BusConnects Dublin - Big changes to Bus Network

trashcan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120493191#Comment_120493191

I get that, has happened to me before. It’s still annoying, but so be it. The point here is he had already opened the doors, so I still think he was being a dick.

VonLuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120494194#Comment_120494194

I really don't think you're getting what I'm saying. I'm surprised that the labour shortage is the ONLY reason why there's such a delay on these routes. I am not surprised there are no bus drivers available. There are so many hoops to jump through to deliver a project like this and then only to be let down by a lack of staff is not the norm. Anyways, this is not productive discussion so I'm going to stop now.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120496273#Comment_120496273

No I didn’t get that at all!

Thanks for clarifying, as it certainly read to me as if you were saying something else!

Yes we are in different times indeed.

trellheim

I got sent a note saying the revised Templeogue Rathfarnham QBC will be going for planning tomorrow

Hotblack Desiato

We're where London Transport were about 60 years ago.

Qrt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120496328#Comment_120496328

Oh god, that’ll be fun.

Qrt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120493826#Comment_120493826

Indo I think, popped up on the work PC.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120496328#Comment_120496328

It’s probably the most controversial of the proposed CBCs with three bus gates and a lot of diverted traffic.

It will be interesting to see what the final proposals are.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120496463#Comment_120496463

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/news/dublins-phoenix-park-may-be-hit-with-car-parking-charges-42436317.html?

A Dublin Bus service will be piloted, potentially this summer, to encourage the use of more climate-friendly transport by visitors to the park.

It will run from Parkgate at the city end along the main artery, Chesterfield Avenue, as tourist buses do at present. It will not proceed further west than the visitor centre located near the Phoenix column at the heart of the park.

But a bus service which had been planned from Heuston Station through the Cabra Gate as far as Broombridge station - to allow those arriving from the country to connect with commuter rail services and the Luas - will now not go ahead.

Experiments have shown that the Dublin Bus fleet would not be able to negotiate the Cabra Gate safely, which involves something of a hairpin turn onto Blackhorse Avenue, a relatively narrow thoroughfare.

The Indo certainly have the wrong end of the stick about the N2.

The bus route will happen as it’s an Important part of BusConnects, but presumably will go around the perimeter of the Phoenix Park as per the original plans.

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120496383#Comment_120496383

The first London Underground line opened 160 years ago!

Hotblack Desiato

Well yeah but I meant in terms of staffing issues!

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120494063#Comment_120494063

Thanks.

Car travel it is for me so.

It seems crazy to me that with all the refugees in the country and the thousands on welfare in Dublin alone, how can we not recruit enough bus drivers from the pool of people...

The govt really need to look at incentivising workers again.

StreetLight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120497639#Comment_120497639

You have made the same mistake as the NTA in assuming that practically anyone can be a bus driver and that there can be no staff shortage.

Bus driving takes a certain level of skill that has been explained before within these forums. It's not a job for just anyone. Therefore in the current climate of staffing issues across practically all industries at the moment, shortages are inevitable and likely to stay that way for a while longer.

You can't simply 'incentivise' your way out of a skills shortage if the right calibre of person is not there to begin with.

dublinman1990

With all of the initial cancellations that have occurred on the 33b, 75 & 175 in GAI recently. Will it have any negative affect on the rollout of the Western Orbitals in late May?

Citrus_8

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120497639#Comment_120497639

We currently have a record unemployment, but also need teachers, builders, as well as drivers too... Refugees might bot have a certain level of English to receive information during training and probably are mainly mothers with children who want to stay home safely with them rather than be exposed in a stressful environment of learning new language and new skills. It will take a long time for refugees to integrate and definitely not all will do... This is a huge logical error which the government has made too in thinking that refugees will be a great pool of choice to get people to do jobs...

VonLuck

Are there any drawings for the proposed orbital routes or is it just the overall network map that's been made available? I'd like to see proposed bus stops, changes in any bus/cycle lanes etc. I've seen it for some of the spine routes but don't recall any orbitals for some reason.

Hotblack Desiato

Record unemployment??? Run that one by me again.

I think a lot would be surprised to learn how many people have no problem getting a private car licence but are ruled out of PSV, HGV etc on medical grounds.

bk

"We currently have a record unemployment, but also need teachers, builders, as well as drivers too... Refugees might bot have a certain level of English to receive information during training and probably are mainly mothers with children who want to stay home safely with them rather than be exposed in a stressful environment of learning new language and new skills. It will take a long time for refugees to integrate and definitely not all will do... This is a huge logical error which the government has made too in thinking that refugees will be a great pool of choice to get people to do jobs..."

