BusConnects Dublin - Big changes to Bus Network

CatInABox

You may hate buzzwords, but there's a very simple reason that they're prevalent, and it's quite simple: politics.

Getting funding from the government for anything is a nightmare, so it's given a name, and a photo op for politicians to gurn at the cameras. Hence "Next Gen Ticketing" and "BusConnects". That's why they package everything together too, to make it more attractive for politicians. Grim, but perhaps a necessary evil in our political system.

dublinman1990

The obligations to reduce emissions for climate change in Irish law makes the notion of scrapping BusConnects a non-runner in the near future.

There is no way that a plan of that scale would be replaced with something with a smaller remit but comes with aims that brings down the same amount of carbon emissions.

You have to remember Dublin is the not only part of the country in where BusConnects is getting implemented.

Every other city in Ireland outside of Dublin is currently under a similar level of trouble with lending their hand with increasing these emissions.

They need to be accounted for with making a significant contribution to reducing our transport emissions to give us a much healthier future in the short to medium term.

These are just some of the main reasons why a project like BusConnects cannot be shelved now or in the future. It has to stay in it's current form even though it's execution hasn't been so perfect to date.

It is vital that we as a society need to see this project go ahead even though it will be a hard slog in the interim.

The G-Spine in particular do try to link up their bus routes to allow people to catch a connecting train or Luas trams in Dublin City Centre already.

If BusConnects really becomes successful while trying to give passengers improved connection times between using their bus & DART+ services throughout the GDA. It would be an incredible achievement for me to see all that work come true.

That is something that has to be encouraged more often in other parts of the country that offer similar services as well.

cgcsb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120547434#Comment_120547434

I'd agree that the NTA and all government bodies have adopted the wrong approach.

Instead of implementing changes quickly and cheaply they opted for glossy brochures and big sexy mega projects. The correct approach would have been implementing the bones of bus connects infrastructure quickly without going through endless public consultstions and the abp planning process. They could have then improved it gradually later by applying for planning for improved bus corridors. Bus gates and bus lanes on existing roads don't need planning permission its paint on the road and can be done cheaply and quickly with direct design and build contracts.

Government could pass legislation to give the nta enforcement powers on bus lanes, spend a few thousand on a software package and a few cameras and boom 20% reduction in journey times with delays caused by cars abolished in much of the bus network. A few car bans on city centre streets could also be done for free and have an instant positive effect.

Similarly DART expansion could have been 80% delivered through incremental improvement to what is an existing railway and that's how things are done in normal developed countries but we like a glossy brochure and a consultant fee in Ireland.

Not sure I follow you on electrification. The benefits are a reduction in PM10 and PM2.5 carcinogenic compounds that also induce breathing difficulties particularly amongst asthmatics and particularly amongst children. Plus a small contribution to reducing greenhouse gas emissions.

Citrus_8

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120548440#Comment_120548440

Your ideas are nice, I very much agree to your approach, and it could work in an ideal world. You're focusing to the end result, which is great! Politicians usually focus to a 'doing something' approach rather than the actual results as it's easier to them - need less effort. They love talking about the plans and solutions to the problems they create. It empowers them to look 'confident and competent'. It's an illusion that they are doing everything what's possible. It's a pragmatic and slightly cynical way of doing things. They think they look good in media by doing so as they get lots of attention. Sadly, only the minority of voters are not selfish (care about more than just related to their own lives). Nearly all solutions within the politics end up with some sort of budget and plans with a minor result. Clerks are no better, but due to segregation of duties, they are disabled to do everything they want they way they want, even if it's better to the society. Bureaucracy and politics sucks, but at least it's not the worst in Ireland, comparing to some other states.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120548904#Comment_120548904

Youre never going to get the majority of people using buses. Period.

If people have to pay more to sit in their cars in traffic, thats what they will do.

Those that drive today and enjoy driving are not going to get 2 or 3 buses to get to work and get pissed on in the interchanges.

Go underground or go home.

Why are we not building one?

Burt Renaults

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120548912#Comment_120548912

Then make them enjoy it less. More road space for buses, less road space for cars, strictly-policed bus lanes, no on-street parking, punitive tolls at peak hours, etc. Make them sit there in their cars for hours on end, costing a fortune, while buses zoom past, inexpensive and unencumbered.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120548944#Comment_120548944

And lose business to other countries that actually have modern transport.

Burt Renaults

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120548950#Comment_120548950

Clogging public space with private cars... is not modern transport. They need to go.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120548966#Comment_120548966

Agreed. But then we need an Underground.

Not limited buses on limited roads, Sharing space with limited cars.

brianc89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120548912#Comment_120548912

Actually, research shows exactly the opposite... if people have to sit longer in cars, they will use quicker alternatives.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120549001#Comment_120549001

Not if the alternative takes even longer :)

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120547434#Comment_120547434

They'll have a big effect on air quality in the city centre which benefits everyone there whether they take the bus or not. Less traffic noise benefits everyone too.

