BusConnects Dublin - Big changes to Bus Network

pk1991

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118145724#Comment_118145724

That's fair. Ideally there should be a single website and app for anything travel related. The TFI website just links to the operator website. In Sydney, for example, there is 1 app and 1 website for bus, tram, train and ferry despite the operators being different. There is only 1 Facebook, Twitter etc. too for any cuistomer queries.

One can dream!

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118145825#Comment_118145825

Well I think it’s more intuitive with the N suffix to be honest, than a totally different number. That’s kind of standard the English speaking world over for night routes! :-)

TranslatorPS

I think I've said it before, but I also support C3N and C4N over C5 and C6.

Re: stop flag argument - from the very beginning I've thought that the Dublin city network operated by DB and GAI should be brought together under some sort of an umbrella term, or the operator distinction should be abolished altogether on stop flags like it has been done on numerous stops installed with the Dec 2019 Commuter Operator change.

Stevek101

I'm surprised the new fares haven't gotten out yet. I seen some mention of a +3km / 90 Minute fare and sub 3km short hop. That'll push most journeys into the 90 minute which I presume will be €2.50 and possibly €2 for short? Will mean both the €1.55 and $2.25 will be seeing a price increase.

Citrus_8

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118146900#Comment_118146900

If it's really a 3km, I'd be looking at 1.50 rather than 2 Euro. Ideally, it should 5km 1.5 Euro and over 2 Euro. But I think we will end up with now 2.5 Euro the more expensive, possibly in future getting lower, subject to careless politicians' approval.

LXFlyer

My understanding is that the 3km thing came from someone reading an NTA document which didn’t really explain the minutiae of how this will actually work in practice. I remain to be convinced that it will be measured that way.

I suspect (and this is very much a guess on my part) that the staged fares will be maintained, but will be much less relevant with only two fare options - a 1-3 stage “short” fare, and then a second fare which would be the 90 minute fare. The latter would be accessed via the right hand validator and the former from the driver’s machine.

We will find out next week!

Incidentally monthly and annual ticket prices remain unchanged for 2022.

p_haugh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118146900#Comment_118146900

The New fares determination will be announced on the 15th November (so 5 days), with for definate the new fare structure related to Dublin launching with the C-Spine on the 28th. New fares for the rest of PSO operations in the country could be changed on this date as well, given previous fare changes usually happened on the first weekend of December.

Stevek101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118147007#Comment_118147007

I think its mad the tax savers will remain unchanged. They are going to be really poor value going forward.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118147157#Comment_118147157

Why?

The vast majority of people commuting are making single journeys and even where they are connecting there was the €1 discount.

Someone paying 40% tax gets unlimited bus travel for a month for EUR 70 effectively - that’s still much cheaper than using LEAP daily, and those paying 20% pays EUR 104 which is again cheaper.

The 90-minute ticket is undoubtedly a nice thing to have, but for the vast majority of commuters it’s not going to be a game changer as they’re already using monthly/annual tickets.

L1011

I'd presume the all mode taxsavers will converge in price with the single and dual modes, was already going a bit that way in the most recent adjudication

Stevek101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118147313#Comment_118147313

Not much good if you aren't in the 40%.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118147412#Comment_118147412

It’s still cheaper as it is right now.

But let’s be honest many people in the 40% bracket are far less likely to use public transport and they need to be encouraged to do so.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118147324#Comment_118147324

I’d expect that too. Probably next year.

Lifelike

The bus timetables for the C1 to C4 routes have been published here https://www.transportforireland.ie/c-spine/ and the C5, C6 and revised 26 timetable are here https://www.transportforireland.ie/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/Chapelizod-Insert.FIN3_.pdf.

Regarding the night routes it appears as if the NTA has sacrificed a little bit of simplicity for a better overall service which is a good thing in my view. It could arguably be said that adding an N suffix to the C3 and C4 but not the C1 and C2 could lead to confusion in other ways.

devnull

Few more details found on the NTA website here, above what was on the DB site:

https://www.transportforireland.ie/c-spine/

On the 28th November, the TFI 90 Minute Fare will be introduced. This alongside the short fare will streamline TFI Leap Card fares in the Dublin Area.

Peregrine

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118148427#Comment_118148427

Ooh, that has timetables for C1, C2, C3 and C4!

Edit: Oops, didn't see the post above. Sorry, Lifelike!

