BusConnects Dublin - Big changes to Bus Network

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121488261#Comment_121488261

Yes we will have more 24 hour routes - each Spine will likely operate on a 24 hour basis.

The question is being asked about the outlying areas that aren't served by the normal Spine routes - they may retain a Nitelink style route or have special night time versions of Spine routes.

CatInABox

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121488308#Comment_121488308

I'd put a question mark next to the H spine, I don't think that'll go 24 hours.

Midnight_EG

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121488189#Comment_121488189

You should work for the NTA

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121488343#Comment_121488343

I suspect that it may do at the end - I'd be very surprised if one part of the city were left out. But some of the areas may be served by a D Spine variant.

We will have to wait and see.

BlueSkyDreams

Am I the only person that thinks it is odd we dont know the end game here?

Which stops will be removed/retained, which routes may or may not be 24 hrs etc...

I understand a delay to the roll out as a result of driver shortages, but surely there should be a picture on the front cover of the jigsaw box.

And If not, how do we know we have the right pieces in the box?

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121488631#Comment_121488631

Well we do know what the network will ultimately look like, and what the base daytime frequencies are planned to be, which is what counts - what will be 24 hours is ultimately operational detail level, which can wait till the routes roll out to be honest, but the NTA CEO has indicated that they intend for most if not all of the Spines to have 24 hour operation, but that is funding and driver resource dependent.

The infrastructure planning applications show where all the bus stops along the Spines will be and which will be removed.

mikeybhoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121488176#Comment_121488176

Maintenance is done on the track at night. It would be pointless operating the Luas at night if it's gonna be disrupted 3 or 4 nights a week for maintenance they'd be better off filling the gap with buses.

But a night 24h service would be logical on Friday and Saturday nights as would night Darts.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121489394#Comment_121489394

Exactly. Just run the late Luas on Friday and Sat nights. There is huge demand and it takes the pressure off our taxis...which are massivley under available after 1am.

Hotblack Desiato

Sure, there's a need for maintenance but surely it doesn't need to be shut down to the extent it is at present.

Get the most value out of the taxpayer's investment.

Remember when there was no demand for 24h buses... until they started running them... and then there was lots of demand.

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121486829#Comment_121486829

I do understand the idea and it made sense back when they thought they could roll out BusConnects quickly.

But now it is taking years to rollout BusConnects because of the driver shortages and because the N4 was one of the first phases, while the A will be one of the last, it just makes it look ridiculous for all those years in between.

I feel, once they realised the rollout would take so long, they should have just went ahead and made these adjustments, even though it means more work long term.

Like how they have rolled out the orbital routes, ahead of some radial routes like originally planned. A sensible change given the limited resources.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121487247#Comment_121487247

There was also another tenet in BusConnects of integrating radial routes with orbital routes and moving stops closer to junctions. The above stops I mention fall under both of these. In these cases there is scope to remove the stop before them.

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121487727#Comment_121487727

Anyone with sensory issues should really invest in noise cancelling headphones, they are brilliant for such issues.

I don’t have sensory issues, but I do have noise cancelling headphones and they make using public transport and airplanes so much more comfortable.

Sony XM4 are great and go on sale regularly, XM3 are great too if you can find them cheap second hand. Anker make slightly less capable but still very good ones for €80. Then there are the AirPods Pro for a more discrete option.

loco_scolo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121489919#Comment_121489919

Yeah it's frustrating at Collins AVE / Swords Road junction.

Here's the 16 route northbound in yellow and the N4 eastbound in red. Can't understand the decision there on bus stop placement. It's quicker to get off on the Swords Rd and walk to the first N4 stop rather than wait for the bus to clear the junction, then walk backwards.

In the other direction, the N4/16 share the stop on Collins AVE nearest the junction.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121489919#Comment_121489919

Everything the NTA have done so far would suggest that, while what you say makes sense, it won’t happen.

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121490138#Comment_121490138

I believe they changed the order of the rollout of the orbital routes. Originally I think they were more staggered with the rollout of the radial routes, but they seemed to have switched to rolling out the W and S routes sooner, which makes a lot of sense and something I previously suggested.

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121490050#Comment_121490050

Yep and then east of here at the corner of Grace Park Road and Collins Avenue, you have a new westbound N4 stop that the 16 passes, but doesn’t stop at and then on the other side of the junction a new east bound N4 stop that the 14 passes, but doesn’t stop at!

Citrus_8

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121489937#Comment_121489937

That's a great advice, however, sometimes things aren't that straightforward. Don't want to detail too much but we have a huge variety of society with all sorts of issues... I just think that drivers should stick to driving and show as little of their own personality as possible. Singing is probably more of a thing for their own personal time, not during work around people. Similarly to when drivers change during a shift change and start chatting with all sort of inappropriate words while customers are around (some minors too). This is a professional work environment. I know this might be unpopular to say, but that's what I'd expect. I also understand those who disagree with me.

AngryLips

When BC was first announced, it was said that there'd be a financial commitment in the billions to deliver it. However, given that so much of the infrastructure elements have been watered down already, is this still the budget they're playing with?

