BusConnects Dublin - Big changes to Bus Network

Citrus_8

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120556829#Comment_120556829

Even if it's only 10-20, it would already be a huge input. However, many Ukrainians have a high education and may not want to do a driver's job. Those who know English, are most likely already have jobs... We're not really in the position to be picky. But I hope the government doesn't think that the Europeans will save their lazy asses.

thomasj

https://www.thejournal.ie/contactless-payments-buses-dublin-bus-6060715-May2023/

Good news

p_haugh

Wonder what routes it'll be trialled on.

Also, anyone know what machines they will be using?

thomasj

I wonder will it be across the board just available to a select group

devnull

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120562301#Comment_120562301

Contactless in what way though? The half baked type of setup they are trialling on BE is contactless technically but it's not the kind of setup most of us are looking for when we talk about it.

p_haugh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120562378#Comment_120562378

Yes, it will be interesting to see what the implementation is.

Kyleboy

Yes, it's the half baked version, similar to bus eireann i believe, only on trial estimated to be fully operational in 12 months time.

devnull

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120562758#Comment_120562758

So basically a flash of the app to show the driver, which is not going to help boarding times. In fact it might even slow things down now as people need to interact with the driver to use said payment when they didn't before by using LEAP.

I guess it allows someone to tick a box and say they implemented contactless though, so kudos to them. Sigh.

Daith

How does the BE contactless work then? I thought this was going to by like London and just using your bank card or phone to tag on or off

p_haugh

When you say the "BE implementation", do you mean the TFI Go app? That's technically not contactless (in the terms of payments).

Would prefer full bank card-type contactless, but at least this is the beginning of better payment options.

Daith

Most of the reporting mentions using debit cards as contactless but of course they could be just assuming

devnull

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120563125#Comment_120563125

You activate a ticket on your phone and you then show it to the driver. I agree that it is not true contactless but some people have called it contactless because there isn't any contact.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Wv8MXwhveY

If the NTA really are going to launch full contactless with Google Pay, Apple Pay and bank cards that will be great, but I'd have thought if they were we would have heard more about it by now and about contacts being awarded for the running of the system etc, but there's been very little. Hopefully I'm wrong though.

But it does seem strange that despite all the talk about contactless in the media over the last few days, there is almost no detail other than they are bringing contactless in. If they were going down the line of full contactless with bank cards and Google Pay and Apple Pay you'd have expected them to actually be making a more of a song and dance about it in their media comments.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120563498#Comment_120563498

Is that not just more long winded than using a Leap Card on the bus?

Having to select your jouney details etc...surely its quicker to just walk on the bus and tap the scanner?

bk

Yes, strange, I don’t think they are due to award the contract for the next gen ticketing until the end of the year!

Though perhaps they have decided to trial a system with Cubic as part of their Leap operational contract. Perhaps just a quick trial of a simple tap to pay terminals. Maybe just limit it to the 90 minute ticket, no capping, etc. for now.

A simple setup like this, just below the existing Leap card validators should be pretty quick and easy. This is pretty straightforward off the shelf technology these days, hardly rocket science.

Once the contract is awarded, they can then move onto the more complicated parts, short fares, capping, new ticketing machines, new back end systems and eventually integrating Leap into the new system and removing the old leap validators.

Daith

The contract isn't due to be awarded until the end of this year? How long has this process being going on? (I do understand the lengthy public procurement rules)

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120566475#Comment_120566475

They had short listed 4 companies around October/November last year. It is a contract for 10 years, which will include up to €440 million in capital costs and €1.2 Billion in operational costs, so they would want to get the contract right.

Just the tap to pay part would be a pretty small part of a much larger project.

mikeybhoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120563498#Comment_120563498

Lol that's like saying the old paper FTP passes are contactless

CatInABox

Proper contactless years away, says NTA chief.

https://twitter.com/Feljin_J/status/1655686525550571521

devnull

Have to say that it's not surprising as I had heard nothing to back-up that true contactless payment via credit/debit cards and mobile phones were coming soon. It seems to be someone in the media who has runaway with themselves and put two and two together and come up with five.

