BusConnects Dublin - Big changes to Bus Network

tnegun

Any news on the W61/W62? They were rumored to start this Sunday. No sign of the stops being installed yet either in Maynooth at least.

d51984

I see a local priest in Rathmines is urging locals to object to bus gate, he should really stay out of it tbh.

Warning : the link is to the Dublin Live website, pinch of salt needed in places.

https://www.dublinlive.ie/news/dublin-news/rathmines-priest-calls-parishioners-object-26997327

Citrus_8

Ah, another moaner for their business having an impact. Church, as very often, is completely isolated from the outside world problems and only lobby their own interests.

cgcsb

Lol 'parishioners', he's not seen one of them in a while

Midnight_EG

I drive a bus through Rathmines daily, I've never seen a wedding or a funeral being held there once

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120645532#Comment_120645532

Well I've been to a funeral there so, let's not start down that road.

They do both happen, but it doesn't mean that the priest is right.

Citrus_8

I bet it'd be a much more popular place if we'd give the building for the use of a pub. Often pub clientele doesn't require a car park so it's an absolute win win. We could hire a priest as a bouncer to insist people not to enter.

john boye

Always makes me laugh how people like him don't see how a more reliable, frequent bus service might actually bring more people to him.

brianc89

I was gonna argue that the priest might have a point (not that I agree). But actually, no he absolutely doesn't.

His main issue is the one way system, it's not even about parking. The church will still have ample parking for funeral or wedding cars. Most funeral or wedding attendees can, and should, use public transport or walk to the church.

Totally out of touch. He might actually attract more parishioners if he embraced changes such as these.

d51984

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120646036#Comment_120646036

Haha, Ill deffo drink to that!

BlueSkyDreams

What actually is the bus gate restriction for cars?

it doesnt stop cars driving through Rathmines village if i understand correctly?

But they cant cut across from Ranelagh to Rathmines via Mount Pleasant & Richmond Hill?

Because The Mount Pleasant route will be bus only?

Seems an odd route to prioritise for buses only but i have probably misunderstood the route and its impact.

Looking at Google Maps, there arent even any bus stops along that Mount Pleasant route?

LXFlyer

The bus gate is planned to be on Rathmines Road Lower just north of Richmond Hill and is planned to operate between 06:00 and 20:00 Monday to Sunday, meaning that cars will not be able to drive along the length of Rathmines Road Lower during those hours.

No through traffic would be allowed along Mountpleasant Avenue north of Richmond Hill.

Page 31 of the document linked below shows the bus gate. Best viewed on a PC rather than phone due to the size.

https://templeoguerathfarnhamscheme.ie/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/04/Volume-1-General-Arrangement-Drawings.pdf

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120648167#Comment_120648167

Ahhh i see. Thanks.

So cars coming into town from that direction would likley detour at Castlewood Ave into Ranelagh I expect.

Or is there a bus gate there also?

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120648197#Comment_120648197

Or via Harold's Cross at Terenure.

No bus gate in Ranelagh, but possibly some bans on turns to avoid rat runs developing.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120648228#Comment_120648228

Ok. That would surely divert the majority of cars via Castlwood Ave (some Harolds Cross but its not as direct to most offices/retail destinations).

What is the reaction in Ranelagh to that do you know? I imagine they arent super happy about all that diverted traffic.

Can taxis use the bus gates?

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120648252#Comment_120648252

Remember that there are other measures planned:

1) A bus gate inbound on Templeogue Road near Terenure Village preventing through car traffic

2) Rathgar Road will be one way northbound except for buses which will still be able to travel southbound

3) The Portobello Bridge and South Richmond Street will be bus only northbound

4) Camden Street will be bus only northbound between Charlotte Way and Cuffe Street

So traffic flows will change significantly.

I’ve provided a link to the plans in my post above - could I suggest you have a look at the drawings as they will answer most of your questions.

If people aren’t happy, they’re free to make a submission to ABP - I suspect that plenty of objections will follow, but at the end of the day you’re not going to improve the bus service in south central Dublin without some major changes to traffic.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120648323#Comment_120648323

Thanks, yes i did look at the link, I am just not familiar with the drawing layouts but what you say below is clear.

It looks to me like cars will generally (if coming via Rathmines today) divert via Castelwood Av to Ranelagh, East onto Northwood/Dartmouth Rd and then into town via Baggot Street.

What is the anticipated impact for buses though? they would still only get about 1km of restricted road between lower rathmines & camden street but then would meet the same volume of traffic they are encounterimg today, thereafter (the bus gate) and before it.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120648363#Comment_120648363

https://templeoguerathfarnhamscheme.ie/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2023/03/Non-Technical-Summary.pdf

Click on the above and go to numbered page 14 (it's page 16 of the document) for a description of the plans in simple English.

Also, if you start at the beginning of the earlier document there is an index to the maps.

Remember that a lot of the traffic that comes down Rathgar Road will be already diverted elsewhere due to Templeogue Road being removed as a through route.