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120548973#Comment_120548973

No, this is an idea pushed by the motoring industry and self entitled motorists. Basically the idea is force public transport users underground so that motorists aren't disturbed!

But it doesn't work that way, even the cities with the best underground systems, they still use massive amounts of buses they are still increasingly banning cars from their cities.

Look at London, fantastic London Underground system, 160 years old, yet London Bus still carries more passengers per day then the underground and London still has congestion charging and is increasingly banning cars from roads, building bigger cycling and walking infrastructure.

Look at Paris, fantastic Metro system and they are currently doing a massive project to ban cars from most of the city center and building big lanes, walking infrastructure, etc. Barcelona, Amsterdam, I could go on.

Pretty much every city in Europe has recongised that leaving cars into the city center is a big mistake and are all working to greatly reduce if not completely remove them.

bk

As for the question, should BusConnects be one big plan or separate smaller plans, it doesn't really matter.

Keep in mind, "BusConnects" is just branding for an umbrella of lots of different bus improvement plans. Network, Infrastrucutre, ticketing, etc. Each of these are happening in parallel. And even within these, they appear to be broken down by corridor.

So even if you didn't call it "BusConnects" and instead just called them a dozen different plans, "Next Gen Ticketing", "Corridor A Infrastructure", etc. It would still basically be the exact same plan, with the same issues, just called something else.

You would still have the lack of drivers delaying the rollout of the orbital routes. You would still have NIMBY's objecting to infrastructure changes.

I don't really see anything in BusConnects that we should drop, frankly it all needs doing.

The only complaint I'd have is that wee should have started doing all this 30 years ago. The reason this is such an ambitious plan, is because of how far behind our bus service is compared to the rest of Europe.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120550073#Comment_120550073

Underground is part of an integrated solution in the cities you mention.

We need it in Dublin also, to sit alongside the Luas, Bus and DART.

Because those 3 solutions on their own wont ever enable a full transition away from the car. Too many lobbyists im the motor industry and as we have said on this thread, too many journeys that are unviable via bus etc sharing roads with cars.

BusConnects is now on a permenant delay because we cant even hire the drivers.

bk

"Underground is part of an integrated solution in the cities you mention."

Of course and I'm a massive "fan" of Metrolink, we desperately need it and more like it.

However it is going to take 15 to 20 years to build. And even once built it will only serve a small part of the city.

So we will still badly need buses before that and continue to need them after it is built.

As a result, we desperately need to improve our bus services in the meantime. That means reducing the number of cars in the city and given more of the road space over to Buses and cycling and walking.

Disco24

What about maximising use of existing infrastructure with eg cross country trains.. similiar to RE regional trains model in Germany.

Belfast to Cork train via Connolly with stop at Drumcondra to connect to Airport buses. With build of east bound platform and access at Heuston, tunnel branch.

Sligo to Rosslare

Waterford to Dundalk

Etc..

Longer term.. increase platforms at Connolly where sidings are located.

cgcsb

What do any of these discussions have to do with bus connects?

rx8

Apparently now the "O" orbital route is to be delayed until next year due to infrastructure issues. The electric buses that are to be used on it will be put on other routes in the meantime.

loyatemu

I thought the infrastructure issue was lack of charging facilities?

AX636

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120552914#Comment_120552914

There being a big f up in Summerhill, work has stopped as planning permission was revoked by DCC, so now builders are saying it won't be for another 12 weeks before they can even dig a hole..You couldn't make this up.

LXFlyer

Given the current staffing shortfalls at Dublin Bus, it’s highly unlikely they would have the drivers to operate the service in any case.

CatInABox

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120553214#Comment_120553214

Indeed. The O is one of the most important routes of BusConnects, probably the most important in my opinion, and it needs to be nailed first time from the get go. That means having next to zero cancelled buses, and that's not going to happen without a significant improvement in the number of drivers available.

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120552914#Comment_120552914

Is there charging infrastrucutre at another depot other then Summerhill? Unless there is, they can't use them elsewhere.

If there is, then perhaps they could use them on the N2. I could be wrong, but I'd guess the N2 might be ok with just single deckers. I can't think of too many other routes with low enough demand for single deckers to work on. Maybe GAI's outer routes that currently use single deckers, but they might be a bit long for the battery range.

CatInABox

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120553337#Comment_120553337

I believe that the Broadstone depot has chargers.

AX636

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120553337#Comment_120553337

Phibsboro

CatInABox

The Government finally do the extremely obvious and good thing.

https://twitter.com/EamonRyan/status/1654112295331430402

rx8

Charging infrastructure is currently being installed in Summerhill, Phibsboro and Ringsend garages.

cgcsb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120553251#Comment_120553251

The only way for the O route to run smoothly would be if a contraflow bus lane was built between SCR and Adelaide Road and a bus gate was implemented at Doyles Corner, both moves would put a really serious dent in car commuting in central Dublin and government seems unwilling to do that.

mikeybhoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120554505#Comment_120554505

And how many Ukrainians living in Ireland have C and D licences?