BusConnects Dublin - Big changes to Bus Network

OscarMIlde

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118153297#Comment_118153297

Thanks for that, I couldn't find that information anywhere on the TFI website when I looked up information on the C spine, and I searched for it. When they initially announced the busconnects plan they specifically said that all the bus services would be routed through Lucan village and that loss of the Xs would be mitigated by increased buses/connectivity. The website should be more clear about the bus routes and frequencies, people shouldn't have to comb through trawls of information to stumble upon stuff. They are also not taking the opportunity to improve the X routes, making them more direct, or routing them away from congested areas, say for example having the 66X go from the 67X terminus up Straffan road towards the motorway and vice versa, thus avoiding the absolute ****show that Maynooth village is. I think while some things are an improvement with bus connects, there should have been a dual focus on improving commuter services to the city centre for workers at peak times and improving the general routes for all commuters. They have focused on the latter, but ignored the former, which will do little to reduce the reliance on cars that commuters have. Surely given the repeated climate change commitments Ireland is taking on, increasing the bus commuter numbers at peak times should have been a priority.

AngryLips

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118152295#Comment_118152295

Are you forgetting that the entire H-spine continues to terminate at a location completely inconvenient to most people traveling into city centre? The route changes are not controversial because they're all cosmetic. Everything we've got since cross-city launched has been cosmetic. New bus stops. New livery. New numbering. Network Direct was delivered in less time. The NTA missed a trick with H spine, G and H spines could have been one cross city spine, it makes no sense that people get dropped off at the most unsavoury edge of the city centre like that.

dublinman1990

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118153432#Comment_118153432

I think the idea of maintaining the integration of the Luas along with the other bus routes that do terminate at Abbey St was the main reason to keep them there. It's not a perfect area to have buses terminate there to many people. But in the NTA's eyes; maintaining the luas & bus links was the one reason they were kept there because they probably couldn't go anywhere else.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118153428#Comment_118153428

The original plan from 2018 was binned and a completely new plan was drawn up. So cast aside any memories that you had of the original plan as it was rightly ditched.

The final plan was published in September 2020. It is very easy to find here: https://busconnects.ie/initiatives/new-dublin-area-bus-network/

There is a big picture map and basic frequencies available using one click buttons on that page, along with local maps at the bottom.

That is my go-to page for what is happening - there may be small local changes, and some routes are being converted to 24 hour operations, but by and large that is the bible.

The main issue right now is that, for whatever reason, and personally I think it's very confusing, the NTA are releasing the information piecemeal about the C-Spine, and have yet to publish all of the timetables and specific route info.

They have not fully updated the information on the www.transportforireland.ie/c-spine page yet - they have only put up the main C-Spine routes and the 26 as yet. The timetable details for the rest (The 52, the L-Routes, the P-Routes and the X-Routes) have yet to be published.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118153432#Comment_118153432

I think that you're going a bit far describing Lower Abbey Street opposite the Abbey Theatre as "completely inconvenient" and "the most unsavoury edge of the city centre". A bit over the top perhaps? It's a 2 minute walk to O'Connell Street, and a minute to the Quays at Rosie Hackett Bridge.

I might have agreed with the unsavoury comment if the terminus was the far side of Gardiner Street, but come on, Lower Abbey Street is not that bad by any stretch of the imagination.

I do agree that it would have been better if the H Spine had continued across the city to somewhere else, but for whatever reason that didn't happen. Again that would require more buses and drivers and the funding may not have been available for that.

But, I cannot agree with your comment about it being "cosmetic". Yes the bus numbers, livery and stops all changed. That's the marketing side of re-launching the bus service.

But also the whole method of operation of the bus service along the corridor was changed.

• Stop-by-stop timetables implemented, meaning that buses operate to a timetable all along the route, rather than simply the terminus
• The timetables of the three Spine routes integrated in both directions to offer a co-ordinated service at all stops between All Saints Road and the City Centre
• Extended operating hours with buses starting at around 05:00 and running until after midnight
• Significant increase in frequency in both directions all week (requiring more buses and drivers)

All of that is not "cosmetic", and the amount of work involved in particular to come up with the new bus and staff rosters that deliver the actual public timetable takes months of specialised work.

Launching that new method of operation on a self-contained spine meant that the impact of something going wrong was greatly minimised.

tom1ie

Anyone know when they are starting work in the A spine corridor?

I presume it will be an uninterrupted QBC into the CC from Rathgar road?

thomasj

https://www.dublinbus.ie/DublinBus-Mobile/News/?depth=1&srcid=9473

i find it hilarious that for the map of the 1 route linked in that article , they only show the part of the route being discontinued and not the part that will continue to operate

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118155130#Comment_118155130

To be fair - it's showing the revised route in the city centre. The rest is unaffected. I think that most people would realise that surely?

The same applies to the 15a/b/d.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118154692#Comment_118154692

The corridor project has to go to ABP for planning permission - that's completely separate to the network changes which are being discussed here. There's a thread on the infrastructure proposals in the infrastructure forum - https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2057859339/dublin-busconnects/p1

But that being said, the planning applications for the corridors are supposed to be made soon, once the government approves the business case for that to happen. But "soon" is a rather loose term right now.

The last consultation proposals for the A Corridor (in November 2020) are here: https://busconnects.ie/media/2098/12-rathfarnham-to-cc-preferred-route-301020-fa-web.pdf and here https://busconnects.ie/media/2096/10-tallaght-to-terenure-preferred-route-301020fa-web.pdf

It involves redirecting southbound traffic off Rathgar Road and a bus gate on Rathmines Road.

We will have to wait and see what the final planning application includes.