The dot in that timetable link was causing issues. Here it is again: https://www.transportforireland.ie/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/Chapelizod-Insert.FIN3_.pdf

L1011

The huge areas of celbridge and leixlip that go from a few random X services (Aghards in celbridge) or at best one an hour (66E land in leixlip) are the winners here, over and above the 24h service. Both towns have huge car usage due to bad 80s planning, this will give people the tools to change

Hotblack Desiato

I think by "bad 80s planning" you mean "corrupt 80s planning". The ghost of Liam Lawlor lives on.

markodaly

Sorry if this has been asked before, but is the new rollout of BuConnects also incorporating the new dedicated bus and cycle lanes? Or is that coming later?

LXFlyer

They will come later.

They require planning applications to An Bord Pleanála, which are supposed to be made in the not too distant future.

HouseEater

How come the express buses (e.g. X28, X28) are not showing up on the maps?

https://www.transportforireland.ie/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/Big-Picture-Map-Phase-2-16.10.21.pdf

LXFlyer

Presumably they will add them in due course in a separate section - they've yet to put those timetables up.

AngryLips

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118147427#Comment_118147427

I'm sorry, I have to call you out on the assertion that taxsaver is in anyway good value. Fact is the cost saving only kicks in for a person in the following scenario:

• Someone in the 40% tax bracket making a long-distance/multi-modal journey/journey requiring a service change - and that person would need to commute at least 4 days a week.

For anyone else, the cost doesn't stack up. Let's take a DB commuter making a two-way daily journey costing €2.25 each way and who is on the 40% tax. Ticket net of tax will be €696. The per-week cost of that ticket, less 4 weeks AL and - let's just say - an extra two week to account for public holidays and/or sick days (I believe the average number of sick days people take is about 8 a year), works out at €15.13 per week. That person will still need to commute at least four days a week in order to realise value on their choice to get a taxsaver DB ticket over the alternative of just using their leap card every day. The savings envelope on taxsaver is tiny.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118149362#Comment_118149362

Given FFFG's attitude to transport infrastructure in Dublin, "later" = "never"

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118150062#Comment_118150062

Bear in mind that it was designed for people commuting 5 days a week.

Working from home is a relatively new phenomenon and certainly was t around when they were launched.

In that context I will say that 4 weeks x 5 x 2 x 2.25 is EUR 90 which compares well with EUR 70.

But, even allowing for not working every day in the office, you are also predicating your argument on using it only for work.

What about leisure trips? Most people do go out and about aside from work.

I’ll make trips at weekends, I might use it to go to the shops, or go out for a pint. That all adds up too!

That’s the context in which I was talking.

Spanish Eyes

It's looking good IMV.

One thing someone may know... are the C spines eventually going to use Rosie Hackett Bridge for the right turn to get to Townsend Street and beyond? I see on the TFI map that they are currently to use the right turn on O'Connell Bridge. But maybe that's going to happen sometime soon.

bk

I think it reflects very well on the project that there is so little comment about the new C routes and instead the focus seems to be on taxsaver and the new 90 minute ticket.

The H routes went relatively smoothly too. Hopefully all the others do too.

BTW I was just thinking will we see an end to the old "City Center only" buses like the 16C, 1C, etc.? Or could we end up seeing buses like C1C, C2C, etc.?

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118152295#Comment_118152295

Well, the short city centre workings generally happen where there is no driver available to take over at the handover point in the city centre. That's still going to happen from time to time.

Many of the cross-city routes already see the last buses going the length of the route.

As to the general reaction, most of the public aren't aware of it just yet. Wait until it actually rolls out. It will be interesting to see how people react in the circumstances where a change is now required. The fact that the local buses are going to be fairly frequent should make that less of an issue.

OscarMIlde

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118152295#Comment_118152295

If the 66X and 67X replacements are going through Lucan village there will be uproar. The Maynooth/Leixlip/Celbridge routes are already too long. Busconnects should have aimed to reduce journey times on commuter services, by allowing more direct buses, instead of creating even longer, more meandering routes.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118153196#Comment_118153196

Well why didn't you look at the BusConnects website to answer that rather than going on that rant?

All of the information about the routes has been in the public domain since September 2020.

https://busconnects.ie/media/2022/lucan-area-map.pdf

Three routes will go via Lucan Village - the services starting at River Forest (X31), Castletown (X32) and Adamstown (via Dodsboro) (X30).

All of the other peak/express routes will use the bypass.

The C3 and C4 (replacing the 66 and 67) will both use the Chapelizod bypass so I think on balance that the residents of Celbridge and Maynooth are getting a good deal here.