However also the idea that it's just a case of buying new ticket machines like the tweeter suggests is also incorrect. There's a significant amount of infrastructure, processes and systems behind the scenes that would underpin such system that would also need to be put in place. Rolling out new ticket machines is simply just the front end part.

I agree though that procurement takes far too long and has been drawn out and we should be further forward than we are, but the idea we could just put new ticket machines on every bus and that by itself would simply resolve the issues overnight without anything else being done is rather fanciful.

AX636

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120572714#Comment_120572714

And said Dublin Bus buses are to old for this new system, just can't make this up

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120573572#Comment_120573572

It has nothing to do with the buses.

It is the ticket machines and the back office processing systems that are the problem.

They need to be completely upgraded.

AX636

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120573610#Comment_120573610

I know but thats what she said on the radio this morning

halfpastneverr

Why can't they just buy new machines and back end systems? the DB ticket machines were old 20 years ago like. Not as if this is a surprise, especially to yer one Graham who was high up in Dublin Bus for many years. So bloody frustrating!

This, combined with the total bodge job that busconnects has been (nearly a decade of public consultations and subsequent watering down to what essentially was a load of bus lanes!) leaves me with no faith in whatever acronym is in charge of buses in Dublin, be it NTA, TFI or DOT to effect any useful change for regular service users.

Shambles from start to finish and no hope of luring people from cars.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120581550#Comment_120581550

Just to correct you, as none of the senior management at the NTA came from Dublin Bus or any of the CIÉ companies.

Anne Graham is a civil engineer who came from local government in Dublin, while Hugh Creegan is a roads engineer who worked at the the National Roads Authority.

It’s now almost five years since the initial public consultation on the infrastructure plans, back in June 2018.

The fundamental problem at the NTA is that they have been under-resourced from the start and have tried to do too much with too few staff. That's primarily the government's fault, for not giving them the necessary resources.

Going for big ticket projects, while understandable from a political perspective, has meant that the smaller potential gains have just got lost in the ether of the big projects.

That, along with the NTA on many times refusing to believe what the people with actual experience of operating public transport in Ireland told them, and then hiring external consultants who, most times, ended up just confirming what the operating company management had told them in the first place, meant that projects have taken far longer than they ought to.

In simple terms, they're guilty of biting off more than they can chew.

At this stage they need to just get a move on.

bk

Also I’d point out that the delays in rolling out the BusConnect network are due to a lack of drivers. This is the responsibility of Dublin Bus and GAI, it is their job to hire and retain drivers. Nothing to do with the NTA.

Now I don’t really blame DB, etc. for this as it is an industry wide problem, frankly a problem impacting almost every industry in Ireland. But it is pretty poor to lay the blame at the feet of the NTA when it isn’t their responsibility.

Having said that, there is plenty to criticise the NTA for that is under their responsibility, they poor new TFI app, how long it is taking to do next gen ticketing, not rolling out the 3k short fare to all routes, etc.

But also they have definitely had some big success, the 90 minute €2 ticket and the young persons fare are a fantastic success. The 24/7 bus routes and the orbital N4 and N6 routes are big success, what is frustrating about those, is that it shows that the ideas behind BusConnects are absolutely correct, we just want them rolled out to all routes quicker.

CatInABox

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120583905#Comment_120583905

Ultimately, the NTA (and it's predecessors) were massively underfunded, given only enough to do very minor projects, and maintain what they had. So it's the various governments fault, essentially.

trellheim

We are emailing you to provide a status update in relation to the Core Bus Corridors.

This week, the National Transport Authority (NTA) gave notice of its application under Section 51(2) of the Roads Act 1993 (as amended) to An Bord Pleanála for approval in relation to a proposed road development consisting of the construction of the Swords to City Centre Core Bus Corridor Scheme.