Work won't physically start on any of the corridors until that planning permission is granted, and I wouldn't rule legal objections after that, given the strength of feeling among some people, particularly along the inner sections of the route.

Consequently, I wouldn't be holding my breath for anything to happen quickly.

The network changes will continue regardless, with orbitals being the main feature next year.

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118155510#Comment_118155510

Thanks. Great post LX.

p_haugh

One thing I just noticed on the TFI announcement, is that the Phase 2 map shows that the C1/C2 will continue to use the current diversion south of Sandymount (which the 1/47 currently take) that was put in place due to the Stand Road trial.

Buffman

Does anyone know who's running the 52 Intel route, seems to be very little info on it?

It's strange that they have the 52 and unrelated L52 so close together, I mean there were a lot of numbers to pick from and they pick the same.

Good to see the L58 has been rerouted to use Shinkeen Road in Celbridge as the bus could never have made the tight left turn from the R403 onto the R405 at the bridge that was the original route.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118156567#Comment_118156567

It will be operated by Dublin Bus. Planned to be an hourly frequency all day.

Again, the NTA are drip-feeding the timetables and route info out - I would expect that kind of info to appear next week.

Keep an eye on this page: https://www.transportforireland.ie/c-spine/

Buffman

Thanks, I guess random 52 wasn't cool enough the be included in the C-Spine club with the rest of them!😎😂🤣

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118156712#Comment_118156712

It’s a radial route - in other words it isn’t integrated with the schedules of the other C-Spine routes.

You couldn’t evenly space a set of services (C1-C4) that have two services per hour each with one that had a single hourly service.

Most spines will have similar routes that will run to their own schedule.

TranslatorPS

The 52 schedule is complete and has been advertised to drivers, so it should be made public soon enough. At its core it's f-60 with a PVR of 3, departing Intel at xx.30 and Ringsend at anything between xx.57 and xx.05.

To rewind:

C1/C2: Phibsboro core with Ringsend support, RSD will operate the night service.

C3/C4/C5/C6: Ringsend core (with PHB support?).

52: Ringsend.

L51/L52: Ballymount.

26, L53, L54: Conyngham Road.

L58, L59: Phibsboro.

1, 120: Broadstone.

15A/B/D: Summerhill.

P29 and X25-X31: most likely a mix of Phibsboro, Broadstone, and Harristown, as these three operate the current 25D, 25X, 66X, and 67X.

Buffman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118156740#Comment_118156740

Ye, I get where they're coming from with frequency/radial route and that's evident with the 26, but the 52 route is so close to the other C routes that I think it would have been simpler for 'Joe Public' if it had a C number or even an X number as it's essentially an all day 'X' route bypassing Lucan village.

TranslatorPS

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118157331#Comment_118157331

The point of the loosely numbered radials is that they're meant to be loosely scheduled gap fillers - not coordinated with the nearby spines. The 6 brought about the same arguments of "why isn't it a H?" back in June-July. Nine buses per hour isn't possible neatly on a clockface. Their function will become far more apparent when there are multiple radials introduced per phase, and not just one like now.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118157331#Comment_118157331

The whole point of the Spine routes is that they are scheduled in such a way to provide an even headway along the core section of the route.

It’s impossible to do that with an hourly route like the 52.

Peregrine

The C-spine announcement and the incomplete info have been on the TFI website for two days now. It still says "Timetables for other phase 2 routes coming soon".

That's a really bad way to announce changes to bus services.

They're even sharing it on social media and linking people to a page that doesn't have all the information yet.

Qrt

promotional fare of €2.30 for the 90-minute fare, cheaper fare for under 3km, heard it on the radio there

Stevek101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118168207#Comment_118168207

1-3 slight increase to €1.60 with stages 4-13+ going to €2.50 (90 Minute fare) from end March 2022. It'll be €2.30 until then.

thomasj

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118168468#Comment_118168468

Will the new 2.30 90 minute fare be the same on luas and commuter rail/dart? Or will you still have to pay existing fares in that case?

Stevek101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118168734#Comment_118168734

Luas Zone 1 €1.60, Zone 2-8 €2.50 (with promotional fare until March).

Irish Rail Zone 1 €1.60, Zone 2-4 €2.50 and all others remaining the same. There is another determination due next year not sure what that'll mean for this 90 minute zone. Xpresso and Nitelink remaining the same but will also get 90 minute transfers.

AngryLips

The price difference versus other cities is eye watering.

loyatemu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118168794#Comment_118168794

so presumably you get a train from Greystones to Pearse (4.90) you can then transfer onto a bus or Luas for nothing? What about in the other direction, how does that work?

Stevek101

https://about.leapcard.ie/tfi-90-minute-fare

loyatemu

so if I get a bus service to (say) Pearse for €2.30 then transfer onto a Dart to Greystones; at the end of the journey my Leap account will be adjusted to charge €4.90 (the Dart fare) for the full 90 minute journey?

Disappointing it doesn't cover the whole Short Hop Zone. Surely wouldn't have cost much in the grand scheme of things and would have kept it simple.

devnull

A dedicated thread has now been set-up to discuss the fare changes that will be formally announced shortly

TFI Fare Revisions from 28th November - New 90 minute fare included. — boards.ie - Now Ye're Talkin'

OscarMIlde

Is there anywhere with the new X25 and X26 timetables? Booklets on the buses this morning but no information on frequency bar that they are only operational at peak times Mon-Fri. I'm a bit worried as the 67X replacements seem to no longer go as far as Maynooth, and there are only a few 66X buses that extend to Maynooth in the evening. Given the C3 and C4 don't seem terribly frequent I can see the commute home getting a lot longer if there isn't an increase in the number of buses provided.