To put it in context, the current unemployment rate is less then it was at the peak of the Celtic Tiger years!

Despite the craziness of the Celtic Tiger years, the one aspect it did have going for it, was that we were actually building large number of homes and in general there was enough housing available to keep rents "reasonable" and attract in workers. By comparison the current housing crisis is really constraining our whole economy.

On refugees, yes most of the Ukrainian refugees are women with children. However most are definitely working or want to work. I was down in Killarney recently and it seemed like every second person working in the shops, restaurants, etc. down there were Ukrainian. Many of the cleaning staff in the hotels too. I think it is more of a case of Bus driving not being attractive to them. The idea of driving a bus at night, antisocial behaviour plus the struggle of renting in Dublin I could imagine being very off putting for a woman fleeing a war with children at home too look after.

CatInABox

I believe that they mean record low unemployment, as they would match with the rest of their post.

cgcsb

You need an Irish or possibly UK drivers license to apply to be a bus driver

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120498389#Comment_120498389

The only info are the network maps.

They have relocated bus stops closer to junctions to facilitate connections for the N4 and N6, and there are works being carried out by DLRCoCo and SDCoCo to relocate some stops ongoing, along with a new terminus on the Dundrum by-pass for the L25 & 74.

There are no priority measures published for the orbital routes at present.

They are still working on the radial core bus corridor planning applications, with the 7th of 12 having been lodged with ABP today.

The orbital corridors will be looked at after the radial ones, but given how long it is taking to get to where we are now with them, it will be a long wait (both for the plans to be published and literally on the buses).

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120497820#Comment_120497820

Agreed that not everyone can be trained to be a bus driver, but i dont believe we have 0 candidates, that at least could be trained up if they werent already qualified, out of 100k refugees plus all the unemployed and part time workers in Greater Dublin.

We dont need even a 0.1% succesful hire rate from that pool to take on 50 drivers.

It wouldnt happen overnight, but there is a pool to draw from, if we thought outside the box a little.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120497925#Comment_120497925

Agreed, but have we even done an initial skills assessment of the refugees here?

Do we know that there are no quallified bus drivers or similar in that pool of 100k?

These people will be here for years in many cases and as you say, we have multiple skill shortages, some of which could be addressed through a) Refugee employment (where practical)

b) incentivising of part time workers and the unemployed to return to full time employment.

If an umemployed family with 3 kids are taking home more than an equivalent family with both parents working on the median wage, why the hell would someone work?

LXFlyer

The companies are recruiting people, but the problem now is seemingly retention of staff. The recruitment rate isn’t greatly exceeding the rate of retirement or staff leaving.

There’s also a limit on how many people can go through the training school at any one time.

VonLuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120498823#Comment_120498823

I know you were saying before that the only limitation on some of the orbitals becoming live is the number of bus drivers. However, if the full details haven't been published yet isn't there a risk that there will be further delays as a result of route improvements which haven't been made public yet?

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120499833#Comment_120499833

Why?

All that is happening is adding some bus stops in various locations, nothing else.

That has pretty much happened now - kerbing put in place & bus stop cages marked out, it doesn’t need consultations etc., they aren’t publishing reams of documentation on it.

You’ll see the locations when you use the bus!

They’ve just got on with it.

p_haugh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120499875#Comment_120499875

Just to point out, in a lot of cases where they've put in new stops for bus connects (orbital or spine), they have just stuck up a TFI stop pole. In most cases there's been no kerbing added.

There have been some stops done with kerbing of course, but this seems to be mainly the "main" stops and of course the new interchanges.

Hopefully this is just a short-term measure and they add in the kerbing at a later date

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120500033#Comment_120500033

I’m speaking from observing new stops in Dundrum, Ballinteer and on Nutgrove Avenue.

The point is that they certainly won’t stop routes being launched.

VonLuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120499875#Comment_120499875

I was just asking the question because I don't know the answer. If all that's involved is the addition of a few poles, obviously that wouldn't be impactful in terms of timelines. It's when you said "There are no priority measures published for the orbital routes at present" and "The orbital corridors will be looked at after the radial ones", it sounded like the extent of works were unknown.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120500062#Comment_120500062

I was talking about the core bus corridors (CBCs), in other words the bus priority measures.

The CBCs and the revised network are two completely independent projects from one another.

The CBCs have to go through a lengthy planning process and will take years to complete.

The network will change in phases as drivers and buses are available.