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121490447#Comment_121490447

They haven’t been watered down as much as some people seem to think.

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121490349#Comment_121490349

There are multiple studies that show many people work better and can focus more when there is music in the background. This is in particular true when it comes to driving, which is why radios are so popular in cars, trucks and buses, it helps to keep the driver focused during long hours of boring driving.

This is a safety issue and a driver should do whatever they feel works the best for them and the safest for them. For some drivers it is silence, for others it is a radio.

I think it is wrong of you to claim it is unprofessional for a driver to use a radio.

The safety of the driver and all the people on the bus trumps the sensory issues of an individual. Headphones work well for most people with sensory issues, I’m aware that there is a minority of folks with sensory issues who also can’t wear headphones, but this is a niche of a niche.

Id suggest if you or someone you know fall into this category then either go upstairs, you won’t hear it from there or from the back of downstairs. If you have to use the front of the bus or wheelchair bay, perhaps you could simply explain to the driver your disability and respectfully ask if they could turn it down the volume until you get off.

Asking for a blanket ban and calling drivers unprofessional isn’t going to work.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121490320#Comment_121490320

Actually, I’d have to correct you on that. The W and S orbitals were always phased ahead of the five North/South cross-city spines (A, B, D, E and F).

Hopefully things can speed up a bit in 2024 and these anomalies eliminated.

Citrus_8

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121490471#Comment_121490471

I have no issues a driver using earphones and listen to the music as that wouldn't disturb others (except the singing part). Drivers shouldn't inconvenience the passengers on board as they are firstly service providers, secondly one vs all the passengers so one inconveniencing all the rest who would feel it inappropriate. Similarly, I am against those passengers who listen to their music or watch something without earphones. It's just bad manners.

mikeybhoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121490471#Comment_121490471

Go-Ahead don't allow drivers use a radio at all and it's considered gross misconduct for a driver to use in the cab one like a mobile phone. I wouldn't agree with that personally but I beleive it's the case with a lot of the larger UK operators.

If you have sensory issues I'd say other noises on public transport would be far worse than a drivers radio like loud phone conversions or someone playing music out of their phone which would heard far louder in the passenger compartment than from the cab.

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121490592#Comment_121490592

It would be dangerous for a driver to wear headphones. They still need to be able to hear what is happening around them.

Passengers playing music without headphones is a different matter and I agree that is anti-social.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121490614#Comment_121490614

I know and I’d disagree with GA on that.

p_haugh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121490050#Comment_121490050

The 16 used to serve that stop a good few years ago iirc, but Dublin Bus moved it to the new stop further down for whatever reason, which made it surprising to see that the N4 was made stop at it!

bk

BTW another weird stop anomaly, across from Decathlon, outside the new DCC depot, there appears to be a bus stop, but there is no actual bus pole, just the outline on the ground and drivers seem to ignore it despite you ringing the bell. Stop 8240.

p_haugh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121490727#Comment_121490727

And on the IKEA side of the road, ever since the 140 was moved out of the IKEA car park, it has a different terminus stop (7150) to the 155, despite being right beside the 155 terminus stop (7697), and the buses use the same lay-by anyways.

After looking at TFI Live, the same 140 stop (7150) is treated as the start of the route, despite also serving stop 7698 less that 20 meters away 🤦‍♂️

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121490050#Comment_121490050

What is really weird about these particular bus stops, is that the N4 stop is a high quality stop with room to pull in and a nice bus shelter, while the 16 stop less then 100 meters away that the 16 uses, is just a pole, no shelter or place to pull in!

But worse, if you want to get the N4 West bound, you have to walk back past the N4 east bound stop to get to a junction with traffic lights that let you cross the road to get to the N4 east bound! Really doesn’t make any sense.

Actually the pedestrian environment around this area is terrible. No way to cross from the 16 stop to the other side of the road. No Pedestrian crossing anywhere between The Swords Road junction and the Grace Park Road junction.

At least they fixed the Grace Park Road junction, making it 4 way rather then 3 way. But the Swords Road one still isn’t great with need to cross three sets of traffic lights to cross North - South.

Definitely all needs to be fixed as part of BusConnects infrastructure project.

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121490809#Comment_121490809

Christ, no!

I just checked the plans for BusConnects Swords Scheme and it turns out they are going to remove the better N4 stop in front of the church, while keeping the crappy 16 stop! That is absolutely CRAZY, what are they thinking!

At least it looks like they will slightly improve the pedestrian crossings at the junction of Swords Road and Collins Avenue, but still!

Citrus_8

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121490614#Comment_121490614

Depending on disorder, for some people repetitive and expected sounds actually doesn't stand out and stays in the background while some once off irregular sounds can trigger. We can train ourselves to get used to regular passenger noises, but irregular ones are the problem. So I disagree with that other (= regular/usual) PT noises would be far worse. It's really depending on disorder.

Citrus_8

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121490676#Comment_121490676

What about driver listening to music with only one earphone? Eg, right one for music. It's a win win then.