For information, a small number of changes have been made to this scheme following consideration of the submissions received during the third round of public consultation (at the end of 2020) and these are summarised below.

• Cycle track previously within Santry Park and Morton Stadium maintained online in the final Preferred Route Option but reduced to 1.5m in width over a distance of approximately 300m;
• Minor reconfiguration of the proposed north and south approaches to the Airport roundabout;
• Provision of a new pedestrian crossing at Santry Close, near the Northwood junction;
• Provision a terminus for the D4 Route in the green space at the junction of Coolock Lane and the Swords Road;
• Provision of a dedicated left-turn lane from Santry Avenue;
• More detailed provision of off-street parking in Santry Village, to offset loss of on-street parking;
• Provision of a new pedestrian crossing adjacent to the Comet bar in Santry;
• Reduction in cycle track width in the vicinity of Plunkett College and Highfield Hospital, to reduce impacts on adjacent mature trees;
• Further development of the Griffith Avenue junction layout, to tie in with the Griffith Avenue Cycle Scheme;
• Segregation between pedestrians and cyclists on the new bridge over the River Tolka;
• Provision of a new segregated cycle track outbound between St Alphonsus Road Lower and Hollybank Road in order to avoid conflict with pedestrians;
• Further optimisation of parking and loading bay provision along Drumcondra Road Lower;
• Provision of a two-way cycle track on the west side of Parnell Square East in order to avoid interface with pedestrians and buses at the bus stops along the east side of Parnell Square East; and
• Further rationalisation of bus stop locations, with some bus stops relocated or removed to achieve a better spacing between stops, while also ensuring that each stop is sited in the best location to serve surrounding neighbourhoods.

A copy of the application documentation may be viewed and downloaded free of charge at www.swordsscheme.ie .Please note all previous documents regarding BusConnects are still available on www.busconnects.ie

Submissions/observations on this scheme may be made in writing to the Board at An Bord Pleanála (Strategic Infrastructure Division), 64 Marlborough Street, Dublin 1, D01 V902 between Tuesday 23rd  May 2023 and Tuesday 18th July 2023.

Any submissions/observations must be accompanied by a fee of €50 and must be received by the Board not later than 5.30 p.m. on the 18th July 2023. This fee will not apply to certain prescribed bodies including those specified in Section 51(3)(b) of the Roads Act 1993 (as amended) or to landowners and others with a legal interest in land who are objecting to compulsory acquisition of land in which they have such an interest in a compulsory acquisition case.

Submissions/observations can also be made on the An Bord Pleanála website at the following address: https://www.pleanala.ie/en-ie/observations

It is our intention to submit the schemes on a phased basis with the next three schemes likely to be submitted in the order shown below:

• Kimmage to City Centre CBC Scheme;
• Ringsend to City Centre CBC Scheme;
• Bray to City Centre CBC Scheme.

As each scheme is submitted for approval to An Bord Pleanála, the process of public notifications in newspapers and online will be repeated.

Yours Sincerely,

BusConnects Team

[MOD:] A small edit to fix two broken links. Thanks trellheim

( Author edit as well - I signed up to these due to the utterly lacking provision from the NTA of local updates to communities concerned . This boards.ie thread is about the only decent place it all comes together .

brianc89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120611375#Comment_120611375

Great to see plans for the Swords QBC. Glad to see they've relocated the bus stops closer to Drumcondra rail... much enhanced Dart connection.

At Binn's bridge (Canal at Drumcondra), there is only 1 lane inbound over the bridge, a reduction from current 3 (2x general, 1x bus). This feels like a mistake given the volume of traffic (cars + buses) from Whitworth Rd as well as Drumcondra.

I think they could have removed some more left or right turns at some junctions such as Griffith Avenue. They removed some closer to the city along Dorset, which is probably wise.

cgcsb

They're getting through the submissions to abp at pace now. Any indication of oral hearing on the other corridors submitted last year?

cgcsb

What in the holy name of Irish Engineering solutions is this?