Remember also that the bus network is changing too, so the current routings through the city centre won't remain the same, especially with College Green being pedestrianised. Buses will divert via Cuffe Street, St. Stephen's Green South, East and North, and then Dawson Street, Nassau Street and Grafton Street.

There are lengthy bus lanes planned all along the route clearly marked in blue on the maps.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120648414#Comment_120648414

Thanks I will look.

When are these bus gates expected to come into force?

I personally would prefer to see bus gates, as opposed to widening roads for both buses and cars, which then destroys the surrounding areas and creates more traffic, so the bus gate option is preferable.

I still dont see how the plans will remove drivers from their cars tbh, if a journey takes 10 or 15 mins longer, drivers will sit with that.

But the bus routes will be slightly faster for those using them so there is that.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120648448#Comment_120648448

No one can say when this will happen. It's the sixth of eight planning applications lodged with An Bord Pleanála, and they have to go through a statutory process, and then there could be judicial reviews.

As for journey times, remember that the Kimmage Road scheme also involves bus gates, so cars are going to have far fewer options going to/from the city, which means that their journeys will be longer, while buses will be faster. No one can give a precise answer on what the differential will be.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120648508#Comment_120648508

Thanks.

Watch this space, I guess.

I still believe the true answer is an integrated Underground system, but I know thats not for this thread.

Its semi remarkable that some Dublin drivers i know still havent even heard of Busconnects.

I find that an interesting barometer and its why i dont see a core percentage of people ever shifting from cars, unless we had something truly efficient and dare i say it, sexy.

Something that tempted them, not corraled them, to change.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120648529#Comment_120648529

Most people zone out of these sort of things until they actually start being implemented.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120648548#Comment_120648548

True but Busconnects has been under roll out for a couple of years now i think?

Yet some drivers still havent even heard of it.

Buses are part of the solution, but if we ever want real public transport in Dublin, we need to build it around an Underground.

We are one of the largest 30 urban areas in the EU now and growing faster than many.

It would be great to see the govt build something sustainable for the future and for once, they cant say they dont have the money :)

trellheim

None of the really serious bits of BC infrastructure is in place yet. I agree by the way - I think BC is short-termism being paraded as a long term solution when heavy rail metro to Ongar, Tallaght and farther out should be with ABP not this stuff

bk

I desperately disagree!

Of course we badly need Dart+ and Metrolink, but we also badly need BusConnects, more Luas, high quality walking and cycling infrastructure and big reduction in cars.

If you look at any city with good public transport, it isn’t just underground but all of the above.

Look at London with the fantastic London Underground, one of the best in the world, yet London Bus carries more passengers every day than the underground! And they have congestion charging and are currently building lots of cycling infrastructure.

Paris and Barcelona, incredible underground systems, currently banning cars from most of their city center and replacing them with parks, cycle lanes and pedestrian only streets.

But wait, those are very big cities, what about Dublin sized cities? we’ll just look at Copenhagen and Amsterdam, almost exact same size as Dublin. They have fantastic metro’s (in fact Metrolink is basically a copy of the Copenhagen one) and yet they have tons of busses and tram lines and of course world class cycling and pedestrian infrastructure.

The reality is we need to do it all, it isn’t one or the other, it is all of the above. Any city with great public transport, also has great bus and tram services and cycle lanes, they all go hand in hand.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120653109#Comment_120653109

Any other metro routes are going to take years to develop.

Regardless, the bus service needs to be given proper priority measures and separated from cyclists where possible.

Not putting proper bus priority in place would be criminal.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120653759#Comment_120653759

But are there any plans to develop an Underground?

Metro North, which is just one line and DART Underground arent full networks (although they are a start).

I dont believe there is any real plan to create a networked Underground and that is frustrating and short sighted.

I noticed on the news today that taxis are using the College Green Bus Gate, so i assume taxis are exempt from restrictions?

still seemed to be cars and delivery vans in the background during the news report, so not sure how well this change will be enforced.

trellheim

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120653759#Comment_120653759

But - to this point - for example a bus gate at Rathmines doesnt help any of that. Most of the clog is at the canal bridge - which I've seen no proposal to give N/S priority over E/W traffic

All of my recent interactions at Rathmines have been 3 or 4 buses waiting to cross the canal bridge at the same time.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120653822#Comment_120653822

What I am saying is that is really a separate issue.

We shouldn’t be looking at it as one or the other (I’d prefer both!).

The current transport strategy only has one Metrolink line, one LUAS extension and the four DART line upgrades as definitely happening. Yes that is woefully short thinking but there you are.

The bus service needs the improved infrastructure regardless of what rail investment happens over the next few years.

This, to be fair, is a thread about bus services in Dublin and improving them! There’s other threads in the infrastructure forum about rail infrastructure investment.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120654062#Comment_120654062

Yes, indeed. This is bus related.

I guess we should let the govt deal with this roll out first, as there is still a fair way to go to complete it.

I hadnt realised taxis were still able to use the bus gates. I wonder if that will switch to electric only taxis in time.