagine theyll wait till there is at least 3 or 4 corridors approved before appointing a contractor so it'll still probably be 2025 before any construction activities commence